Did anyone else get one of these surveys about lane conditions, bowling equipment? you should check your e-mail to see if you got one. It asked a lot of questions about whether bowling was challenging enough, whether lane conditions are too easy. What is everyone's take on this survey? was it good enough? any questions you would have asked, not asked? did you even get it? do you think they will really use it's results to a positive end?

I think they are just confirming on paper what everyone already thinks. There's no way they don't know what bowlers have been saying about league vs. pro lane conditions, resin balls/dynamic cores being too strong, 2 handed good or bad etc... I would like to have seen more detailed questions about ball durability, which is arguably not as good anymore.

If it was actually that easy, it would already be happening, would it not? 

Quote from: tommygn on April 20, 2017, 02:28:14 PM

You would have to run tapes of the lanes proving the pattern, and be subject to spot checks and verification. If you are found out of compliance, all honor scores that were bowled for the season are subsequently deemed illegitimate. Basically, you make a punishment for failure to comply a "worth while" reason to stay in compliance. If all of sudden, you have league bowlers loosing their "award-able scores" because the bowling center wants to cheat, well then you will have some very angry bowlers and that would affect the proprietors bottom line. If you affect money, you will see centers staying in compliance.

I don't agree that it would be "impossible" to enforce.

It could be, if the USBC would actually take the time to fix some of the real issues that are affecting bowling, instead of these ridiculous issues like hiding the patterns, and not allowing practice on lanes before bowling.

Fix what the real problems are.

Sorry people, but when 12 year old kids are "out scoring" adults, you can't market that to corporate America as a "good" thing, and show that bowling has integrity, and then sell the product. When you watch someone bowl, you should be able to tell if they are a professional, or an amateur, and their score should reflect that. Today, it's the other way around, your score says if you are good or not, even though people that can score, can't hit the same spot twice in three games.

I have to disagree.  League bowling is much different from tournament bowling.  The idea that all league bowling has to have "integrity" and has to be on shots that "keep you honest" and form and mechanics should indicate skill simply isn't true.  Bowling is suffering because no one is having fun anymore.  It's become a collection of stiffs, egos, elitists who try to be as condescending and judgmental as possible.  I wholeheartedly disagree that league conditions should be made harder.  The USBC member average is something like 175, but for some reason everyone, themselves included, think it should only be about the scratch bowler, and that's the only demographic they care about.  If conditions get harder, you make 10% of the membership base happy and piss the other 90% off.  I can't imagine telling leagues full of 170-200 average bowlers that bowl for fun once a week that the conditions are now being made harder and are going to be enforced.  If there's a sure way to kill off league bowling and drive USBC into bankruptcy, that's it. 

Quote from: ITZPS on April 20, 2017, 02:32:36 PM

If it was actually that easy, it would already be happening, would it not? 

Quote from: tommygn on April 20, 2017, 02:28:14 PM

You would have to run tapes of the lanes proving the pattern, and be subject to spot checks and verification. If you are found out of compliance, all honor scores that were bowled for the season are subsequently deemed illegitimate. Basically, you make a punishment for failure to comply a "worth while" reason to stay in compliance. If all of sudden, you have league bowlers loosing their "award-able scores" because the bowling center wants to cheat, well then you will have some very angry bowlers and that would affect the proprietors bottom line. If you affect money, you will see centers staying in compliance.

I don't agree that it would be "impossible" to enforce.

It could be, if the USBC would actually take the time to fix some of the real issues that are affecting bowling, instead of these ridiculous issues like hiding the patterns, and not allowing practice on lanes before bowling.

Fix what the real problems are.

Sorry people, but when 12 year old kids are "out scoring" adults, you can't market that to corporate America as a "good" thing, and show that bowling has integrity, and then sell the product. When you watch someone bowl, you should be able to tell if they are a professional, or an amateur, and their score should reflect that. Today, it's the other way around, your score says if you are good or not, even though people that can score, can't hit the same spot twice in three games.

Just because something is happening at the same time something else is doesn't mean it's a cause or contribution.  This is the scratch bowler mindset because it's all that matters to them.  Bowling isn't declining because we're losing scratch bowlers, we're losing casual bowlers.  Scratch bowlers are the ones sticking around complaining about all this.  The die hards will always be around no matter what.  Membership hasn't dropped this far because we lost all the scratch bowlers.  Bowling is expensive and time consuming, and with so many other places for time and money to go, bowling has become not worth it for those who weren't that into it in the first place. 

I'll never understand the idea that making bowler harder and more competitive and more serious is the solution to bringing in new casual bowlers or bringing back those who have quit. 

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.

Scores keep getting higher and higher, yet we keep loosing bowlers. We encourage people to throw it "anyway" they want, yet we keep loosing bowlers.

Seems insane to me. Just my .02

Quote from: Olderdude on April 20, 2017, 01:53:01 PM

Enforcement could be an issue, but if a league says we are a rec league there is nothing to enforce.  If a league says we are a "though pattern" league then local associations should randomly check the league/center for compliance. We pay the local association too and at least here they don't do much.

Center owners need to be held responsible.  They created the problem by going soft patterns thus taking us down this rabbit hole.  They are members of the BPAA and that could/should be an enforcement arm.

If they (USBC) are trying to change things based on this survey than I applaud them. 

just my 2 cents

How is this any different than what was done when sport shot leagues first came about?  If given the option, bowlers will not consistently bowl on more difficult shots.

As far as center owners/managers causing this issue, I can't see that.  ABC set the standard years ago and the center owners/managers are still abiding by those rules.

It's not any different, that's why it should be able to be done

ABC/USBC change the requirement from what I remember because the owners wanted more bowlers and lax standards

League participation isn't in the crapper because of lane conditions or anything the USBC has done or hasn't done or will try to do.  Participation is down because 90% of bowling centers are terribly run business'.  They are still run by people that think league bowlers are just going to sign up because you put a schedule on the counter, and most haven't been cleaned since 1989.

Absolutely the best point in this whole thread.  That's exactly the reason. 

League participation isn't in the crapper because of lane conditions or anything the USBC has done or hasn't done or will try to do.  Participation is down because 90% of bowling centers are terribly run business'.  They are still run by people that think league bowlers are just going to sign up because you put a schedule on the counter, and most haven't been cleaned since 1989.

When we realize that the GAME of bowling is laughable at best and the SPORT of bowling is something that will probably never catch on with our generation since we're all a bunch of entitled aholes and need to have our frail egos tended to by phony inflated numbers that make us feel better about who we are, the better.