I couldn't find TJ's first show (3rd appearance), but you can see how their games have refined from their first starts:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAfaz4JmZpI&t=499s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTshW5Yu6P0&t=864s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTshW5Yu6P0&t=864s

John's problems are more upstairs, he's very cerebral, will be a very good coach or ball rep or something.  Just because a guy throws it good doesn't mean success is automatic. 

Quote from: Good Times Good Times on April 26, 2018, 10:00:47 AM

But as a bowler that is a "shot-maker" and relies on accuracy, isn't the burden on me to adjust?  I've never really been one to put much care into how others deliver the ball.....I've just always thought it was on me to deal with it.  I adjust to the conditions, the conditions don't adjust to me.  If I need to play up the twig, so be it.  If I need to get in to 5th arrow +, so be it.

Nice idea in theory, when it isn't your job, and you see guys whiffing shots way worse than you, and beating you, and there is only so very little money to go around as it is.

It's a SAD day when a bowler who throws it as good as John Szczerbinski decides to not bowl on the tour anymore. Oh and when Randy Pedersen degrades him on his last telecast saying he doesn't have a high enough rev rate. Just sayin

Belmo should be the poster boy of the modern era. He's leading the way of an exciting revolution that's driving up youth participation. He's a top class professional on and off the lane and he has a work ethic (most important) that should be modeled by any aspiring professional. He's an extreme outlier and a physical marvel to the game much like those at the top of other sports. What he's doing at his level (and winning all across the world) can't be replicated because it's much more than just creating more revs. His success is a whole sum of dedication, tens of thousands of hours of practice, the sacrifice of spending little time with your family in order to support them with a great future, and a clear & open mind to trying new things. I saw Belmo in Vegas once, practicing one handed and he was just as sharp technically.

This *governing the delivery argument* is ridiculous. Tommy, your personal gripe with two handed bowling is affecting your logic. If there's any anything that needs to be amended in the sport* of bowling it should be on the things that remain constant, which is the playing field. Oil/lane surface/pins/equipment. The lane machine can shut out any style, the shotmakers will still rise to the top. As soon as you go around telling people how they can & can't, should & shouldn't deliver the ball across the foul line I have to just shut my ears off to this. It's nonsense.

I remember hearing from my high school coaches that decades prior, the basketball purists saying that the slam dunk would ruin the sport of basketball forever. Now it's the number 2 sport worldwide. Not everyone participating in it can slam dunk a ball, but they can still compete, love the game and not try to take away something physically from elite outliers because it's not based in tradition. Real sports evolve and with that evolution comes technique. I guess bowling will just never get to that designation.

*=edit

Belmo should be the poster boy of the modern era. He's leading the way of an exciting revolution that's driving up youth participation. He's a top class professional on and off the lane and he has a work ethic (most important) that should be modeled by any aspiring professional. He's an extreme outlier and a physical marvel to the game much like those at the top of other sports. What he's doing at his level (and winning all across the world) can't be replicated because it's much more than just creating more revs. His success is a whole sum of dedication, tens of thousands of hours of practice, the sacrifice of spending little time with your family in order to support them with a great future, and a clear & open mind to trying new things. I saw Belmo in Vegas once, practicing one handed and he was just as sharp technically.

This *governing the delivery argument* is ridiculous. Tommy, your personal gripe with two handed bowling is affecting your logic. If there's any anything that needs to be amended in the sport* of bowling it should be on the things that remain constant, which is the playing field. Oil/lane surface/pins/equipment. The lane machine can shut out any style, the shotmakers will still rise to the top. As soon as you go around telling people how they can & can't, should & shouldn't deliver the ball across the foul line I have to just shut my ears off to this. It's nonsense.

I remember hearing from my high school coaches that decades prior, the basketball purists saying that the slam dunk would ruin the sport of basketball forever. Now it's the number 2 sport worldwide. Not everyone participating in it can slam dunk a ball, but they can still compete, love the game and not try to take away something physically from elite outliers because it's not based in tradition. Real sports evolve and with that evolution comes technique. I guess bowling will just never get to that designation.

*=edit

The numbers of youth participation growing are misleading. They are based on Junior Gold participation and many of the junior tournaments that kids now have today, that were not there yester-year.

Participation at the LEAGUE level for youth bowling is declining, and still declining, and has been declining. It has suffered the same fate as adult bowling.

At some point, you aren't going to have enough junior league bowlers, to fill the Junior Golds. You must be using the Chad Murphy rose colored glasses projection model.

in my 21 years of coaching youth bowling, we have yet to have ONE junior bowler show up and bowl who NEVER bowled before, because they saw two handed bowling on TV. Not one.

in my 21 years of coaching youth bowling, we have yet to have ONE junior bowler show up and bowl who NEVER bowled before, because they saw two handed bowling on TV. Not one.

Cause new youth bowlers just don't show up to league period. They need a parent + income to even participate.

Quote from: tommygn on April 26, 2018, 11:07:24 AM

Quote from: Good Times Good Times on April 26, 2018, 10:00:47 AM

But as a bowler that is a "shot-maker" and relies on accuracy, isn't the burden on me to adjust?  I've never really been one to put much care into how others deliver the ball.....I've just always thought it was on me to deal with it.  I adjust to the conditions, the conditions don't adjust to me.  If I need to play up the twig, so be it.  If I need to get in to 5th arrow +, so be it.

Nice idea in theory, when it isn't your job, and you see guys whiffing shots way worse than you, and beating you, and there is only so very little money to go around as it is.

It's a SAD day when a bowler who throws it as good as John Szczerbinski decides to not bowl on the tour anymore. Oh and when Randy Pedersen degrades him on his last telecast saying he doesn't have a high enough rev rate. Just sayin

I'll just ask bluntly:  Would you support legislation banning two-handed bowling?

First, I want to see rules regulating conditions from the USBC, since they are regulating balls. I have always stated that you can't have one without the other, there needs to be a concert of both together. They had the perfect chance to do something with the red, white and blue program, and add some integrity back into scoring. Allow those to bowl red pattern, but no awards, no recognition, just go have fun, but be understanding that you won't be rewarded because it is basically "mini-golf". White pattern, you still get your ring a year, but have to at least make reasonable shots to score. Blue pattern is a staging area the is used to provide you the experience for PBA competition.

Set a maximum left to right ratio (again, not trying to make people bowl the US Open, just setting a guideline to follow), so as to force some semblance of uniformity.

Set a maximum volume to viscosity ratio for the oil that is allowed.

If you set parameters on the viscosity and volumes, you then will lock the ball manufactures into a maximum hook potential, and then a rule for cover stock "porosity" makes some sense.

That is how you reign in release strengths. If a bowler can't keep the ball on the correct side of the head pin, they will modify, and adapt.

As far as the two handed delivery, that ship has already sailed unfortunately, but if there were to be legislation on it, I think Tom Smallwood removing the off hand before the ball clears the hip is a good point to define a legal delivery. You can no thumb it, one finger it, whatever, as long as you are not able to use the non swing side hand to aid in control of the ball after passing the hip through and up to release.

Let's all bowl on 40ft 1:1 gutter to gutter patterns ...... I'd relish the challenge.  600 would be a monster score.

Take away the oil ramps and free hook spots !! - Problem solved !!

This is my general sentiment, for better or worse. 

I'll just ask bluntly:  Would you support legislation banning two-handed bowling?

NO.

 But, I am jaded.

 My son, who no longer bowls, and who only bowled in one league, part time, with me is quite a natural two hander.

 Back before Belmonte and Palermaa, there was my son. He went to practice with me, and wanted to bowl too. Since he didn’t have his own ball, he threw mine. It was too heavy for him, so he just put his fingers in the finger holes, held it with both hands, and threw it almost textbook good for a two hander.

 Trust me, Belmo is much more practiced than my son, but not any more natural at it.

 He was having fun, and starting to want to get more involved. I signed him and myself up for a junior/adult league that summer.

 Sadly, those who didn’t end up making fun if his style, usually ended up accusing him of cheating. Not only was he beating ALL of the juniors (including the “God’s gift to bowling” silver level coaches son), but he was also beating 2/3 of the adult bowlers in the league. Including me.

 You would think adults would be above some of the things some of them said to and about him and his “illegal” style. I had to actually send in a video to get approval for his style to shut them up.

 He lost interest after that year. He said he was tired of hearing and putting up with every bodies crap when all he wanted to do was bowl naturally and have fun.


 I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF YOU RUN TO THE LINE BACKWARDS DOING CARTWHEELS, AS LONG AS YOU DONT FOUL OR DAMAGE THE EQUIPMENT!

 I want your best. I want you to HAVE to give me your best, and I don’t give a rats ass what your best is. I want to bring the best out in you, then beat you anyway, and if I can’t, I will shake your hand, and tell you there will be a next time, and you better bring your best back with you, cause I will, and I’ll beat your ass if you don’t.

 You want to limit the technology? I have NO PROBLEM with that. In fact, I would enact much harsher limits than they are currently talking about.

 You want to limit physical ability? You are out of your damn minds if that’s what you want. If that is you, then you have NO PLACE in competitive bowling, and only serve to bring people of possibly superior ability down to your level when you SHOULD be aspiring to reach theirs.

 You think PDW fears Belmo? How about PB III, or W.R.W.? I think not.
 They are not scared of his two handed style. If YOU are, you are the problem.

 The rules are what the rules are. You guys don’t make them, but some of you sure seem to scream and cry whenever they come up with something you don’t like or agree with. I was finally forced to see the problem wasn’t the changes, the problem was my myopic outlook on them, and many of you need to do the same now.

 I had to realize, and admit, that the truly greats were able to make the adjustments into the modern era and, if I couldn’t, that meant it wasn’t the changes, it was ME! If they could do it, then I could too!

 IF YOU DONT LIKE THE DAMN RULES, THEN STFU AND QUIT.

 If you don’t want to quit, then STFU AND BOWL.


P. S. Yes, I am the guy who will turn you in for using illegal equipment with balance holes in them after the date has passed. I don’t cheat, and I won’t let you either.