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Author Topic: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?  (Read 15401 times)

Mighty Fish

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USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« on: June 29, 2013, 05:21:09 PM »
The United States Bowling Congress (USBC) was formed in 2005 by a merger of the American Bowling Congress, Women's International Bowling Congress, Young American Bowling Alliance, and USA Bowling.

AFTER EIGHT YEARS, has the national governing body made any positive strides in any of the following categories?

Have there been any improvements in ...

* providing recognition for award achievements?
* league services?
* enforcement of rules and regulations?
* spending of membership dues?
* creating a better image for the game?
* promoting the game in a worthwhile manner?
* realistic cost-cutting measures?
* things that an average bowler/member would recognize?
* the USBC "System of Justice"?
* dealing with major problems?
* organizational pride?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

 

Mighty Fish

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2013, 05:23:26 PM »
I wasn't going to post this topic in this forum, but I decided to do so and "dedicate" the thread to Long Gone Daddy.

How about it, LGD? Care to comment in defense of USBC?

Long Gone Daddy

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2013, 05:39:08 PM »
I wasn't going to post this topic in this forum, but I decided to do so and "dedicate" the thread to Long Gone Daddy.

How about it, LGD? Care to comment in defense of USBC?

Didn't you get enough hanger-ons to respond to the same crap thread over at BBE.  You really are an attention whore when it comes to this vendetta you have against the USBC.  I'm sure it would be just perfect if you were in charge.

I pay my sanction fees at the beginning of the year.  I don't care if it's $15 or $20, I don't care what it is, its a once a year fee.  My league's get sanctioned and more importantly, the prize money is bonded.  That's all I care about.  I could care less about the little pissant trivial crap that you like to get involved in and obviously gives you a chubby.  I could care less about the awards, except the rings, even though I opt to give the money to cancer research since my Mom died of breast cancer.  I just don't give a shit about the trivial matters that you insist on bringing up.  You're nothing but a hack with nothing to do but be a gadfly about the USBC, always complaining but never offering solutions.  I know you've alienated everyone in your local association so you have no chance of ever being elected a delegate to try to enact change at the National convention.  So you're stuck outside looking in, shaking your fist in ineffective rage, at a situation that isn't as bad as you percieve it and you can't do shit about anyway. 

So take your dedication and file it away with all your other useless endeavors.     
Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

kidlost2000

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2013, 05:53:07 PM »
The USBC was suppose to save money and get rid of duplicate positions ect. It has in no way cut down on its spending and salaries.

So in that sense it is failed.

It made alcohol consumption available at its national tournament. For serious bowlers its not a factor. For the casual bowlers that go I guess it is nice to drink away your pains.


Other then that nothing has changed. It isn't a success,  it isn't a failure, its a wash.



…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Mighty Fish

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2013, 05:53:44 PM »
Dear Long Gone Daddy:

You are wrong again. Even though I have never served on my local association's board of directors, I HAVE BEEN A DELEGATE TO THE NATIONAL CONVENTION, and further, many of my legislative proposals and ideas have been enacted into the ABC/USBC rule book.

Thanks for your comments, and I don't have to resort to name-calling and insulting remarks in response to you (as you apparently feel the need to do in response to me).

And if I'm such a "hack" as a journalist, how do you explain that I have won national awards for my bowling writing (and that I've had articles published in national magazines, PBA yearbooks and other national publications)?

Long Gone Daddy

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2013, 07:32:54 PM »
All in your mind, hack, all in your mind.  Toodles.
Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

Mighty Fish

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2013, 07:56:08 PM »
All in your mind, hack, all in your mind.  Toodles.
The truth is in my mind, but apparently it isn't always in yours. Have a good weekend.

avabob

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2013, 12:12:35 PM »
Not sure I am qualified, or even know the answers to the question posed.  What I do know is that most of the really serious problems the game faces cannot be solved by any governing organization.

Gizmo823

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2013, 08:27:51 AM »
We have some lengthy USBC discussions on our local board about some of the things mentioned here.  I'm on the fence here (despite my letter and diatribe to USBC about lane conditions, which I'm sure LGD would have brought up had I not, I'm coming down off that soapbox back to reality, so by that admission, let's stick to topic here ok?).  While USBC has many problems, in the grand scheme of things, the majority of them aren't things that directly affect the bowlers, persay. 

USBC has 40 full time employees at headquarters, and for those 40 employees collectively, their annual salary is 8 million dollars. 

Of all the money received by Susan G. Komen, only about 10% of it goes to breast cancer research, the rest goes to their operating costs.  (and on an interesting side note, here's an article I came across last night http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/03/27/scientists-find-treatment-to-kill-every-kind-cancer-tumor/ )

USBC as of the 2014-2015 season has turned award purchase and distribution over to the local associations (though the cost is fairly minimal, it's still something) for everything but the major awards that you would fill out the award application for.  It will be nice to have control over the awards (we handed out just under 3000 awards to 1250 association members last season, which we consider fairly excessive), but having to pay for it all and order it all ourselves, with no reduction in USBC fees, begs the question why.  Their costs are being significantly reduced, (though their workload really isn't, they sub out nearly everything) but the bowlers are seing no return. 

I was going to include this in my lane certification video (and probably still will), but in the past, you would run the certification process and send the results into USBC (ABC, WIBC) and they would sanction you or they wouldn't.  Now, you go onto bowl.com, go under the center's sanction number, and there's a series of checkboxes.  As long as you click yes to all, you're sanctioned.  USBC sees no numbers, and they keep no records, so honestly, they have no clue whether lane certification is even being done, let alone whether your center passes or fails.  We do it as a service to our bowlers and our centers so they can keep everything in good repair.  However, if your centers don't want to spend the money or time, and the associations don't want to bother with the process, all they have to do is click some boxes and everything is good to go.  So if you have ever seen things at your center that you swear can't be right or can't meet specifications, you may honestly be onto something. 

So like LGD said, he pays his dues, and he gets what he wants out of it, keeps it pretty simple.  In all honesty he's right, it's a pretty small fee that's once a year, whatever else they do or don't do beyond that, he doesn't really concern himself with it.  However, a lot of these other things do matter to other people.  So while LGD may be getting what he wants out of the deal and is content with it, a lot of people aren't.  Then there are the people who are just bent over the principle of things and are concerned with what direction the USBC is going.  A lot of bowlers pay their dues and are starting to question what they're getting for those dues besides a couple magnets.  We honestly don't have very good answers for them, or at least not answers that really satisfy anyone. 

Again, I'm on the fence.  Like LGD, I pay dues, and I get what I want for it.  Even if it was just for sanctioning for the Open Championships, I'd be ok with it.  However, on the business side of it, it's hard not to have a big problem with how they're operating.  So to put it in a nutshell, just because you aren't affected by the problems doesn't mean there aren't problems, but if you aren't affected by the problems, why throw a fit about it?  Just like you may not be happy with how Walmart chooses to use the money you pay for their products, but if you're happy with the product, why does it really matter what they do with your money, it's not yours anymore anyway, you traded it for something that you're perfectly happy with, and as long as you consider it a good value, why worry about it? 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

txbowler

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #9 on: July 01, 2013, 02:35:07 PM »
Just in general, I think we as a membership like to complain, bitch and moan.  Maybe it is our right since we paid our dues. 

My opinion is the following.

There are 2 general classes of bowlers (with exceptions of course):

Competitive bowlers & casual bowlers

Average has nothing to do with which class you belong too.  I know guys who average 220 who are just there to drink beer with their buddies and don't care if they win or lose.  And I know 160 guys who live and die with every win or loss, as they are as competitive as they come.

I would guess, that over 75% of the USBC membership falls into the casual bowler category.  I would guess that 99% of this board falls into the competitive side.  Casual bowlers do not read web forums  :)

I would think that the things the casual bowler want from USBC are:

league money bonded

lower average bowler awards - If you have ever bowled with 100 -150 average bowlers, they love receiving a 200 game magnet.  yes, to a 200 average bowler of 30 years, it means little.  But to a 115 average bowler who happens to string some brooklyns and breaks 200 once a year, they want their magnet.

A rulebook that can be used to settle disputes.

Other than that - they probably don't care much about what USBC does

Other questions about lower costs and growth of bowling, the casual bowler doesn't care.

So why should the governing body worry about things that the majority of people it represents do not care about?

Well of course it promised those things when it was formed...

OK

One poster above says the 40 employees now earn 8 million.  If the office had remained in Wisc, would there be more employees or less?  What would the total salaries be?  No way to really tell. 


I guess for me personally, I do not expect a lot for only $20.  It's $20 whether I bowl 1 league or 7.  They have to insure every league & tournament I enter.  I have been in a league where the secretary stole the prize fund.  USBC bonding got us our $20,000 back. 

Other people have strong opinion about what USBC is doing wrong and how to fix it.  But they do not understand, or care about the costs to implement their ideas or consequences.

Or they just want to bitch moan and complain.

milorafferty

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2013, 02:52:42 PM »
Of the "bowlers" who bitch, moan and complain, how many of them put effort into making the sport of bowling better? I would wager it's not 1 in 500.
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Gizmo823

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2013, 03:06:51 PM »
Of the "bowlers" who bitch, moan and complain, how many of them put effort into making the sport of bowling better? I would wager it's not 1 in 500.

Most of whom don't know how or don't have the power to.  If I pay for a burger somewhere, and it comes out cold and not how I ordered it, is it my responsibility to go get a job there so I can make the burgers the right way? 

Now, I'm not arguing with you or even saying that you're wrong, because you're not, but objectivity requires taking an honest look from all sides.  If you're paying for something, as bowlers are, and you aren't getting what you paid for, you have a right to complain with zero obligation on your part to do anything more.  After all, your money is a contribution, a contribution that should allow those in power with the responsibility of making bowling better to do so. 

However, if people are really concerned enough to pout and moan about it like you said, they really should do more, because again, objectively, if you're unhappy with how things are going, and you think you could make a difference or contribute, do it!  Just throwing money in and saying, "well, I'm contributing," isn't going to make a difference if you're giving money to people you have no confidence in. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

milorafferty

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 03:09:02 PM »
Where in my post did I mention "business"??

I said the "sport of bowling", two completely different things.

Of the "bowlers" who bitch, moan and complain, how many of them put effort into making the sport of bowling better? I would wager it's not 1 in 500.

Most of whom don't know how or don't have the power to.  If I pay for a burger somewhere, and it comes out cold and not how I ordered it, is it my responsibility to go get a job there so I can make the burgers the right way? 

Now, I'm not arguing with you or even saying that you're wrong, because you're not, but objectivity requires taking an honest look from all sides.  If you're paying for something, as bowlers are, and you aren't getting what you paid for, you have a right to complain with zero obligation on your part to do anything more.  After all, your money is a contribution, a contribution that should allow those in power with the responsibility of making bowling better to do so. 

However, if people are really concerned enough to pout and moan about it like you said, they really should do more, because again, objectively, if you're unhappy with how things are going, and you think you could make a difference or contribute, do it!  Just throwing money in and saying, "well, I'm contributing," isn't going to make a difference if you're giving money to people you have no confidence in. 
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

Gizmo823

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2013, 03:23:43 PM »
Where in my post did I mention "business"??

I said the "sport of bowling", two completely different things.

Of the "bowlers" who bitch, moan and complain, how many of them put effort into making the sport of bowling better? I would wager it's not 1 in 500.

Most of whom don't know how or don't have the power to.  If I pay for a burger somewhere, and it comes out cold and not how I ordered it, is it my responsibility to go get a job there so I can make the burgers the right way? 

Now, I'm not arguing with you or even saying that you're wrong, because you're not, but objectivity requires taking an honest look from all sides.  If you're paying for something, as bowlers are, and you aren't getting what you paid for, you have a right to complain with zero obligation on your part to do anything more.  After all, your money is a contribution, a contribution that should allow those in power with the responsibility of making bowling better to do so. 

However, if people are really concerned enough to pout and moan about it like you said, they really should do more, because again, objectively, if you're unhappy with how things are going, and you think you could make a difference or contribute, do it!  Just throwing money in and saying, "well, I'm contributing," isn't going to make a difference if you're giving money to people you have no confidence in. 

How do you get involved or make any changes unless you get involved with the business?  You either have to become a coach, get on your local board, work at a center, work at a pro shop, etc,.  There's not much you can do for the sport of bowling without getting involved in the industry, which makes it business.  If paying dues and participating doesn't qualify, there's really no other way to get involved.  Maybe I'm just not seeing your angle, care to expand? 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Gizmo823

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Re: USBC: Have there been any improvements in 8 years?
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2013, 03:25:10 PM »
Where in my post did I mention "business"??

I said the "sport of bowling", two completely different things.

Of the "bowlers" who bitch, moan and complain, how many of them put effort into making the sport of bowling better? I would wager it's not 1 in 500.

Most of whom don't know how or don't have the power to.  If I pay for a burger somewhere, and it comes out cold and not how I ordered it, is it my responsibility to go get a job there so I can make the burgers the right way? 

Now, I'm not arguing with you or even saying that you're wrong, because you're not, but objectivity requires taking an honest look from all sides.  If you're paying for something, as bowlers are, and you aren't getting what you paid for, you have a right to complain with zero obligation on your part to do anything more.  After all, your money is a contribution, a contribution that should allow those in power with the responsibility of making bowling better to do so. 

However, if people are really concerned enough to pout and moan about it like you said, they really should do more, because again, objectively, if you're unhappy with how things are going, and you think you could make a difference or contribute, do it!  Just throwing money in and saying, "well, I'm contributing," isn't going to make a difference if you're giving money to people you have no confidence in. 

Lol and as far as that goes, where in my post did I mention business? 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?