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Author Topic: USBC possible outlawing balls  (Read 11794 times)

giddyupddp

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USBC possible outlawing balls
« on: December 11, 2017, 11:37:30 PM »
So what are everyone's thoughts on USBC proposals for bowling balls in the future?
Some proposed/rumored changes:

Lowering the allowed maximum differential values of a bowling ball from 0.060 to a number of 0.045.

Restrictions on how absorbent a cover can be - the more absorbent, the faster it can wick oil, generate friction and hook.
 
removed links per the bitch at 11th frame
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 06:55:29 PM by giddyupddp »
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leftybowler70

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2017, 10:50:41 AM »
Lowering the diff, and REDUCING the diff WOULD make it a more playing field where it would take A BOWLERS’ skill as you say to show the SKILS the bowlers really have; Isn’t that what’s it’s about WITHOUT always needing help?

As you say it’s about SKILL, NOT how much help a bowler can have without the skill.
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Juggernaut

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2017, 10:54:11 AM »
Ginormous diffs, ultra low rg’s, asymmetry, and “super” covers are all things that were never needed. Bowling was just fine without them.

 They were ALL a result of USBC being reactive instead of proactive, and the ballcos desire to exploit human nature in order to sell product.

 Now, I’m not ragging the ballcos like I used to. They only did what the public thought they wanted, and they did it WITHIN THE EXISTING RULES. It wasn’t the ballcos fault the rules sucked.

 If you can’t take a medium strength ball, with a medium RG rating, and a diff of .o45 and play 99.9% of all THS shots you will ever see, then the problem isn’t the ball.   :o

 It cannot be said enough: CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION. This, and your physical abilities, are what truly dictates your ability to score.
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charlest

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2017, 11:23:43 AM »
Quote from: Juggernaut on December 12, 2017, 10:54:11 AM
....

 It cannot be said enough: CONDITION, CONDITION, CONDITION. This, and your physical abilities, are what truly dictates your ability to score.

"Condition" can refer to many aspects of bowling. Many people consider only the oil patterns.

I'd suggest a few minor physical changes, that should help restore the concept of "hitting the pocket" to something close to what it used to be.

1. Make sure all gutters on either side of the pin deck are of legal depth or deeper. Most are so shallow these days that they're almost part of the pin deck.

2. Reduce the liveliness of the sideboards at the pin deck. Today, pins explode faster off the side boards than they do when the ball hits them. That will reduce the advantage of pure ball speed. Heck, I'd go so far as to make the side boards absorptive of energy; so pins will never bounce back onto the deck

3. Over time increase the weight of pins from the current Almost balsa wood like weight compared to the power of the current balls. This has to be done over time or too many people will whine.  Maybe it should done only for sport and PBA leagues. Maybe from the current 3 lb. 8 oz./3lb. 10z. to 4 lbs. or maybe even more.
3b. They consider reducing the hollow spaces inside the pin to one instead of 2.

Doing these and let the proprietors oil however they want. I think bowling will require more precision and skill than it does now to post good scores.
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northface28

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2017, 11:30:17 AM »
Quote from: leftybowler70 on December 12, 2017, 10:45:46 AM
Skill doesn’t affect me at all; I ha e PLENTY of that. What is some of the past bowlers’ of all skill levels complain about? (Including the pro’s)   DULL BALLS THAT BLOW UP A PATTERN TOO QUICKLY!

If a pro has a problem with these 500 grit dull pieces that AFFECT the trajectory of the path is goes down (and how soon),  Then who are YOU or anybody else to say it’s not valid in some fashion?

Exactly, Brian Voss was butt hurt he got his dick kicked in and starting behaving like a child to ban dull bowling balls. The problem is when Johnny come lately uses a 500 grit ball throwing it all over the lane. If you can repeat and are breaking them down "the right way", trust me, the "PROS" dont have a problem.
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leftybowler70

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2017, 11:43:15 AM »
You made my point northface 500 grit is called ADVANTAGE, not pure talent as you put it.
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leftybowler70

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2017, 11:44:30 AM »
What happens if he didn’t use that 500, it’s called ‘equal opportunity’.
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northface28

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2017, 11:48:21 AM »
Quote from: leftybowler70 on December 12, 2017, 11:43:15 AM
You made my point northface 500 grit is called ADVANTAGE, not pure talent as you put it.

Is Brian Voss outlawed from using a 500 grit pad on his ball? No. Explain to me how hes at a disadvantage
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giddyupddp

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2017, 11:52:41 AM »
This reminds a lot of how the 460 drivers ruined golf and made golf courses too short, maybe for the pros, but for many it just made the sport a little more fun..... I don't care what rules either golf or bowling makes for the professionals, so if pros whine because of x, y, or z  I don't really care. There can be rules for the PBA that do not have to apply to the masses. USBC is not for professionals and is constituted of a membership that is over 90% not shooting honor scores or have 200+ averages so it always makes me wonder why it is always worrying about these subjects? How about doing something to increase membership?

I don't see how these proposed new rules will help grow bowling? I understand the need for rules but rolling back equipment rules is not going to grow the sport nor give it the elusive integrity that so many whine about. Do what golf did and cap the equipment where it is now and promote sport leagues or different type of house shot leagues for those who want a challenge but to try to go backwards never works. Just my $0.02......
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leftybowler70

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2017, 11:53:13 AM »
I completely understand your point I do; again I’m not talking about who can use what.... to have any resemblance of ‘ integrity’  in this game,  all these low tag, high diff balls, these super rough surfaces ARE NOT NEEDED.

If the game is all about ‘skill’,  why does one need the ‘advantage’  of said things? 
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batbowler

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2017, 11:53:28 AM »
If you notice the bowling center are mostly older, hence older kick backs. USBC has a minimum and maximum setting for flat gutters. It has to be on the local association to enforce these. The kick backs support the pinsetter and to add more cost to owners to replace these with super absorbent kick backs would close most centers. They could have them cover the kick backs with something that absorbs the energy, but once again, it's an added cost to the owners. I don't see very many messengers with my 15-16mph ball speed, but I do with these young guys in the 18+ mph ball speed. With the high performance equipment coupled with high rev and ball speed, I see more messengers with them. The few two handed bowlers I have seen, they have wicked sick messengers! I don't think making changes in kick backs and gutters with really hurt the high rev, high ball speed players as much as the slower speed, lower rev players. As the bowling world is getting older, me included, I don't think a lot will change our game. I would prefer weaker bowling ball for myself and rely more on being accurate and making better shots. The stronger bowling balls have hurt my game more than helped. Just my $.02, Bruce
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leftybowler70

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2017, 11:55:30 AM »
Giddyup, you make a great assessment very well stated.
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leftybowler70

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2017, 11:57:51 AM »
Quote from: batbowler on December 12, 2017, 11:53:28 AM
If you notice the bowling center are mostly older, hence older kick backs. USBC has a minimum and maximum setting for flat gutters. It has to be on the local association to enforce these. The kick backs support the pinsetter and to add more cost to owners to replace these with super absorbent kick backs would close most centers. They could have them cover the kick backs with something that absorbs the energy, but once again, it's an added cost to the owners. I don't see very many messengers with my 15-16mph ball speed, but I do with these young guys in the 18+ mph ball speed. With the high performance equipment coupled with high rev and ball speed, I see more messengers with them. The few two handed bowlers I have seen, they have wicked sick messengers! I don't think making changes in kick backs and gutters with really hurt the high rev, high ball speed players as much as the slower speed, lower rev players. As the bowling world is getting older, me included, I don't think a lot will change our game. I would prefer weaker bowling ball for myself and rely more on being accurate and making better shots. The stronger bowling balls have hurt my game more than helped. Just my $.02, Bruce


Yesss someone gets it ^^^^^
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Gene J Kanak

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #28 on: December 12, 2017, 11:59:18 AM »
I love how the same people who have bashed USBC for not doing enough to regulate the scoring environment are also the ones complaining about these proposed changes. Would it have been nice if these things had been done years ago? Sure, but as I've said over and over again, high scoring paces are NOT what has hurt the sport. Bowlers are two-faced as all hell. Many say that they want lower scores, yet they're the first ones to complain after they shoot 580 for a few weeks in a row. The game has suffered because time has past it by. There are 50,000 recreational activities, both real and online, that people can be involved in these days; that wasn't the case 30 years ago. Also, getting younger bowlers to commit to a 33-week season just isn't a thing like it used to be.

Lastly, in regard to skill level, outside of the league environment, the best bowlers with the most talent still win 99.9% of the time. Sure, if you put them on a house shot where ANYBODY can score, the playing field becomes more level, but in truly competitive environments (Open Championships, PBA, big money events), the best bowlers still win because they're the most skilled.
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tommygn

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2017, 12:00:11 PM »
Fact: A 900 was shot with an IQ Tour Gold, 0.029 pre-drilled differential.

Fact: A 900 was shot with a Hustle Ink, 0.030 pre-drilled differential.

The only thing lowering the diff in balls will do, is even further the advantage the high rev rate spray and pray guys have on these over-walled house shots, that high flare balls can blend out for the average or below average rev-rate bowlers.

Oil absorption rate is not even close to being the primary factor in hook potential. Footprint of the point of contact of lane and ball, and CoF dictate hook much much more than oil absorption of the ball.



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northface28

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Re: USBC possible outlawing balls
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2017, 12:07:18 PM »
Quote from: batbowler on December 12, 2017, 11:53:28 AM
If you notice the bowling center are mostly older, hence older kick backs. USBC has a minimum and maximum setting for flat gutters. It has to be on the local association to enforce these. The kick backs support the pinsetter and to add more cost to owners to replace these with super absorbent kick backs would close most centers. They could have them cover the kick backs with something that absorbs the energy, but once again, it's an added cost to the owners. I don't see very many messengers with my 15-16mph ball speed, but I do with these young guys in the 18+ mph ball speed. With the high performance equipment coupled with high rev and ball speed, I see more messengers with them. The few two handed bowlers I have seen, they have wicked sick messengers! I don't think making changes in kick backs and gutters with really hurt the high rev, high ball speed players as much as the slower speed, lower rev players. As the bowling world is getting older, me included, I don't think a lot will change our game. I would prefer weaker bowling ball for myself and rely more on being accurate and making better shots. The stronger bowling balls have hurt my game more than helped. Just my $.02, Bruce

Good points, the "old guard" wanting these changes are actually hurting themselves.
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