BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: revTrex on June 08, 2009, 03:44:09 AM
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June 8, 2009
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: Jason Overstreet
International Bowling Campus Communications
(800) 514-BOWL, ext. 8380
jason.overstreet@bowl.com
On the Web: bowl.com
USBC DEVELOPING NEW RED, WHITE AND BLUE CONDITIONS; BPAA TO ASSIST IN TESTING
ARLINGTON, Texas - The United States Bowling Congress plans to introduce a new series of lane conditions for certified competition. The group of patterns is designed to provide bowlers a better description for the difficulty of traditional "house" conditions.
As part of the plan, leagues and tournaments will have the option of using oil patterns falling into USBC Red, White or Blue condition categories. USBC Red pattern will be the most forgiving condition, USBC White will be more challenging and USBC Blue will be the most difficult of the new "house" conditions. USBC Sport Bowling conditions will continue to be the most challenging level of oil patterns.
"We know that lane conditions have a tremendous impact on the sport," USBC Vice President-National Governing Body Neil Stremmel said. "House shots can be very easy or reasonably challenging. Knowing the difficulty of the condition helps build credibility for the sport and adds a new fun element for bowlers."
The new condition categories are scheduled for testing later this year in cooperation with the Bowling Proprietors' Association of America. The conditions should be available for tournament use in spring 2010 and for the fall 2010 league season.
"This program can provide proprietors an excellent marketing tool to attract and maintain league bowlers," BPAA President Jim Sturm said. "Red, White and Blue can be used like stepping stones to progressively increase a bowler's interest in the competitive side of the sport. We are eager to test the program and hear feedback from customers and proprietors."
Use of the USBC Red, White and Blue conditions will be completely optional and the patterns will be available for download at no cost.
"A primary goal of the project is to make the USBC Red, White and Blue conditions easy for bowlers to understand and proprietors to utilize," Stremmel said. "The industry's lane machine manufacturers have been extremely supportive in making sure this program will work for nearly any center wanting to participate."
As part of the effort to gain attention for the new condition categories, USBC is sponsoring a stop on next season's Lumber Liquidators PBA Tour. The Red, White and Blue Open presented by USBC will be held at Northrock Lanes in Wichita, Kan., Dec. 7-13. The finals telecast will air Jan. 3 on ESPN.
United States Bowling Congress
The United States Bowling Congress, as the national governing body, ensures the integrity and protects the future of the sport, provides programs and services to nearly 2.5 million adult and youth members and enhances the bowling experience.
Bowling Proprietors' Association of America
Founded in 1932 and headquartered in Arlington, Texas, BPAA represents the business interests of bowling center owners worldwide. BPAA's mission to enhance the profitability of its member centers and its vision is to be an essential resource to bowling centers and to lead a united, growing, more prosperous and highly regarded bowling industry.
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www.900global.com
www.bowlersjournal.com
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Great!! When can I tell my centers' managers that they'll be getting their new $2500 lane tape reader?
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Anyone care to bet how different this program will be from the program Kegel introduced last year? Unless it is markedly different, USBC simply re-invented the wheel (again), while perhaps alienating another industry partner.
I wonder, since the patterns will have varying degrees of difficulty, will these patterns come with an average adjustment chart? What if the most difficult pattern is "tough enough"...will this hurt the Sport Bowling program?
This couldn't possibly be a move to mandated conditions, could it? If not, what is the point?
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Won't matter. The same 3 guys that show up for Sport and PBA leagues will show up for the "Blue" condition league. Nobody else will support anything other than the "Red" pattern. After all, bowlers don't want a challenge, they just want to relax after work, get drunk, and shoot fish in a barrel.
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9~
Internet Tough Guy
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
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I am very intrigued to try them all! This should make leagues much more dynamic IMO.
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
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quote:
Won't matter. The same 3 guys that show up for Sport and PBA leagues will show up for the "Blue" condition league. Nobody else will support anything other than the "Red" pattern. After all, bowlers don't want a challenge, they just want to relax after work, get drunk, and shoot fish in a barrel.
I agree. Nobody wants to get better. They just want to score easier.
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if I owned an alley, Id put the white out and not tell anyone
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
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quote:
After all, bowlers don't want a challenge, they just want to relax after work, get drunk, and shoot fish in a barrel.
Two things:
A). This is a bit of a blanket statement, yes? At least in my area, participation in sport leagues seems to be steadily climbing, albeit slowly.
B). Is there really anything wrong with this? I bowl sport leagues, so please don't judge me, but I also enjoy my cake and ice cream leagues where I can shoot some huge scores on occasion, have a good time, and relax with the guys. Does that make me a bad guy or a wall baby or something? I think it's gotten to the point where the critics think that if you don't bowl sport leagues exclusively, you're a hack. Meantime, they choose to neglect the fact that there have always -- and I mean *always* -- been easy lane conditions and tough lane conditions.
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"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein."
-Broadcasting Extraordinaire and Mensa Member Joe Theismann
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I see your point Crusty. But,there are some guys who continually pump themselves on the fact they're averaging 205 on a THS. Those same guys are griping at the house when they can't score over 150 on PBAX. Some people just don't get it.
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quote:
I see your point Crusty. But,there are some guys who continually pump themselves on the fact they're averaging 205 on a THS. Those same guys are griping at the house when they can't score over 150 on PBAX. Some people just don't get it.
I agree. If you're bowling 9 leages a season, all on a wall, your low average is like 228, and you consistently brag about the number of honor scores you have when you struggle to shoot 500 on anything without a bump at the gutter, that's a problem. However, if you hold your own on sport conditions and enjoy crowbarring them once or twice a week on china, I don't think that makes you a bad guy, especially when a lot of the guys who insist on bowling PBAX exclusively do it entirely for the wrong reasons (i.e. to make a statement).
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"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein."
-Broadcasting Extraordinaire and Mensa Member Joe Theismann
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Some people want to have fun, some people want a challenge - that's all. While I agree arrogance is a poor trait, I'm very proud of my 205 on house china, lol. I know I'm not the best, but I've worked very hard to get where I am, and I hope to hit 210 soon. I think clumping all bowlers like those who have the nose in the air is a bit rash.
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Proud Supporter of Rob Stone
Obviously, you aren't a golfer.
Some stayed in the foothills, some washed logs like teeth.
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quote:
Anyone care to bet how different this program will be from the program Kegel introduced last year? Unless it is markedly different, USBC simply re-invented the wheel (again), while perhaps alienating another industry partner.
I wonder, since the patterns will have varying degrees of difficulty, will these patterns come with an average adjustment chart? What if the most difficult pattern is "tough enough"...will this hurt the Sport Bowling program?
This couldn't possibly be a move to mandated conditions, could it? If not, what is the point?
Maybe I'm missing the point you're trying to make, but the way I read it, they're not going to be competing with Kegel. Rather, they'll test each of the Kegel patterns and assign them Red, White or Blue status according to their level of difficulty (and do the same with any other pattern currently out there).
On the PBA.com forums, some guy claiming to be with the USBC mentioned last week that there is going to be some kind of slope rating system coming out soon, measuring not lane conditions but house characteristics (age, strength of the side kick panels, gutter depth, etc.), in other words the stuff that's currently found on an annual inspection form. Add that slope to the Red, White or Blue condition and you have the means to perform an average calculation, similar to golf.
And it also sounds like Sport and PBAX conditions will be on top of RWB, not part of the Blue category.
I'm hoping to bowl on two leagues this fall. I expect the mixed league my wife and I bowl on will stay Red (and it should, given the general skill level of the folks who bowl on it), but I hope our draft scratch league opts for White or Blue.
Jess
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http://www.kegel.net/patternlibrary/kegel-navigation-patterns.htm
Jess,
If you read the information in the link above, you'll see that USBC has essentially duplicated this effort. Considering the amount of time, work, and money that Kegel put into their program, I highly doubt that they would let USBC categorize their patterns (which Kegel already did) for free. How can coming out with the same program (and format) not be considered competition?
Which begs the question...how much MEMBERSHIP MONEY did USBC use to recreate what Kegel already did? Unless this has been in the works for YEARS, why wouldn't USBC simply partner with Kegel?
Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of the idea. Hopefully it will lead to some type of mandating of lane conditions in the future. I just don't see the need for duplication given USBC's limited (and decreasing) resources.
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quote:
http://www.kegel.net/patternlibrary/kegel-navigation-patterns.htm
Jess,
If you read the information in the link above, you'll see that USBC has essentially duplicated this effort. Considering the amount of time, work, and money that Kegel put into their program, I highly doubt that they would let USBC categorize their patterns (which Kegel already did) for free. How can coming out with the same program (and format) not be considered competition?
Which begs the question...how much MEMBERSHIP MONEY did USBC use to recreate what Kegel already did? Unless this has been in the works for YEARS, why wouldn't USBC simply partner with Kegel?
Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of the idea. Hopefully it will lead to some type of mandating of lane conditions in the future. I just don't see the need for duplication given USBC's limited (and decreasing) resources.
Well, a few things:
1) The USBC isn't in competition with Kegel. Kegel is not a sanctioning body. What Kegel wants to do with lane patterns, as a private business, is its own business. I guess you could ask the same questions about the training centers (why do we need the KTC and another one at the new USBC headquarters in Arlington). The answer is the USBC is under no obligation to consult Kegel in its decisions. However, Kegel does have to abide by USBC regulations in order to be involved in the sport of organized bowling (unless it forms its own sanctioning body). That's just the way it is.
2) I don't think Kegel can stop the USBC from classifying its patterns, any more than a golf club manufacturer can keep the USGA from ruling its clubs in or out of play, or bowling ball manufacturers can keep the USBC from finding a certain model of ball out-of-spec. It goes back to the relationship between manufacturer and sanctioning body.
3) I would think Kegel would welcome this, since the USBC could publish a list of criteria for Red/White/Blue and Kegel could market itself to bowling centers under the following plan: "Hey, if you want some pre-programmed patterns that comply with the White standard, we've already developed X, Y and Z and will be happy to sell you the program license."
4) Why didn't the USBC just cede this responsibility to Kegel? Probably because it wanted to keep internal regulatory control over the patterns, and/or because Brunswick is also involved with the USBC and is a competitor to Kegel.
I doubt a lot of member money was spent on this, anyway, in regards to testing. I think Red/White/Blue will probably mimic the Kegel system but the USBC had to have its own system in order to assert a position of fairness in regards to the market.
Jess
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So which of the three is going to be the easiest? And which the hardest?
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it starts with the owners of the allys first, if they see that there leagues are scoring well then they wont change the shot, its getting them to tweek the house shot to keep the difficulty there, once that happens, you will see less house bowlers and tougher house shots
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Nothing Hits Like A Roto Grip
In The Bag All 15s:
Roto Grip Rogue Cell
Global 900 Break S75
Roto Grip Grand Illusion
Raw Hammer Toxic
Roto Grip Neptune
WWF Rock Spare Ball
//www.bowlsk.com/view-profile.html
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So do you think that the rating system will be added to the yearly center certification or the yearly zero lineage? Then, hoping that the house does not change from day to day, week to week, the center will be certified as Red, White or Blue?
Erin
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I signed up for a summer scratch league in a house that is the largest in our association, 32 lanes.... They advertised a summer scratch on THS and a summer scratch on PBA Experience, take a guess as to how many bowlers showed up.........................
ME!!![b/]
from almost an hour away not even from their home house....
This is SAD!! This is why things like this will not matter.... people do want to drink beer and shoot scores.
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FAILURE IS FEEDBACK. AND FEEDBACK IS THE BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS THAT GOT DIGESTED!
Ten pin?????? Where?? I throw a BUZZSAW there is NUTTIN left on the deck...
Proud MEMBER of the FOS!!
Member of the FOS, if there happens to be a 9 pin standing just toss a saw and cut it down~~!
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quote:
So which of the three is going to be the easiest? And which the hardest?
"USBC Red pattern will be the most forgiving condition, USBC White will be more challenging and USBC Blue will be the most difficult of the new "house" conditions. USBC Sport Bowling conditions will continue to be the most challenging level of oil patterns."
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It should prove interesting to see what our local houses do.
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I am on the Kegel Sport and Challenge patterns this summer. I would not mind keeping those, but most of the bowlers would not show up. They want their 230 average and their ten 300's for the year.
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quote:
So do you think that the rating system will be added to the yearly center certification or the yearly zero lineage? Then, hoping that the house does not change from day to day, week to week, the center will be certified as Red, White or Blue?
Erin
I don't think the house itself will be Red/White/Blue, but the shot.
From what the guy on PBA.com said, houses will eventually get their own "slope rating" but the shot itself isn't a part of the consideration. I guess once you take the slope and then add the shot you get a final number.
In other words, League A could be Red and League B could be White. If a "par" slope is 200, and the house is rated 198.5 (meaning an average 200 bowler would roll a 198.5 in this house due to whatever factors are out there), then you get the following:
League A
198.5 * Red (value) = 215
League B
198.5 * White (value) = 197
etc., etc.
Jess
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But you could use the tougher shots for scratch leagues easier patterns for Wannabe bowlers that have big egos and no skill.
As far as I am concerned make it tougher to score I really don't care I want the challenge.
If the Hack can't keep up then he can get better or suffer. Everyone always tells the better bowlers to put up or shut up when it comes to easy conditions now reverse it!
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''If their is a life after death,
then their is no death,
and if their is no death,
we do not live''
Progressive Metal Band
EVERGREY
MainzerPower
Edited on 6/9/2009 7:02 AM
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RED/WHITE/BLUE ... very interesting! Let's see now ..let's have a tournament where there are 2 shifts .. the first starts off with BLUE .. no oiling done .. what condition would you call the second ..probable IMPOSSIBLE! Think this is what they have in SINGLES/DOUBLES at the NATIONALS!
How about SENIORS that bowl at 1 PM on a condition that hasn't been touched after 1 league and OPEN BOWLING? What would you call that CONDITION? Maybe VERY IMPOSSIBLE!
But who cares!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess
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quote:
quote:
Won't matter. The same 3 guys that show up for Sport and PBA leagues will show up for the "Blue" condition league. Nobody else will support anything other than the "Red" pattern. After all, bowlers don't want a challenge, they just want to relax after work, get drunk, and shoot fish in a barrel.
I agree. Nobody wants to get better. They just want to score easier.
maybe some ppl just cant get better to begin with....
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quote:
RED/WHITE/BLUE ... very interesting! Let's see now ..let's have a tournament where there are 2 shifts .. the first starts off with BLUE .. no oiling done .. what condition would you call the second ..probable IMPOSSIBLE! Think this is what they have in SINGLES/DOUBLES at the NATIONALS!
How about SENIORS that bowl at 1 PM on a condition that hasn't been touched after 1 league and OPEN BOWLING? What would you call that CONDITION? Maybe VERY IMPOSSIBLE!
But who cares!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess
No one said you have to use it in a Tourney. Also if a condition is broke down properly it will still be as playable if not more playable than it was at the start of the first shift, i.e. Willow Creek Classic.
As for the Seniors my house oils for them when they come in like any other league. Again if the lane is broken down properly it wouldn't be an issue if the lane were not oiled. And cmon some of the senior guys are alot better than you give them credit for, those guys bowled back in the day when bowling was tough.
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''If their is a life after death,
then their is no death,
and if their is no death,
we do not live''
Progressive Metal Band
EVERGREY
MainzerPower
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quote:
quote:
After all, bowlers don't want a challenge, they just want to relax after work, get drunk, and shoot fish in a barrel.
Two things:
A). This is a bit of a blanket statement, yes? At least in my area, participation in sport leagues seems to be steadily climbing, albeit slowly.
B). Is there really anything wrong with this? I bowl sport leagues, so please don't judge me, but I also enjoy my cake and ice cream leagues where I can shoot some huge scores on occasion, have a good time, and relax with the guys. Does that make me a bad guy or a wall baby or something? I think it's gotten to the point where the critics think that if you don't bowl sport leagues exclusively, you're a hack. Meantime, they choose to neglect the fact that there have always -- and I mean *always* -- been easy lane conditions and tough lane conditions.
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"Nobody in the game of football should be called a genius. A genius is somebody like Norman Einstein."
-Broadcasting Extraordinaire and Mensa Member Joe Theismann
Crusty, it was a blanket statement, and seems to accurately portray the league bowler in my area. Nobody will show up for anything other than a handicapped THS league, even though 3/4 of the league averages over 200. A tenth of these guys might shoe up for a scratch tournament on a THS, but put out a tough pattern and watch the tears fall (along with the sign up numbers).
I'm glad it's better where you're at, but your area seems to be the exception rather than the norm. Thus, the blanket statement I made is IMO fairly accurate in most markets (due to number of replies of the same phenomenon from other posters over the years I've been here).
Also, not judging you personally. I just think it's sad how we have so many 190+ avg bowlers that are either 1) Lazy 2) Afraid to bowl scratch and 3) Too insecure to give up big game and average numbers to challenge themselves on tougher conditions.
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9~
Internet Tough Guy
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
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quote:
Again if the lane is broken down properly it wouldn't be an issue if the lane were not oiled.
Not sure what that means! If you OIL then have a LEAGUE of 4 bowlers on a TEAM .. Don't oil .. allow OPEN BOWLERS where High school bowlers participate .. don't oil .. then have a SENIOR LEAGUE bowl .. what kind of shot do the SENIORS have? As you suggest some of these Senior take bowling serious enough to buy HIGH PERFORMANCE bowling balls .. do you think this is fair? Shouldn't the USBC be at LEAST looking at situations like this .. or are the CENTER OWNERS in control? What difference in these cases what they want to call the initial oiling (R/W/B) .. it's GARBAGE when seniors get it! I thought they paid membership fees too!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess
Edited on 6/9/2009 9:25 AM
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Joe you must have a bad house. The Sr Leagues here get fresh oil, as do all leagues, just prior to start time. As far as I know, the Sr leagues get a slightly different pattern than most of the other leagues, length wise, but it's always fresh, unless the machine goes down.
The USBC can come up with as many shots as they want but if each house doesn't put them out, but is still legal, not much anyone can do except complain. Given the USBC is talking only measuring once a year, any house that wanted to could just about never oil.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
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Joe, If your leagues are not oiled before league starts? Why not? I would complain to managment or find another house.
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''If their is a life after death,
then their is no death,
and if their is no death,
we do not live''
Progressive Metal Band
EVERGREY
MainzerPower
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AZ .. I understand your point and agree .. but I think I'd like the USBC to make a rule where OIL for LEAGUES should be a standard (perhaps R/W/B).. maybe specifying that NEVER will a LEAGUE bowl on lanes that have had more then two league usage (or the equivalent).
The case that I define re: Seniors is one that exists here in Raleigh NC ..and you would say .. why not complain or get the league to move .. it's very much like politics .. the seniors are satisfied because they pay a discount rate for lineage .. it really ISN'T a discount rate .. FACT is they are getting robbed .. and the USBC collects their fees and does NOTHING!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess
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"Broken down properly".
How many bowlers in your center do you think understand what those three words mean? Besides scratch leagues, all the mixed handicap leagues I've bowled in had such a wide varience of skill levels that you could not get lanes to be "broken down properly" even if you tried.
Joe brings up a valid point that there are still many centers that are in the stoneage as far as oiling and servicing their league bowlers whether they be scratch, handicap, Jrs or seniors. I would imagine those centers would not participate in any such program. Bowlers tend to know which centers these are or within a center which leagues will have the least cared for shot.
I would also imagine that most centers without lane reading tools and tape reading tools will not participate in any such program. Of our 13 centers not one has such tools. So I don't see this has being something that will make much of an impact around here, just like Sport and PBA hasn't. For those centers that have those tools and use of those tools, it will be something that each league will have to bargin for with the center. And due to the amount of work it will take to change patterns, tape and read the lanes, send in the tapes for verification, lineage will go up.
Erin
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quote:
but I think I'd like the USBC to make a rule where OIL for LEAGUES should be a standard (perhaps R/W/B)..
That might work but I know at our house, 44', is probably longer and heavier than most leagues. One standard would not be something I'd like to see. I'm not sure what the numbers are on the R/W/B but if they are anywhere near the "Roads", let each house choose, that may well be something good. Just have to see.
I'll admit, oiling and the cost is not as important to our house as many, being it's a military house, so the cost is not as important to them as a privately run house.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
Edited on 6/9/2009 10:36 PM
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Ok everyone that wants the easiest shot you can get raise your hand. Motion carried! Let's see do I want to work hard and struggle all night after working hard and struggling all day??? Please!!! Many bowlers just want to relax and bowl. If the shot is not right up 10 they are mad. Most league bowlers have no understanding about lane conditions at all. You can hand them a lane map and it's the old deer in the headlights. The serious bowlers may care and have interest but the number of them compared to the casual league bowler is small in some places. All this will do is have people confused and ask questions that get answers some of them do not want to hear. We experimented with a sport shot type league this spring and many people we tried to get interested in it had no idea what they were looking at or why to do it. It's hard to make people understand that they will get better by scoring less and adjusting.
Also how many proprietors are going to mess with their old Silver Bullets to make changes.
Thank God we have a Kegel machine.
Smash49
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Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com
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My house has lanes so crystallized that it does not make a difference. There are no back ends. Every week no matter the pattern, it is like 50 feet of oil.
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I agree with Smash49. Only about 10% of our league bowlers are what I consider serious bowlers. I'm fine with bowling on a normal THS on league nights and bowling more challenging shots for certain tournaments. I don't think and I hope that our center doesn't change a thing. Our local center is finally starting to put up some big scores (8-800's and 13-300's last season) and that's getting more people interested in coming back to bowling. Make it more difficult, and you'll lose the people who just do it to get out of the house. I know plenty of bowlers that just like to shoot the occasional 700 series or 250+ game. There happy with that and don't want to spend time or money to try getting better. In my opinion, the USBC has done a horrible job relating to the average "Joe Bowler" and what he/she really wants out the sport.
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titletowncards
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quote:
I agree with Smash49. Only about 10% of our league bowlers are what I consider serious bowlers. I'm fine with bowling on a normal THS on league nights and bowling more challenging shots for certain tournaments. I don't think and I hope that our center doesn't change a thing. Our local center is finally starting to put up some big scores (8-800's and 13-300's last season) and that's getting more people interested in coming back to bowling. Make it more difficult, and you'll lose the people who just do it to get out of the house. I know plenty of bowlers that just like to shoot the occasional 700 series or 250+ game. There happy with that and don't want to spend time or money to try getting better. In my opinion, the USBC has done a horrible job relating to the average "Joe Bowler" and what he/she really wants out the sport.
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titletowncards
I respectfully disagree with your last sentence. If anything, I feel the ABC/USBC has done a lot more for the average "Joe Bowler" than they have for the more dedicated, serious player. Maybe not in a sense of actually doing any market research on them to figure out what they want, but definitely in how they chose to start looking the other way when big scores were shot on unapproved conditions (which I feel is partially responsible for the score fest patterns we see today).
Lack of manpower or lack of desire to police the rules they had/have in place governing lane conditions/sandbagging/equipment has also played a part, IMO, in the decay of bowling's integrity. This is one of the main reasons, I think, bowling is not considered a sport in most circles. There is too much leniency or non-enforcement in the rules regarding conditions and equipment, and the whole handicap/sandbagging thing is a joke that nobody is lauging about except the sandbaggers.
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9~
Internet Tough Guy
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
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quote:
quote:
I agree with Smash49. Only about 10% of our league bowlers are what I consider serious bowlers. I'm fine with bowling on a normal THS on league nights and bowling more challenging shots for certain tournaments. I don't think and I hope that our center doesn't change a thing. Our local center is finally starting to put up some big scores (8-800's and 13-300's last season) and that's getting more people interested in coming back to bowling. Make it more difficult, and you'll lose the people who just do it to get out of the house. I know plenty of bowlers that just like to shoot the occasional 700 series or 250+ game. There happy with that and don't want to spend time or money to try getting better. In my opinion, the USBC has done a horrible job relating to the average "Joe Bowler" and what he/she really wants out the sport.
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titletowncards
I respectfully disagree with your last sentence. If anything, I feel the ABC/USBC has done a lot more for the average "Joe Bowler" than they have for the more dedicated, serious player. Maybe not in a sense of actually doing any market research on them to figure out what they want, but definitely in how they chose to start looking the other way when big scores were shot on unapproved conditions (which I feel is partially responsible for the score fest patterns we see today).
Lack of manpower or lack of desire to police the rules they had/have in place governing lane conditions/sandbagging/equipment has also played a part, IMO, in the decay of bowling's integrity. This is one of the main reasons, I think, bowling is not considered a sport in most circles. There is too much leniency or non-enforcement in the rules regarding conditions and equipment, and the whole handicap/sandbagging thing is a joke that nobody is lauging about except the sandbaggers.
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9~
Internet Tough Guy
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
sandbagging upsets me also, the last tournament i went to their was a 175 avg guy and he shot like 780 actual something crazy. he didnt even bowl like he had a 170 avg im never bowling a handicapped tourney again especially if i only get like 9 pins.
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My bowling center does not have the oil machine that you can program any of these new oil patterns. It's the one with pre-programmed oil patterns. Add on top of that that they have no clue how to maintain or fix it, so it constantly breaks down to lay wierd oil patterns by accident. This results in harder than THS conditions. I can tell you that we won't participate in the Red, White, Blue program.
I agree with the other posters here. If it doesn't yield high scores, then you won't get big turnouts. Our harder conditions turn away a lot of bowlers that choose to go to the "Great Wall of China" houses to average 200 or above. I'm at one of these houses now bowling in a summer league and amazed on how easy it easy it is to average a 200.
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Ken - aka "dpunky" - Certified USBC Level I Coach
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I'm afraid things will get worse. With the new things USBC plans to put into place. I'd like to know more about sanctioned open bowling. This idea really scares me.
Smash49
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Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com
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The previous owner of our center would let people bowl on their league lanes before the league started. We oil our lanes right before league and do not allow anyone on the lanes especially the lanes they would be bowling on for league. Some people were not happy about it but they were the ones that had the advantage.
Smash49
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Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
www.bowlersslidesock.com
Striking Cat Bowling Pro Shop, Duncan Oklahoma! IBPSIA Certified Technician
www.strikingcatbowling.com
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Thanks COOL .. like most of us .. President doesn't want to ROCK THE BOAT .. he's been president as long as I can remember and he likes the price he gets from the alley .. I'd volunteer to be the President but I know I would work on OIL and it might get group upset if the price goes up.
At the end of this past winter season I adjusted the surface on one of my balls and I think I might of hit on something. RARELY TOUCH BALL SURFACES!
Thanks for your suggestion!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess
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I am interested in how USBC will determine the RED, WHITE and BLUE differentiations. I mean, it is one thing to say that RED will play the easiest and BLUE will play the toughest but for who (What type of player)? Take a cranker and give them a ball that soaks up oil and you have a hole burned into any pattern pretty quick. I assume, they mean by the average bowler (tweener) which could make it look pretty easy for stroker.
This whole topic reminds me of several topics I participated here back a couple years ago with MichiganBowling. Back then we (both Michigan and I) forcasted this to be the best solution (albeit not using the acronyms Red, White and Blue).
While I think there is merit in this for the "bowler who wants to improve" or the bowler who wants to "prove they are good" but for the rest of the bowlers they could care less. I am not convinced the vast majority of bowlers want there cake and eat it too... I still believe the vast majority of bowlers just want to bowl and don't care what they average just like they dont care what they throw. I think there are at least 3 major categories... Those who are good, those who believe they are good and those who don't care. And each of these catagories have will have a different view of the RED, WHITE and BLUE concept.
Personally, I believe this change will split the bowlers into at least two and possibly three groups of bowlers who will not bowl with the others. This will then reduce the size of leagues where as today everyone bowls together (and the good bowlers want more challenge and often bowl an extra league for that). This then will give the appearance that bowling is diminishing yet further which will cause yet another major decline in bowling.
While I like the option of choice sometimes choices are not better. And with the economy and instability in bowling today, I would not risk redefining the already critical and fundamental aspect of bowling (lane conditions and scoring pace) before I resolved the issues of cheating (sandbagging), regulation enforcement and bowling ball issues (that being that bowling balls today are too strong and alter the pattern too much to guarantee that the pattern will not become easier or tougher through out the session).
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Even the Red/White/Blue concept is catering to a small majority of bowlers. I'm sure if bowlers were in favor of Red/White/Blue conditions they would also be interested in Sport/PBA conditions. Therefore I am guessing this move is NOT to interest bowlers in degrees of difficulty. It is a means to justify not giving awards (and the expense involved) and/or a way to generate revenue from additional sanctioning fees for these conditions (just not as much as the Sport/PBA). Leaving the majority of bowlers unawarded and basically still paying even if its some sort of "minimal" membership, but not the full membership we have now. I think this is an effort to create various degrees of membership. With Sport/PBA being top, Red/White/Blue medium membership and everything else minimal membership.
Erin
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Does anyone foresee that secretaries would need to report different averages for the condition bowled? (eg, R189 W185 B180etc) Could be a nightmare! Imagine what tournament directors will go through establishing averages!
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess
Edited on 6/10/2009 7:58 PM
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quote:
Does anyone foresee that secretaries would need to report different averages for the condition bowled? (eg, R189 W185 B180etc) Could be a nightmare! Imagine what tournament directors will go through establishing averages!
This is a very valid point since they don't list Left and Right handed averages (at least for those in our association) or USBC rerated averages (at least in our association) already. How are they going to list more degrees of averages? USBC already cannot handle the various averages they should be posting now.
We have a pretty significant group of bowlers that are habitually switching hands back and forth, back and forth, going from house to house, league to league, scratch (they get on a team under the cap) and handicap and then bowling tournaments outside the association. Without bowl.com listing rerated averages and left and right handed averages what's the whole stinkin' point of us data entering all this? What's the point of gathering years of sandbagging evidence and having USBC back us up with rerated averages if they are not going to post them on bowl.com?
And they want to move onto Red/White/Blue lane conditions. Take care of what's on your plate now, is what I say.
Erin
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USBC is still a joke and will be because they seem like poor business people and not very informed bowlers. They are always behind on what is going on.
The pattern idea seems ok but most places can't put out a consistent shot day to day, or week to week. So how will this be any better. It's a nice idea, but not practical.
At least they stopped trying to band weight holes.....
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" hand, don't step on the lanes without some "