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Author Topic: USBC Honor Score Award Changing  (Read 16210 times)

skwira001

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USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« on: August 18, 2014, 10:07:40 AM »
There will be no more awards this season for 299 of any kind and 11 in a row is going away.  I don't know when exactly it changed, but in the 2012-2013 season I had a couple of 299 games.  It made it to bowl.com achievement section under Find a Member as 11 in a row which is no big deal because they can still see what each score of my series is on the achievement section, and I was still able to purchase a 299 ring on keepsakebowling.com.  However, now when you go to keepsakebowling.com, you see 299 rings are now gone because there is no way for them to verify you actually had a 299 game.

To read more about it, go here: http://www.bowl.com/Awards/Awards_Home/2014-2015_High_Score_Awards_FAQ/

 

witesoxwoz22

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2014, 11:26:56 PM »
Do I understand the new policy in that 11 in a rows do not go to your online record now?

skwira001

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #17 on: October 09, 2014, 07:05:36 PM »
Do I understand the new policy in that 11 in a rows do not go to your online record now?

That is correct.

skwira001

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2014, 07:29:34 PM »
Instead of eliminating honor score awards, I really wish they would crack down on the reason honor scores are so common.  There was a time when having a single 300/800 made you a local hero, now it makes you just another guy.  Instead of just not issue awards, how about you regulate the lane conditions or equipment a bit more (or at all).  And before you say it, I know, I know, making the game too challenging will drive away all those people who are in love with their big averages.  Sorry.

Let me just mention something about that.  I believe what really drove people away is extra DWI enforcement, smoking bans in many states, and after that came the bad economy of 2008.  However, if you look at the bowling centers at least in Minnesota that have closed, they are all junk anyway.

One of my bowling leagues is at a place called Pinz here in Minnesota.  It looks like a Brunswick Zone.  It has a slightly different design in that it has 10 lanes in a completely separate room that is always a party area with cosmic bowling.  Then they have 24 lanes which on Monday through Thursday nights will always host leagues in prime time.  The shot is super easy and the carry is decent being that it's a new center.  The centers in my area I've seen close down are the ones with warped lanes and older pin setter machines that constantly break down.  The ones that made the investment in quality lanes, pin setters, and probably least important the latest scoring system are doing fine.  The brand new centers are also doing fine.  I've seen 2 mom and pop get banked owned, but a buyer finally found both of them.

Instead of forcing tough lane condition down our throat, we should encourage bowlers to join a sport, USBC Blue, or PBA experience league.  Another option is a USBC White pattern league.  The league officers can round up the captain and the whole league to decide on to make the pattern a White pattern league or the more difficult sport/blue/PBA Experience pattern league.

I really think the more of these older centers with 1960's generation pin spotters die out and close down and newer centers come up and the older centers that have kept their bowling centers in good shape remain open, bowling will regain in popularity again.  High schools are picking up bowlers on the schools teams.

Gene J Kanak

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #19 on: October 10, 2014, 08:36:12 AM »
Encouraging bowlers to join Sport and/or PBA Exp. leagues just doesn't work in the big picture. A lot of bowlers talk big about wanting to bowl on challenging conditions, but then they talk smack about the center and threaten to quit after they shoot under 540 three weeks in a row. Most bowlers are hypocrites, ladies and gentlemen. It's sad, but it's true. They don't think that the shot is too easy when they're shooting 700 plus five out of six weeks; it's only too easy when the guys on the pair next to them - who they think are drastically inferior - manage to shoot those numbers as well.

Sport leagues only flourish in areas that have exceptional proprietors and/or exceptional local associations. If the leaders in a certain area can get people to look past their egos and saddle up for a challenge, the Sport leagues thrive. Sadly, it just doesn't go that way in many places. The funny part about that is that the same guys and gals usually end up leading the pack, it's just with averages of 190-200 instead of 220-230. Still, some people only find bowling fun when they can wheel the ball all over the lane and break 250 at least once a night.

When I worked for USBC, I had a couple different ideas for conditions. First, I said let's just go staunch and say that ALL certified leagues had to be on Sport-compliant patterns. I was pretty much laughed out of the room because they felt that frustration would cause bowlers to leave in droves. I then jumped on another person's bandwagon about tiering the membership and awards structure depending upon what types of conditions were being used. If you bowled on patterns that featured an oil ratio of 3:1 or lower, you were eligible for the highest awards package because you were bowling on the most-challenging conditions. If you bowled on patterns with a ratio of 4:1 to 10:1, your awards package was slightly lessened, and if you bowled on anything higher than 10:1, you had the least number of awards possible since you were bowling on the easiest conditions. That idea never got legs either. Lastly, I wondered if we could make all youth leagues bowl on Sport-compliant patterns. The idea there was that if all the kids ever knew and learned on were Sport patters, they would be used to them and want to continue using them when they went to the adult ranks.

In the end, obviously, none of the ideas took hold. The problem is this. USBC is afraid of doing anything drastic that would cause large numbers of bowlers to jump ship because, frankly, if that happens, they may not have enough operating capital to keep the organization running at all; however, staying the course is causing a slow bleed that, if not tied off, will eventually lead to death anyhow. It's an unenviable position to be sure, but let me state once more something that I have stated countless times on here. USBC has been far from perfect; there is no disputing that; however, the organization and the people who run it do truly care for the sport of bowling and want to see it survive and become revitalized. Sadly, a combination of bad public perception, bad economy, low sponsorship, etc. are making it very difficult for the organization to make noticeable progress. Still, for those who complain about the cost of USBC membership, keep something in mind. I recently paid over $700 to have both of my kids enrolled at a local dance studio. That fee gets them one night of lessons per week and one recital at the end. USBC membership cost me $18 (not all of which goes to national by the way) for 33 weeks. Now, do I see a ton of tangible take-aways from my USBC membership? Maybe not, but should I really get rings, patches, plaques, etc. for giving the organization 54.5 cents a week? USBC isn't stupid or terrible for failing to give out awards now; it probably never should've been giving them out in the first place. Let the local associations and/or the individual houses handle that. USBC is a governing body, not a trophy shop. I know it's hard to accept not getting something that you've always gotten in the past, but times change. USBC could afford it when 300/800 were rare, noteworthy feats. We all know that isn't the case anymore. Does your whole center stop and gather around when someone is going for 300/800, or do you only know it happened because of a bit of cheer on ball No. 12 or when they announce it over the PA system?

Lastly, now that I've dragged on for far too long...again, when you want to complain about the game being too easy, keep in mind that nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use a brand new $200 high-performance bowling ball. If you really wanted a challenge, you'd buy a urethane or plastic ball to use for all shots. Now, I know you'll be at a disadvantage when competing against all of the guys using the high-tech stuff, but that's a different discussion. If you want the game to be challening, if you want to have to hit your mark and throw the ball well to make the ball hit hard, there are options out there that could give you what you want. As such, all bowlers, myself included, have to accept some level of blame when talking about how easy the game has become.

Pinbuster

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2014, 10:18:41 AM »
+1

scrub49

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2014, 12:08:49 PM »
What is easy to one person may not be to another I been hearing this dispute about lane condition since I started bowling in 1977, frankly I do not know any more what is legal. There just too many egos in bowling when an person considers his or her self better than their competition and lose to them something has to be wrong.So Gene is right own with his statement.

S-70BreakPearl

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2014, 12:33:58 PM »
  Honor scores,

 IM sure there was several honor scores shot in the last 20-30 year that if there ball was checked by back then ABC or now USBC or the center to see if there ball was even legal which IM sure there was many that would not of passed the scale, They would not of had to honor those scores which may of saved them thousands and thousands of dollars if not more in awards over that period of time.   Maybe thats something they need to look into doing again through every bowling center.   its not very costly and most centers do have proshops and the 1s that dont would only need to get a scale.


bowling related now,

I see your point to a degree, But when I watch a 60 year old lady throw the ball 9MPH and hits the head pin head on and they all fall down I guess the game has just gotten way to easy for everyone right? that would be a NO in my book. You still have to have the ability to throw quality shots ball after ball and make the right ajustments as the lanes conditions change. If your wanting the scores to go down there is just no easy fix to make every bowler happy. If you add more oil or make the pins heaiver then your going to upset the older and slower bowlers or the bowlers that cant ajust to the game to begin with.





 BACK in the good ol days,

 back in the day we use to put wheel baring grease all over our equipment to fill in the pours on the balls  and then polish the crap out of them to help the ball get down the lane futher  because back then they didnt use so much oil like they do today!!!


 now on the topic of balling balls,

 I cant see why anyone in there right mind would pay over 200.00 for a ball to begin with. thats just crazy and out of control for what proshops charge these days but thats a whole other topic for another time LOL.

 
 USBC changing rules now,


USBC has changed rules in the past and IM sure they will continue changing them as time goes on.  what I cant figure out is WHY change a rule IN the middle of a season?   they changed this award rule in April this year and then stated if you have already thrown a 300 or 800 set in the 2013 - 2014 season you wont be getting award for the 2014 - 2015 or any other time you throw either 1 again unless its under a sports league.  so for the person that went out in say Nov and got her 300 game and then in Dec she shot a 800 set  then at that point shes done getting another award for the following season or any season after that.  why couldnt they just make the rule this year for 2014 - 2015 if you get a 300 game or a 800 set then that will be a once in a life time award.  I guess USBC figured they have messed up  so many times in the past why stop now!!!  what have they got right lately? Nothing thats for sure LOL

  USBC will not make every bowler happy no matter what they do or change, thats a given. you just have to keep moving forward and adapt to the new rules weather you like them or not.

 Lowering the scores,

 This is not the right answer but if you really want to lower the scores, what if you just added another 10 feet to the lanes ;D I think that would do the trick but the cost is not very effective but IM sure that would lower the score for sure for most bowlers out there.   


 If you use less oil it will make it harder to ajust and make the lanes harder to play, Plus ID like to see some of these bowlers that just float the ball out side and watch it come back to the pocket playing straight up the 5-10 board. That shot would no longer be there for them and IM sure they would pack up there rocks up and go somewhere eles to find more oil so they can use there high end equipment because they was never tought how to bowl with a white dot or  black beauty or even the famous Yellow Dot bleeder  all lower end equipment then what your seeing on the lanes today..  ( wait IM showing my age now )  :-\   
« Last Edit: October 10, 2014, 12:36:37 PM by S-70BreakPearl »
If you want it, go after it and make it happen.  If you don't, you have no one to blame but yourself....or maybe your just not throwing the right equipment  :)

Gene J Kanak

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2014, 12:52:56 PM »
As I eluded to, there are no magic buttons to press or perfect solutions to be found. Bowling's problems are many, and I truly believe that even if someone found a way to solve them over time, it would still be highly unlikely that bowling would ever return to the popularity it saw in the "good old days." Membership decline is not all about ABC/USBC's missteps/failings; there are many factors outside of the organization's sphere of influence that have and will continue to steer potential bowlers to other activities. This isn't said in order to excuse USBC for mistakes because there is no doubt mistakes have been made; nevertheless, rather than dwelling on them, the organization (and its members) need to look toward the future and take some bold actions designed at trying to infuse some life back into our slowly-dying sport. Sure, it won't be possible to please everyone, but that doesn't mean we should stand pat doing things we know don't work just to avoid roughling feathers. If nothing else, bold actions may show some people that the organization truly does care about bowling's future because the threads I read seem to indicate many bowlers have their doubts about that. As the wise Andy Dufresne once said, "get busy livin', or get busy dyin!"

Eddie M

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2014, 12:59:47 PM »
USBC is afraid

This imho is the biggest problem.  The USBC, and the ABC before it, are so afraid of doing harm, that they neglect doing good.  Standing idly by hoping for things to get better isn't working.  I want the regulators to start regulating, or get out of the way so someone else can.
Right Handed
Motiv Venom Shock, Motiv Freestyle, Storm Mix
avg: 221 - hg: 300 x7

Left Handed
Storm Street Fight, Storm Mix
avg: 180

Gene J Kanak

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2014, 01:08:38 PM »
I guess that's valid to a point, Eddie, but I have a couple of questions. First, what do you expect out of the dues you pay each year? Again, I paid $18 in total dues this season. I forget how much of that is national, but I think it's around $10. Even if all $18 went to national, that breaks down to 54.5 cents a week in a 33-week league. What are you expecting for that contribution? I bring this up because a lot of bowlers have an axe to grind because ABC/USBC used to do x, y, and z, and now they only do z. Well, operating costs have gone up, and membership continues to go down. Obviously, you can't consistently spend more than you bring in. That's why USBC has laid off nearly half of its labor force over the last 4 years.

Second, what aren't they regulating? Please give me some specific examples of things you want/need to see done that USBC is not doing?

Lastly, when you say get out of the way so that someone else can, to whom are you referring, and are you planning on being a part of that group?

I don't mean to challenge you personally, Eddie. You are echoing points that I've heard others state countless times around here; however, I do think my questions are valid. There are a lot of armchair CEOs around here who claim to have all of the answers, yet here we sit. If you truly have the magic formula to fix competitive bowling, please share it with us before sharing it with USBC. If they ignore your gem of an idea, I will gladly jump on the bandwagon and suppor the USBC-is-the-bowling-antiChrist movement. Until then, I'll have a hard time taking comments like your seriously. Again, nothing personal, just the facts.


Eddie M

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2014, 01:58:53 PM »
I guess that's valid to a point, Eddie, but I have a couple of questions. First, what do you expect out of the dues you pay each year? Again, I paid $18 in total dues this season. I forget how much of that is national, but I think it's around $10. Even if all $18 went to national, that breaks down to 54.5 cents a week in a 33-week league. What are you expecting for that contribution? I bring this up because a lot of bowlers have an axe to grind because ABC/USBC used to do x, y, and z, and now they only do z. Well, operating costs have gone up, and membership continues to go down. Obviously, you can't consistently spend more than you bring in. That's why USBC has laid off nearly half of its labor force over the last 4 years.

Second, what aren't they regulating? Please give me some specific examples of things you want/need to see done that USBC is not doing?

Lastly, when you say get out of the way so that someone else can, to whom are you referring, and are you planning on being a part of that group?

I don't mean to challenge you personally, Eddie. You are echoing points that I've heard others state countless times around here; however, I do think my questions are valid. There are a lot of armchair CEOs around here who claim to have all of the answers, yet here we sit. If you truly have the magic formula to fix competitive bowling, please share it with us before sharing it with USBC. If they ignore your gem of an idea, I will gladly jump on the bandwagon and suppor the USBC-is-the-bowling-antiChrist movement. Until then, I'll have a hard time taking comments like your seriously. Again, nothing personal, just the facts.



1.  I want them to regulate the sport itself.  What goes on between the gutters.  To hold the current generation of bowlers to the same standard as those that came before it.  Things change.  Better equipment, better lane surfaces, etc.  It's the job of the USBC to insure the integrity of the sport in the face of those changes, and if need be, to stem those changes it dems detrimental to the sport.

2.  What isn't the USBC regulating?  Anything and everything I mentioned in point 1.  Perhaps I am being too harsh on this point, because I don't know what is going on being the scenes in terms of the thought processes that went into letting scoring become so inflated.  From the vantage point of the foul line, it's hard to see that anything has been done.  In fact, it appears steps had been taken in the past to actively promote higher scores.  If you promote higher scoring, it doesn't make sense to turn around and say scoring is too high, and cut the awards program.  But back on point, the USBC should regulating pin weight, determining minimum acceptable lane conditions, and setting out realistic ball requirements.  In short, as the regulatory body, they should be driving the bus instead of letting the individual centers and manufacturers do their own thing.  Drive the support where it needs to be, instead of riding asking and hoping it gets there on its own.

3. I don't claim to have answers, I only see the problems that are in front of me.  I've got 35 years bowling under my belt, and have an opinion like everyone ese.  In my eyes, the sport needs to be brought under control.  Get scores down over the course of a few years, perhaps not bien to historic average, but down from the ridiculous numbers we see today.  There are any number of ways to do this.  But the USBC can't be afraid to do it.

Push youth programs, High school teams, build from the youth in every way possible.  Every school has a tennis, golf or even swimming team (in my area at least), but not a single bowling team.  Give kids every chance to discover the sport, you can't do that if you don't push outside the front doors if the local centers.

I could go on for a while about the things I would like to see changed or implemented, but I ultimately have no more power than my voice.  The powers that be either disagree or don't care.
Right Handed
Motiv Venom Shock, Motiv Freestyle, Storm Mix
avg: 221 - hg: 300 x7

Left Handed
Storm Street Fight, Storm Mix
avg: 180

Gene J Kanak

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2014, 02:25:33 PM »
You make some good points in there. Let me reply to a few. Here goes:

1. You're correct that there haven't been many obvious changes enacted by USBC to regulate and/or slow down the scoring environment. Most of what they've done in recent years has been to encourage bowlers to take on more challenging conditions (i.e. Sport, PBA Exp., Red, White, Blue, etc.). Sadly, we know that hasn't worked. Some areas (usually ones with great proprietors and strong local associations) have great Sport programs, but others have tried it once or twice only to see it flop big time. USBC could mandate that these conditions be used as I suggested in a previous post, but I think we all know that this step would be met with a ton of resistance. Do any of you remember when USBC considered imposing drilling restrictions? From what I've heard, people nearly marched on the old Greendale facility with flaming torches when that was proposed. As such, I don't think they like to be seen as telling bowlers what they can and can't do in such cases. Also, keep in mind that USBC is just the rules/structure side; it would still be up to the individual centers to actually follow USBC lane-dressing guidelines, and is that something they want to do? I live in a town with two centers, and if one center is known for producing higher scores, that's where most of the bowlers want to go. As such, are proprietors really going to be down for playing their part in limiting scoring? I doubt it.

3. In regard to getting bowling into the schools, I know that was one of USBC's biggest priorities when I was still in the building. Sadly, due to the current crisis in educational funding throughout this country, it's hard to get schools and school boards to add new programs and activities. Hell, most districts are cutting back on their current offerings. As such, getting a foothold in the schools has proven to be a lot more difficult than most people would expect.

Lastly, again, if you have the answers, get involved with your local association so that you are in the fight instead of just talking about it. Put your 35 years of experience to good use. That's not a shot at you; the same can be said about me. I don't like the way my local association is run; however, I haven't stepped up and volunteered to become a part of that association in order to fix it. As such, I accept the situation for what it is, and I don't talk smack about what the people who are in charge are doing. Unless I'm willing to become a part of the solution, I don't feel I have the right to complain about the problems.

That's the message I think more bowlers need to keep in mind. Thousands of bowlers will tell you how awful the USBC is and how it screws everything up, yet none of them are willing to actually get involved in any way, shape, or form to try to fix the problems they've identified. To me, that's just whining, and we've all heard far too much of that!

Eddie M

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2014, 02:56:59 PM »
If there was an operating center within 25 miles, I would gladly participate much more than I do now.  As it is, it is a road trip just to go to league night.  There is a new boutique center going up a more from my house, but it remains to be seen if USBC sanctioned leagues will be offered at all.  If they are, I am all in for supporting it locally.

I wish people would get way room calling every criticism a whine.  For there to be change, there first needs to be honest discussion about all things good and bad.  If all criticisms are squashed as whining, then this honest discussions never take place, and change is killed at the ground floor.  I can only hope the people driving the bus are at least having the discussions.
Right Handed
Motiv Venom Shock, Motiv Freestyle, Storm Mix
avg: 221 - hg: 300 x7

Left Handed
Storm Street Fight, Storm Mix
avg: 180

Gene J Kanak

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2014, 03:03:25 PM »
The discussions need to be had, Eddie. There is no disputing that. I can tell you that those discussions were being had on a very consistent basis when I worked in Arlington. Any issues that USBC fails to fix aren't because they don't realize the problem is there. The folks in that building don't think that everything is fine and dandy the way it is. They realize that changes need to take place; I think they just struggle to figure out (and get support from the members) how to get them all fixed.


Eddie M

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Re: USBC Honor Score Award Changing
« Reply #30 on: October 10, 2014, 03:15:12 PM »
Getting support from the members is the tricky part.  You can't make everybody happy, but at the same time, sometimes the right answer isn't always going to be popular.  Just look at the recent 2 hand for change.  A rule that affected maybe 2% of all bowlers just caused people to freak.  I can only imagine what a true sweeping rule change might do, but I guess I am just at point where I would rather see the tough choices being made, rather than sticking with the status quo.
Right Handed
Motiv Venom Shock, Motiv Freestyle, Storm Mix
avg: 221 - hg: 300 x7

Left Handed
Storm Street Fight, Storm Mix
avg: 180