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Author Topic: usbc sportshot crap  (Read 20415 times)

tfav44

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usbc sportshot crap
« on: April 20, 2008, 05:12:34 AM »
is anyone else sick of the sportshot crap the usbc keeps shoving at us, I have read that league bowling membership is declining, iknow that this is true in my area. I live in mich. and the decline of the auto industry is having a huge impact on our leagues.Jobs, Money, and time are tight so guys are having to cut back. the usbc is basically ignoring normal house leagues and is pushing pba experience and sport leagues. the thing is we don't have the time and disposable income to devote to having all this extra equipment and practice time. everyone on my team averages over 200, we have all decided to cut back to once a week bowling. we tired of the usbc telling us that what we are doing doesn't measure up and for the "integrity of the game we should switch to a pba exp. league.
thats my rant
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novawagonmaster

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2008, 04:06:48 PM »
quote:

My point exactly..lol

What do avg on a "Easy" house shot ? Prob 200 or a little over. But I bet the top guy in league is around 220 or so, correct ?

If it is so easy or hardly a challange (as you said), Why don't you avg 250+ ?

If it is so easy or hardly a challange (as you said), why even bowl in it ?
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302,
I have to disagree with you on this one.

I happen to know a guy who did average almost 250 for a whole season (in two leagues), and quit because bowling was too easy.

We had a PBA league for one lousy year. Not enough participation to continue the next year. Nobody wanted to know just how bad they really were, and most of those who found out by trying, did not want to do it again.

I suck. I have alot to learn, and should practice more than I do. I average 218 on the THS, and the high average in the house is 225. If I could carry one more strike per game, I would be at the top of the pecking order. I am not that good. I do not deserve to be averaging much over 200, let alone nearly 220. THS bowling allows bad shots to hit the pocket. Carry determines the winner. Sport bowling does not reward bad shots. You miss right, you hit the 3 pin in the face. You miss left, you go through the nose. It's not hard to figure the patterns out, you just have to execute consistently.

To answer your last question (Why bowl in it?), it's the only option we have now. I would have to drive nearly an hour to get to the closest center that hosts a PBA league these days. It is just not realistic for me to do that.
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Strapper_Squared

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2008, 04:08:01 PM »
Our house has 1 "PBA-type" league (I say that because our dinosaur lane machine isn't really capable of laying out a PBA shot).  Its a little less-forgiving than the house shot, but the real difference is the volume of oil on the lanes.  Anyways, we are in danger of losing so many bowlers that I doubt the league will be around next season.  The reason?  The "better" bowlers in the area are upset with throwing 180 and 190 games.  Everyone wants to close their eyes and throw the ball out somewhere and watch it come back and average 210+.

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tfav44

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2008, 04:14:12 PM »
Our association has one PBA league and it has 18 members in it. Though we have nearly 200 leagues. The point isn't that the majority are "chicken" to bowl on tougher conditions. Its just not that popular or as popular as USBC would have everyone believe. What bugs me is that all the attention from USBC goes to Sport and PBA leagues, those that choose to NOT bowl on Sport/PBA are belittled (especially on forums like these), told their accomplishments are not worthy, while the their sanctioning is the vast majority of income going to USBC. I think USBC needs to treat Joe and Jane bowler with a bit more respect then constantly being told their conditions are too easy and that they should bowl a Sport/PBA league.

I'm glad that those that want Sport/PBA leagues have them available to them. Enjoy them as just another aspect of this sport.

Erin
this is my point thanks erin. the majority of dues payed(usbc income) is in regular leagues. yet regular leagues are basically ignored, check the usbc site. the main thing is i love to bowl but don't like the usbc's marketing stratagy. with the economy in the crapper they need to look in other ways to grow the sport
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tfav44
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zone

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2008, 04:26:16 PM »
i welcome the "sport shots" cuz its the only time i get to bowl in oil.
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BOWLGNUT

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2008, 04:32:15 PM »
There is another league that is if it is still around.Which is a traveling league where the league bowls in different houses with wood lanes as well as synthelic as well.With different houses have diferent lane conditions by playing first arrow to fourth arrow.Your house you play a shot that you are comfortable with and end up playing a different shot in a other house.Also this goes when you bowl in a other state.
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EagleHunter

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2008, 04:46:57 PM »
tfav44,
You seem to be missing the point, which is surprising since you just made it:  "[USBC] need to look in other ways to grow the sport"

USBC is attempting to do just that...grow the SPORT. The vast majority of leagues certified through USBC are by most definitions fun, non-competitive leagues that fall WAY outside of what any knowledgeable observer would consider SPORT.

As the National Governing Body (NGB) of the SPORT, USBC's main task is to find ways to grow the Sport, not necessarily the recreation, which is what most of certified bowling has become.

The problem is that most don't want to compete under Sport conditions, yet they expect to be recognized and rewarded as if they are.  Does a score shot under Sport conditions make it more valid than a similar score shot under Typical House Shot (THS) conditions?  ABSOLUTELY.

If there is anyone that thinks otherwise...well I would refer back to the KNOWLEDGEABLE observer part above.

Neptune66

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2008, 05:15:15 PM »
I think there are two separate issues here:

1) Availability of a Sport Shot

2) The snobbish attitude of SOME of the better bowlers and posters to this forum.

Regarding #1): I average around 200 in one house, yet struggle with only a 173 average in another. Last summer I tried out the Sport Shot a few times and to me.... it was in-between the two houses I frequent the most.  Not as easy as the 200 house, but easier than whatever crap pattern is being laid out at the other one.

At least I knew when I released the ball on the Sport Shot, where it would end up. Might not be a good shot or carry as well as I liked, but I got what I deserved... no robbery and no breaks. I WOULD like to bowl on it some more, but do not want to replace my favorite house shot with it. So... mixed feelings, but am open to it as an alternative.

Regarding #2): It is a real turn off when I read some of the comments and put downs here about those of us bowling on an "easy" shot. First of all, regardless of the shot, easy for one is hard for someone else, and visa versa. A bowler with lots of speed and lower revs is probably laughing at the posts from the people here who whine about not enough oil. And conversely, someone with tons of revs and slower speed, probably finds those of you who complain about too much oil or carrydown to be whiners.

What ever happened to "to each his own"?

When I am bowling next to novice bowlers and see them getting all excited about the slightest little success. Or see them celebrating one stupid shot as if they just won a PBA title (or the Superbowl, World Series, etc.) I kind of shake my head at their silliness, but I do not begrudge them their happiness or make comments about how pathetic their scores are. Or say anything (even behind their backs) about how the lanes must be too easy if someone like that can get a strike or score more than an 100 or 80 or whatever, etc...

All I am trying to say (and I think a minority [so far] of those responding to this thread would agree with me) is that wanting or endorsing the Sport Shot or PBA Shot leagues is fine. But neither the USBC nor the "better bowlers" out there should be promoting it by putting down the average (or even below average) Joes and Janes, and belittling their accomplishments.

I am MORE likely to want to try my hand at a tougher shot after my confidence is increased from success on a more conventional shot. If I'm failing and getting frustrated on the "easy" shot, why on earth would I even attempt the tougher shot?

In other words... both the easy and hard[er] shots should be seen as complimenting each other. Not mutually exclusive.

My 12 cents in this.

Edited on 4/20/2008 5:17 PM

Edited on 4/20/2008 5:21 PM

BeansProShop

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2008, 05:17:25 PM »
I have an idea....

Get your PBA card an bowl some tournaments!

The oil machine and the oil as well as the volume of oil is very different than what you bowl on in you "PBA" leagues...

Trust me...

Regionals play very different than the PBA Experience leagues. The patterns play different on different surfaces as well.

If you really want to engage in the "SPORT" of bowling. Just bowl a Regional as a guest and you will see.

Beans
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Strider

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2008, 05:23:41 PM »
Gee Beans, way to make Neptune's second point.  
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novawagonmaster

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #25 on: April 20, 2008, 05:28:33 PM »
quote:
I have an idea....

Get your PBA card an bowl some tournaments!

The oil machine and the oil as well as the volume of oil is very different than what you bowl on in you "PBA" leagues...

Trust me...

Regionals play very different than the PBA Experience leagues. The patterns play different on different surfaces as well.

If you really want to engage in the "SPORT" of bowling. Just bowl a Regional as a guest and you will see.

Beans
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
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Thanks for reading and be sure to check us out at the Lane#1 booth in Albuquerque. Check out current eBay auctions at:
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There is also a big difference between paying $15 per week for a local PBA league and $300 per event to bowl regional tournaments!

Like I said, I know where I stand, and I would be donating every time I shoed up for a regional. I still want to bowl one eventually just for the experience. That said, I enjoy the tougher conditions and would like to bowl on them weekly so I can measure my improvement. Measuring improvement on a THS is not a matter of improving accuracy. It is a matter of increasing rev rate to improve carry.
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BeansProShop

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #26 on: April 20, 2008, 05:40:17 PM »
quote:
Gee Beans, way to make Neptune's second point.  
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I was not trying to degrade anything or anyone but the true SPORT of the game is more than 3 games a week in league. I was trying to put focus on the differences in the conditions and the stamina needed to bowl that many games.  Sometimes words read different than implied. I am sorry if I offended anyone.

With that said.... I really enjoy both avenues. I love bowling on the great wall of china and padding my Hall of Fame numbers but I also like bowling tournaments.

I enjoy tourneys that are shoot outs just the same as bowling regionals..

I just love bowling any way it is handed to me. After almost having career ending arthritis invade my body. I am just happy to bowl whenever and on whatever I can.

Thanks
beans
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Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
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Thanks for reading and be sure to check us out at the Lane#1 booth in Albuquerque. Check out current eBay auctions at:
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Edited on 4/20/2008 5:42 PM
Looking for a great place to sell your bowling equipment?? Auction style,Fixed Price and FREE For A Limited Time! Try www.bestintheworldauctions.com and to Purchase The "Secret Sauce" visit www.beansproshop.com
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charlest

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #27 on: April 20, 2008, 06:12:03 PM »
quote:
I have an idea....

Get your PBA card an bowl some tournaments!

The oil machine and the oil as well as the volume of oil is very different than what you bowl on in you "PBA" leagues...

Trust me...

Regionals play very different than the PBA Experience leagues. The patterns play different on different surfaces as well.

If you really want to engage in the "SPORT" of bowling. Just bowl a Regional as a guest and you will see.

Beans
--------------------
www.beansproshop.com
--------------------
Thomas "Beans" Biniek Jr.
PBA Member and Lane#1 Ball Drilling Expert
Thanks for reading and be sure to check us out at the Lane#1 booth in Albuquerque. Check out current eBay auctions at:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=bowling_with_leah
Official Pro Shop of "ALL" F.O.S. Members!!!



I wonder if the point you're making is they play different when you have to play the 8 game transition, rather than the 3 or 4 game transition of a PBA experience shot. That is a MAJOR difference. The 8 game transition is or can be BRUTAL.

But most houses do do their best in applying the PBA patterns to their house's lane surfaces.

There is a major problem when those patterns are applied to wood or, worse, yet, old worn, wood houses. I've seen that. Every different PBA pattern becomes the same shot. That is wrong and fruitless.

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charlest

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #28 on: April 20, 2008, 06:18:27 PM »
I was not intending to put down any bowler in any league. I can sub in my old home house (in which I will not set foot in again, until they install synthetic lanes) where the "shot" is harder than any PBA or sport shot anywhere. But since it is entirley unintentional, I do not regard this as bowling.

What I was intending on attacking in tfav44's original post was the apparent attempt to take away USBC's, however flawed and feble it is, experiment to restore some integrity to scoring with PBA and sport patterns, WHEN BOWLERS WISH TO PARTICIPATE IN THEM. Not allowing these leagues to happen is, at the least, an injustice, based on ignorance. At the worst, it is myopic and destructive to bowling.

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302efi

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #29 on: April 20, 2008, 08:08:46 PM »
What I don't understand is you get all these users on here and other bowling forums saying how easy it is on a THS. They b!tch and complain how easy it is...but do complain when they shoot a good score or win some money ?

No, they don't

They only complain when they get beat or didnt bowl well and the high-rev, high-speed bowler mopped the floor with them.

Whats odd is most of these guys saying how easy THS is, are hardly putting a 200 avg ?! If its so easy, why can't you avg higher then that ?!?!

Being a high-rev bowler I get carry that the low revers don't..Through the nose, light hits ....I mean, I have room to play with on a THS...just don't be mad when you can't do the same, then complain the game is easy...If its so easy, why don't you shoot higher? Oh, its easy when I get good carry, right ?

BS

Most of the easy complainers are "older" (gotta becareful here ) that don't have power games...How many high-rev bowlers actually complain about THS ?

...and for the record, I DID bowl in my local center PBA exp league. I ended the season with  192 avg.

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EagleHunter

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Re: usbc sportshot crap
« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2008, 10:22:22 PM »
So if all of you claim to know the difference between the Pros' and your own averages, then answer the ALL IMPORTANT QUESTION:

Does it really matter if your average is 20-30 pins less (using the Sport average scale)?

No one is telling you that you need to practice longer or harder...unless, of course, you actually WANT to get better.  But to continue to cry about any attempts to make scoring more credible?  If you know the difference and yet you still demand the THS, then you merely want to continue the charade that is your own ability.

USBC is tasked with making the SPORT viable again.  They simply cannot do that if Joe Bowler is out there (anywhere) outscoring the professionals.  The mass media and the general public have no clue about the difficulties about lane conditioning, nor do they care, they only see the Pros being outscored by that local guy down the street.  Yeah, that will sure bring in more corporate money and respect for the sport.