I did the survey and filled it out like a scratch bowler would.
But this is a topic thats been discussed so much.
My thoughts:

1) Bowling industry is in decline because of factors that have nothing to do with bowling. Pay people more, give them some less hours to work, and they'll be heading out bowling more, and to movies more and other things...

2) People vote with their money. Sport bowling leagues are NOT popular. I only bowl in sport shot league in summer and then rest of year, is the break and do tournaments when can. I wish they were more popular, I love bowling in my summer league, but just stating fact.

3) Scratch bowlers who want to bowl on hard conditions are frequenting these message boards, not the typical 170 - 200 bowler.

4) Two handed bowling. Being realistic, if you're a 9 year old kid and try throwing one handed, and then see some 10 year old next to you blowing away the wrack 2 handed, what are you going to do? Two handed bowling significantly reduces learning curve and physical skills needed to have a pretty hook. I'm sure it makes things more exciting for youth bowlers, therefore it's good for industry.

That pretty two handed hook that a newbie can learn in a month, will be going all over the place on a sport shot, but whatever, that's besides the point.

5) It would have been simple for the USBC and bowling proprietors to prevent the problem of out of controlling scoring, then to reverse it. 200 avg. bowlers will not be happy to learn that they are really at 170. These no solution to this from pin weight, changing lane oils, changing ball specs... that doesn't lead to lower scores. How lower scores will help the bowling industry isn't a mystery to me.

The only solution is clearer differentiation between sport bowling, and recreation bowling, and to stop treating recreation bowling, as if it's sport bowling.

It shouldn't matter to the competitive scratch bowling if people have fun with an inflated recreation average. I think what does matter is when the 220 avg bowling can't do real bowling b/c he's crowded out by all the recreation stuff.

If 90% of bowling was recreation and 10% sport that would be ok. But when it's more than 99% rec. and you have to search hard for any sport then you have a problem.

If this is what bowlers want, then vote with your dollars.
I spend money on my sport shot league, lots of practice, on bowling lessons, and sport shot tournaments. I do NOT pay $30 a week to bowl 3 games on a house shot, for 36 weeks, nor will I pay $100+ to bowling in a "modified house shot" tournament.
Not that I'm trying to influence bowling industry, this is simply what I'm interested in paying.

Sorry if I am getting a little crochety in my old age but I have been listening to and having these arguments for 40 years.  To the guy who is tired if getting beat by a guy throwing it all over the lane.  If it us so easy just throw it like the guy who us beating you. 

What people really don't like on house shots is that the other guy has a release that matches up better.  From a competitive point if view the game is the best shape ever thanks to the technology of lane conditioning.  Versatility is the only true test for upper echelon bowlers, and the industry is more capable if supplying that versatility than ever before. 

As for league nothing wrong with the THS.  It provides plenty of challenge for 90% of bowlers.   Most of the guys who think the THS is too easy, really mean it is too easy for the other guy.

Turning too the decline in league participation, it has never been about people quitting, but about not enough young people starting to replace us old guys. The reasons for this are many, but go way beyond scoring levels.

 

Sorry if I am getting a little crochety in my old age but I have been listening to and having these arguments for 40 years.  To the guy who is tired if getting beat by a guy throwing it all over the lane.  If it us so easy just throw it like the guy who us beating you. 

What people really don't like on house shots is that the other guy has a release that matches up better.  From a competitive point if view the game is the best shape ever thanks to the technology of lane conditioning.  Versatility is the only true test for upper echelon bowlers, and the industry is more capable if supplying that versatility than ever before. 

As for league nothing wrong with the THS.  It provides plenty of challenge for 90% of bowlers.   Most of the guys who think the THS is too easy, really mean it is too easy for the other guy.

Turning too the decline in league participation, it has never been about people quitting, but about not enough young people starting to replace us old guys. The reasons for this are many, but go way beyond scoring levels.

Last time I checked, Pete Weber, Walter Ray Williams Jr, Norm Duke, David Ozio, etc.... has never shot a 900 series. I guess they should throw it like league bowlers who have.   

>>I don't see how making bowling less fun is the way to increase participation . .

So you only have "fun" if you are bowling a high game score? You don't bowl for the challenge? You don't bowl in tough tournaments like your city's Masters?

If bowling was still considered a challenging sport, it would get more press, more sponsorship dollars, have a real PBA TOUR and be in the Olympics.

However, when Joe Bowler can out average Pete Pro on paper, bowling doesn't stand a chance.

They are only having fun if they are shooting high scores because they "love" bowling so much and just want to have fun, but it's me that has the problem, because I want some integrity by adding tiers, LOL!!


Ability should dictate score, not score dictate ability. EVERY single other sport except maybe auto racing, this is true, but bowling, it is not.

At least one person understands what I'm trying to say.

High individual games and series have never been a measure of talent in thus game.  Back in the rubber ball era a local St Louis amateur named Elvin Mesger had more 300s than Carter Weber Bluth or any pro.  In our own little association our city record at the time of 837 was set in 1980 by a guy who didn't even bowl scratch leagues.  It has always been that way. 

High individual games and series have never been a measure of talent in thus game.  Back in the rubber ball era a local St Louis amateur named Elvin Mesger had more 300s than Carter Weber Bluth or any pro.  In our own little association our city record at the time of 837 was set in 1980 by a guy who didn't even bowl scratch leagues.  It has always been that way. 

... Still doesn't make it right.


Women used to not be allowed to vote, and we used to have segregation because of skin color. Glad someone saw the error of societies ways when it came to those issues.

A local amatuer shot 59 in a tournament last year.  Top high school players routinely put up 65 in golf tournaments.  Never yet heard a PGA pro complain about such scores being an assault in the integrity if the game.  That kind of stuff seems to be reserved for bowlers who blame the lanes when they get beat

Aren't golf courses rated by how easy or hard they are???

Were those score shot by those amateurs at Augusta??

Quote from: avabob on April 21, 2017, 11:59:36 AM

Here is how I feel about scoring.  Quite a few guys can out score me on a house shot.  I can outscore a lot of them on some sport patterns.  Neither fact proves anything.  I am probably one of the more versatile bowlers in our area.  However on any pattern, including a house shit there is often somebody who can beat me. Game has always been that way and I know if no way to change it

Easy, tiered and rated bowling centers.

That doesn't affect any part of his statement.  It's like you had a response ready to go before he even said anything.