Author Topic: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification (Read 19726 times)

morpheus · « **on:** March 19, 2016, 02:49:11 PM »

Stumbled across this on Facebook...

https://www.change.org/p/united-states-bowling-recertify-the-jackal-and-jackal-carnage-for-usbc-play

WOWZERS · « **Reply #61 on:** March 20, 2016, 03:45:04 PM »

I have never known the USBC to do field testing just because they wanted to of any ball after the USBC approved the ball. I don't remember the USBC ever claiming they do field testing anywhere. I thought that was understood..but maybe I didn't make that clear.

Field testing isn't applied uniformly in the history of the USBC. Maybe this is the tipping point that makes field testing part of the normal process.

morpheus · « **Reply #62 on:** March 20, 2016, 04:03:21 PM »

Quote from: WOWZERS on March 20, 2016, 03:45:04 PM

I have never known the USBC to do field testing just because they wanted to of any ball after the USBC approved the ball. I don't remember the USBC ever claiming they do field testing anywhere. I thought that was understood..but maybe I didn't make that clear.

Field testing isn't applied uniformly in the history of the USBC. Maybe this is the tipping point that makes field testing part of the normal process.

I thought random field testing was part of their process, but if it isn't I don't see how there is any credibility in the certification process. I hope you're wrong about field testing because that means there likely are or have been lots of balls out of compliance in which case what's the point of the rule that's going to be policed randomly by anonymous individuals?

rvmark · « **Reply #63 on:** March 20, 2016, 04:12:36 PM »

I think we all get it Morph, you don't like the USBC and the way it is run. You have made that very clear in multiple threads. I think the point that Wowzers has made is that the rules were broken. Yes maybe just slightly but still the balls were illegal according to the rules. If they did nothing about it that would not be fair either. I don't own any Motiv balls but if I did own one that was affected I wouldn't be upset with the USBC I would be disappointed in Motiv and their QC program.

morpheus · « **Reply #64 on:** March 20, 2016, 04:21:04 PM »

If you're the USBC, do you really want to give people another reason to not bowl because one day your ball is legal and the next day it isn't. Whether you like the organization or not, does this make sense to you guys?

Steven · « **Reply #65 on:** March 20, 2016, 04:42:54 PM »

Quote from: morpheus on March 20, 2016, 04:21:04 PM

If you're the USBC, do you really want to give people another reason to not bowl because one day your ball is legal and the next day it isn't. Whether you like the organization or not, does this make sense to you guys?

I think reasonable people understand that if rules are broken, there have to be repercussions, even if it affects them. Most real bowlers will get the situation and continue to bowl. Others who are looking for reasons not to bowl will eventually quit anyway.

freak761 · « **Reply #66 on:** March 20, 2016, 04:46:42 PM »

Morpheus, it's the USBC. They don't care about losing bowlers, they'll just raise the sanction fees. Problem solved!

WOWZERS · « **Reply #67 on:** March 20, 2016, 05:05:17 PM »

Sorry guys...any rulemaking body, regardless of whether or not the rats are fleeing the Titantic on the way down, has to uphold the set regulations and rules in place. If they don't...the ship sinks that much quicker because you have chaos because NOBODY will listen to any rule.

So we let this one ball slide, where does it stop?

Can I pass the fouline next time by .004 of an inch? Against you Morpheus? Or will you say, nah...you only passed it by .004, its ok?

How about the next rack that comes down against you in play Morpheus only has 9 pins...illegal rack, but the bowler says, hey, we allowed illegal balls, last week the guy passed the foul line, the light went off, but we said heck with it and counted it, why not racks with only 9 pins?

I am shooting a spare, ball goes into the gutter, ball pops out and I get the spare. Illegal, but since we let an illegal ball go, illegal racks, illegal tosses that went past the foul line, now we are going to count a shot that popped out of the gutter as well.

Once you let ONE rule slide, you open the doors to all your rules sliding.

Steven,

You are correct, reasonable people understand there has to be reprecussions. Problem is so many people have an ax to grind against the USBC they want to use this issue against the USBC.

RV

You are 100% correct. My total disappointment in this is not with the USBC, its that the ball company that sold me 2 balls and told me they confirmed to any and all USBC rules, in reality did not.

morpheus · « **Reply #68 on:** March 20, 2016, 05:06:04 PM »

Quote from: freak761 on March 20, 2016, 04:46:42 PM

Morpheus, it's the USBC. They don't care about losing bowlers, they'll just raise the sanction fees. Problem solved!

Unfortunately that's true...I think we need significant change but realize it's unlikely because most members just don't care and go along with the status quo.

freak761 · « **Reply #69 on:** March 20, 2016, 05:16:22 PM »

Exactly, Morpheus. We're not going to listen to the members, we're going to do whatever we want. JUST SEND MONEY!!

morpheus · « **Reply #70 on:** March 20, 2016, 05:22:49 PM »

Quote from: WOWZERS on March 20, 2016, 05:05:17 PM

Sorry guys...any rulemaking body, regardless of whether or not the rats are fleeing the Titantic on the way down, has to uphold the set regulations and rules in place. If they don't...the ship sinks that much quicker because you have chaos because NOBODY will listen to any rule.

So we let this one ball slide, where does it stop?

Can I pass the fouline next time by .004 of an inch? Against you Morpheus? Or will you say, nah...you only passed it by .004, its ok?

How about the next rack that comes down against you in play Morpheus only has 9 pins...illegal rack, but the bowler says, hey, we allowed illegal balls, last week the guy passed the foul line, the light went off, but we said heck with it and counted it, why not racks with only 9 pins?

I am shooting a spare, ball goes into the gutter, ball pops out and I get the spare. Illegal, but since we let an illegal ball go, illegal racks, illegal tosses that went past the foul line, now we are going to count a shot that popped out of the gutter as well.

Once you let ONE rule slide, you open the doors to all your rules sliding.

Steven,

You are correct, reasonable people understand there has to be reprecussions. Problem is so many people have an ax to grind against the USBC they want to use this issue against the USBC.

RV

You are 100% correct. My total disappointment in this is not with the USBC, its that the ball company that sold me 2 balls and told me they confirmed to any and all USBC rules, in reality did not.

Again, I have always stated that Motiv should be held accountable, so please stop with the ridiculous analogies. What I fundamentally don't understand is how the governing body of bowling can stamp a product approved and never field test. So how is there any credibility in the certification process and how is that in the best interest of the sport or their members? If in fact there is not a uniform field test procedure in place, there probably should be to reduce the likelihood members are negatively impacted by products out of compliance.

By the way, there are lots of "legal" balls that are way over the .060 limit after drilling and I personally could care less if they're used against me whether it's a Jackal or any other ball. Go be mad at Motiv...I would like to see the USBC fix the process and make it better for manufacturers and members going forward.

JustRico · « **Reply #71 on:** March 20, 2016, 05:36:46 PM »

^^^NAILED IT^^^

12XSECH · « **Reply #72 on:** March 20, 2016, 05:37:07 PM »

The usbc are a bunch of bumbling fools. Unless they "field tested" every MFS's balls, this test should be void. I'll be bowling in a Easter tournament that IS NOT usbc certified and I'll use the Jackal, just like I used it for that last year. I cant wait for the facts to be leaked to see who paid off who. Gimme a break with the "they are doing their job" If they were doing there job, this would have been detected over a year ago, NOT after 1000's have been sold and used for over a year. All of these companies pay the usbc for their stamp of approval...so they get the fee from the companies, the fee from millions of bowlers, the fees from tournaments and they are still "broke"? When is the last time they certified a lane? Oh thats right..if a house isnt certified then usbc leagues cant bowl there...and if they cant bowl there then the usbc doesnt collect sanctions...so of course EVERY house passes. And the Jackals can still be used in the UBA...nice work usbc....nice work.

freak761 · « **Reply #73 on:** March 20, 2016, 05:40:40 PM »

12XSECH, BINGO!

charlest · « **Reply #74 on:** March 20, 2016, 06:33:27 PM »

Quote from: freak761 on March 20, 2016, 04:46:42 PM

Morpheus, it's the USBC. They don't care about losing bowlers, they'll just raise the sanction fees. Problem solved!

Somehow, unfortunately, I think this is beginning to seem like the bottom line in this discussion.

This is so very sad for all us bowlers who care to be sanctioned and think this is an important facet of bowling. True sanctioning actually means much more than a few simple, stupid, childish awards.

morpheus · « **Reply #75 on:** March 20, 2016, 07:15:52 PM »

Charlest,
I too believe sanctioned bowling is an important aspect of the game and wish there were as much importance put on increasing membership as there is on the sport of bowling. I think the USBC has it backwards, the sport of bowling was very healthy when membership was strong and all the focus on making the sport strong has/will not bring members back. All the USBC apologists will flame me for hating, but the scoreboard doesn't lie as membership has been in a free fall for more than a decade so from my perspective so try something, anything, how much more broken can it be now that we are likely under 1 million members?

Author Topic: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification (Read 19726 times)

morpheus

USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

WOWZERS

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

morpheus

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

rvmark

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

morpheus

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

Steven

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

freak761

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

WOWZERS

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

morpheus

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

freak761

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

morpheus

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

JustRico

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

12XSECH

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

freak761

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

charlest

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification

morpheus

Re: USBC Petition for Jackal Recertification