Author Topic: USBC proposal (Read 3210 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **on:** May 06, 2005, 05:34:33 PM »

Something crossed my mind tonight while I was thinking about the proposed rule changes.

What happens to a company's blems now? I mean the ones where the CG is mismarked, or the pin is extremely LONG. They would basically make these balls illegal, correct? If that is the case then a company would be stuck with them.

-EX-

azguy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 07, 2005, 05:33:30 AM »

To take this one step...what happens to the sites that sell blems, Bonanzas, you know who they are, I'm not using names, but what happens if they sell you a ball, not tell you it's a blem ?

What about Storm and the " Pro Pins" or as one site calls them now, "X Pins" ? How will a distributor deal with a ball that is sold to them that has a 'long' pin ? I can see a lot of dollars being lost at different levels by this proposal.
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AZ Guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net
www.rlbowlerspro.com

Sleep is over rated.

freak761 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 07, 2005, 07:30:44 AM »

EX, these proposals are a mess and I remembered aa article I read in the BJI a while back with Storm's Bill Chrisman. He did lane certifications and inspections before he became a ball manufacturer and he said in that article and I quote "I've put down a condition on which you're going to have a hard time shooting 200; and I can put out a condition on which you're going to have a hard time NOT shooting 200." Wouldn't it be easier to get tougher on lane patterns, instead of creating this gigantic mess with the ball companies??

joegunn · « **Reply #3 on:** May 07, 2005, 08:31:56 AM »

If enacted, these rules will affect the ball companies because they have to begin adding the USBC logo and making sure the other markings are correct. But other than the competitive tournament bowler, it won't make a difference for the average Jack and Jill league bowler.

Today, you can bowl in any league in the Philadelphia area, use a ball with a 3 oz. side weight or some other illegal static weight, shoot an honor score and get your award, because nobody from the association will ever see the ball because they don't make it a practice to check them. Going forward, I don't expect the USBC to send reps to the bowling centers to check equipment at the door, so realistically, if you own a ball that is round, it'll still be "legal" for league play. The only way it will become an issue is if someone in the league complains.

RevZiLLa · « **Reply #4 on:** May 07, 2005, 10:44:23 AM »

Someone tell me...are the leaders of the USBC the same people who were the leaders of the failed organizations that it replaced? Is this just a concentration of power into the hands of the same people who have failed our sport?

JUST WHAT ARE THE CREDENTIALS OF THESE PEOPLE? I have gone to bowl.com and read the bios of the USBC Board and I am not impressed.

The BPAA will probably have to step up and start sanctioning

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ZiLLa=======================

stormed1 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 07, 2005, 11:31:25 AM »

Ball companies can still make balls that will meet the requirements and still have mass bas locations. But I think the cost would go throuh the roof as the would then need balls with left and right handed mass bias.

The other thing about this new proposal which sucks is that it will hurt the bowler that needs help to make his ball work ( i.e.: hand challengd). The ability of a good pro shop to position the weight block to help that bowler and add a weight hole to adjust the reaction is a vital tool. The ABC/USBC created this scoring monster with their lane conditions allowing centers to put up the great wall and still call it legal. Make the shot tougher where you need to be a bowler/shotmaker raher than a thrower who only has 3 boards to hit and they all have arrows on them.Another option would be to limit the number of balls allowed to be used in a single league session to 4 where someone could bring an oil ball / med ball / dry ball and a spare ball rather than 10 or 12 and that would make adjusting where and how you throw more important than just changing to a different ball.

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #6 on:** May 08, 2005, 11:42:37 AM »

Revzilla,

Pretty much the same people are running things.

This move (abc to usbc) seems to be more about money than anything else.

I am not sure how many of you have heard this, but I have heard that there will no longer be awards issued (rings) every year for the same score. If you shoot 300 you get one ring for your life time. The way it was presented to me was one ring for every score.

So take a look at the money they save there.......then if they make companies pay to have their logos on a ball there is more money.

It is all about the $$$$$$

-EX-

10 In The Pit · « **Reply #7 on:** May 12, 2005, 12:12:33 AM »

Precision, I decided to email the link that you provided and I voiced my disapproval on the technical issues regarding ball change proposals, and surprisingly I did receive a reply from them! Apparently someone is listening to what the comments are, but I can't say how far up the food chain the comments will go.

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #8 on:** May 12, 2005, 11:16:28 AM »

10in the pit,

What did your return email say? There was a thread on here a few days ago and I guess everyone is getting the same response.

-EX-

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2005, 11:42:27 AM »

Precision,

I couldn't agree more!!!

-EX-

Borincano · « **Reply #10 on:** May 12, 2005, 12:50:29 PM »

I have been keeping track of all the aspects of bowling for the past 3 three years. That is how long I have been bowling. During the 1960's and 1970's. I will watch some of the bowling action on TV. No bowling centers where I lived or closed by so I did not get into bowling at an early age. What I will try to bring up is that today's bowler's have more knowledge of what bowling is all about and physical more stronger. As in all sports events as time goes by there will be advances in technics and equipment.

In the 1960's in my home town we had 2 guys (high school) that had a very perculiar way in doing their track and field events. One day they were going against a track and field team from another town which had coaches and the latest equipment in running shoes. The high jump event was on and the 2 guys from out of town were jumping and ask why our home town kid was not jumping. He said, "I will let you know when I jump." So they got up to 6'4" and the kid said, "Now I will jump." He did the jump, at that time, what is known now as the Fosbury Flop. They went crazy saying that is was not a legal jump. He cleared the bar with more inches to spare over the bar. They said that he needed to do the jump with the straddle style. The other kid was running the 100 meters bare footed. They laugh when they saw him. Short cut off pants and without proper running shoes. They went to the starting line. 3 against 1. The 3 guys bent down into their starting blocks and the kid just stood up digging his feet. The starting gun fire and the kid took 3 jumps forward and he was gone. These 10 something second guys could not catch him. They also said that his starting stance and way was not right. They void bought wins in the high jump and 100 meter run.

That it what is happening here. Some people cannot stand other people leaving them behind because of the way they accomplish the events. They are set in a place in time and cannot stand going forward in a progressive manner. The present bowling structure is still behind in there ways and that is why our sports of bowling cannot get a good push forward into the future.

It is not the balls or the way they are layout the reason for the high scores. It is because the present bowlers know more about how to bowl and prepare their equipment. This does not mean that the bowlers from the past were not good but things change as time goes by. The USBC should look in the good of the future of bowling and not at the wimps that cannot keep up with progress.

Has anybody have thought that our nation, the USA, is the youngest nation in the world with the biggest progress compared against nations that have been in this world for thousands of years. That is what bowling has to be. A progressive and dynamic sports event. Starting with no smoking in any bowling center and proper lane conditions.

cgilyeat · « **Reply #11 on:** May 12, 2005, 02:02:57 PM »

Borincano,

While I think that a lot of what you say correct, I have to disagree with the assertion that technology is not the problem (or at least part of it).

quote:

That it what is happening here. Some people cannot stand other people leaving them behind because of the way they accomplish the events. They are set in a place in time and cannot stand going forward in a progressive manner. The present bowling structure is still behind in there ways and that is why our sports of bowling cannot get a good push forward into the future.

It is not the balls or the way they are layout the reason for the high scores. It is because the present bowlers know more about how to bowl and prepare their equipment. This does not mean that the bowlers from the past were not good but things change as time goes by. The USBC should look in the good of the future of bowling and not at the wimps that cannot keep up with progress.

I really don't believe that fear of progress is the issue here. What the issue is (I think), is the dramatic score inflation and the fact that relatively little skill is required to get those scores. Part of the problem is that Joe Bowler does not want to really understand bowling. He wants to go to league each week, throw the ball the same way and get high scores. All this without any work. Bowling balls, by themselves are not the entire problem, but combined with the technology improvements and the THS walls, have created an environment where no real skill is required to get those scores. I really don't think the changes being proposed will "fix" the problem. The fixes must address oil patterns, pin weight, etc as well. Maybe it's a start, but I'm not sure it's the correct one.

I grew up bowling in the 60's and while my average is higher now, does that make me a better bowler? I really don't think that I'm better now, but I do have a lot more knowledge about the game and a better understanding on how to use it. But I still think that the current environment has created bowlers who can average high on the THS without really understanding anything other than getting the latest ball, stand left and throw strikes. But, put them on a demanding pattern, whether it's a PBA shot, or the ABC National shot, and they are lost. They just don't understand how much skill it takes to get those scores when the lanes/balls can't help you.

I'm not against technology and advancement, but I do want to see bowling become a sport where it requires some skill to achieve a high average and honor scores.

Steven · « **Reply #12 on:** May 12, 2005, 04:34:46 PM »

Additional food for thought:

Ebonite's response:

http://www.ebonite.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=186

Brunswick's response:

http://brunswickftp.com/Product%20info/USBC%20proposed%20rule%20changes.pdf
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "

No Fear · « **Reply #13 on:** May 12, 2005, 06:12:36 PM »

First let me say I'm a senior & former PBA bowler....Technology has effected all sports....Why stop it?

.....I think its good for the game....The American way has always been"How do You build a better Mouse Trap"....In my opinion technology makes the game more fun?....So what that a PAR GAME is now 220 compared to 30 years ago when it was 200....the game today is much more mental because of ball choices & ever changing conditions....Also better coaching of technique has resulted in more powerful releases....the "genie" is out of the bottle... if the USBC makes these changes it will not lower scores But only cause bowlers to quit & cause proshops to suffer & make costs increase across the board for everyone....Remember the people in charge at the USBC are the same people that have lost membership for the last 30 years....This means this administration is CLUELESS...They are making proposals with no "Science" to back it up....telling bowlers to throw away millions of dollars of equipment will excelerate bowlings decline....Bowling needs New leadership....This leadership needs some Youth in key positions....The World is evolving....Let It!!!!

Borincano · « **Reply #14 on:** May 13, 2005, 10:02:14 AM »

cgilyeat,

What you describe below is what we need. Not to put THS but to put demanding conditions. I can go with that. Last year I participated in a PBA Challenge doubles league that each Tuesday they will put down a different pattern and of the 8 teams I finished third. Some so called good bowlers did not want to get into it. Why?? League play should be like that because that is the road to being really a succesful bowler. In my town there is a bowling center that is being flocked because it has the easiest shot in town. Lots of good scores, rings and etc. But when they bowl in another bowling center they are lost in space. Standarized league play with USBC or PBA patterns and the sports of bowling will be set into the future.

Get rid of the THS and it will raise the bar of who really likes the challenge of bowling.

PS- 3 weeks into my PBA Challenge I had to bowl the rest of the season alone. Could not find another parther. Then it got really challenging for this 58 year old guy with only 2 years of bowling under my belt last year. Still learning and trying my best. Love this damn sport!!!! This summer trying a new approach and the use of different hand releases. Taught to me by a one PBA pro lady in Florida. Will report back to her my summer league results. Good luck to all the good folks here and many thanks for the help they have given me.

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I grew up bowling in the 60's and while my average is higher now, does that make me a better bowler? I really don't think that I'm better now, but I do have a lot more knowledge about the game and a better understanding on how to use it. But I still think that the current environment has created bowlers who can average high on the THS without really understanding anything other than getting the latest ball, stand left and throw strikes. But, put them on a demanding pattern, whether it's a PBA shot, or the ABC National shot, and they are lost. They just don't understand how much skill it takes to get those scores when the lanes/balls can't help you.

Author Topic: USBC proposal (Read 3210 times)

C-G ProShop-Carl

USBC proposal

azguy

Re: USBC proposal

freak761

Re: USBC proposal

joegunn

Re: USBC proposal

RevZiLLa

Re: USBC proposal

stormed1

Re: USBC proposal

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: USBC proposal

10 In The Pit

Re: USBC proposal

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: USBC proposal

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: USBC proposal

Borincano

Re: USBC proposal

cgilyeat

Re: USBC proposal

Steven

Re: USBC proposal

No Fear

Re: USBC proposal

Borincano

Re: USBC proposal