Author Topic: usbc sportshot crap (Read 20873 times)

tfav44 · « **on:** April 20, 2008, 05:12:34 AM »

is anyone else sick of the sportshot crap the usbc keeps shoving at us, I have read that league bowling membership is declining, iknow that this is true in my area. I live in mich. and the decline of the auto industry is having a huge impact on our leagues.Jobs, Money, and time are tight so guys are having to cut back. the usbc is basically ignoring normal house leagues and is pushing pba experience and sport leagues. the thing is we don't have the time and disposable income to devote to having all this extra equipment and practice time. everyone on my team averages over 200, we have all decided to cut back to once a week bowling. we tired of the usbc telling us that what we are doing doesn't measure up and for the "integrity of the game we should switch to a pba exp. league.
thats my rant
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tfav44
twisted fury
eraser boost
hot rod super sport pearl
a bad night of bowling is better than a good night at work.
every frame is a opportunity to succeed!
www.virginiabeachtraveltips.com

n00dlejester · « **Reply #166 on:** April 24, 2008, 05:32:27 AM »

If somebody doesn't know the difference between a THS and a sport/PBA pattern, then don't let it bother you. Just b/c they have an honor score or 40 doesn't mean they're good bowlers. I always tell my dad this and he never believes me: "A high score doesn't necessarily mean you're bowling well." You can get good breaks all day, but it is usually the bowler with better form that comes out on top at the end of the day.

And sure there may be less sanctioned bowlers or less multiple league bowlers, but those who have stuck around are probably much more enthusiastic about the game. All the guys who left were recreational bowlers who moved on. And I think by promoting the PBA Experience leagues at houses where available, the difference between THS and PBA patterns will become known and that knowledge will spread. It's going to be a slow process, but growth and education always is.

Edited on 4/24/2008 5:34 AM

Krakken · « **Reply #167 on:** April 24, 2008, 07:32:55 AM »

quote:
quote:
For all of you idiots that cry a THS is too easy, I hope you average better than a 700 each night. Otherwise you are some lousy bowlers.

My THS is not hard, but it sure isn't easy. and most of the THS patters i have bowled on are not easy, but they aren't PBA or sport conditions.

People comparing THS with Sport an PBA conditions are way off. Like comparing Agustan National greens to your local muni, for the pros it would be a cakewalk, for the average joes, not too hard, not overly easy.

Your 3rd paragraph is all that I am trying suggest. We have a lot of bowlers thinking a "THS 300" or "THS 700" is the same achievement as a "Sport 300" or "Sport 700". THS is different. There are more challenges to be made (You have not achieved everything bowling has to offer).

quote:
Stop putting down people and their accomplishments. That is what is helping destroy the game. If you are too good for a THS, then don't bowl on it. But don't put others down for it.

I am not stating to put anyone down on their accomplishment. They need to put in perspective. All of you against me on this think I am putting them down but that is not my intention. As Jess stated earlier post "bowlers need to be educated!".

Anyone who has bowled a 300 game or 800 series on a THS. Congratulations!!! Welcome to the Bowlers Hall of Fame. But don't get it in your head that its the same as SPORT or PBA. Yes it has element of challenge but it has been reduced or made easier.

Is that the problem....the word "easy". Do we need to come up with a better word so we don't offend you with the truth?

What if the USBC was to give 300 and 800 awards for NO TAP. It is an accomplishment to bowl these.....right? There would be some bowlers averaging 260+. Getting the same awards. Lets give 300 rings to everyone for their high score games and series in NO TAP.

NO TAP is obvious (A single pin standing...STRIKE!!). THS is invisible to most bowlers. They have NO CLUE what you are talking about.

Example: There is a guy that subs for my team in our mixed league. Hasn't bowled in weeks. Doesn't practice. Probably has bowled a total of 12 games all season. With a 140 something average...last week bowls a 245 game.

Great for us! We crushed the other team. Hard for the other team to make up 100 pins just from one bowler on our team.

Was he on for the night?....Nope!....He was all over the place....maybe had two strikes in row that looked like the same throw......Did I say anything to him?....Nope!.....Just congratulated him on his performance. If did say something it would not have been received well, because he doesn't know what I would be talking about.

Bowling is something that should be tough. That's why hate bumpers for kids. Its all about score and making them feel better instead of work hard and improve.

When there are so many high scores shot....they don't mean anything. It used to be something to watch someone bowl a 300. The league would get quiet...everyone wanted to see perfection.

That doesn't happen too much anymore. Why is that? Because it has been done so many times before. It's not as special. Congratulations are given but the place doesn't erupted into cheers like it used to. That's sad.

Look at the garbage in New York with the whole 900 series! That should be enough to say "Okay! We had our fun, now let's get this game back on the right track." The PBA did it after the 90's.

If you know that your honor scores on a PBA pattern are better than theirs, then why do you feel the need to down them? That is one of the biggest problems is bowling today. Sport bowlers (most, but not all) think they are better than the house guy. Why? because he doesn't want to bowl on the Sport shot? He might be able to kick your butt on a Sport shot, but jsut doesn't want to deal wioth the EGOs in the Sport league (and there are a lot being shown on this board).

Let people who want to just bowl THS leagues and think they are on par with the PBA guys think that. Who does it hurt? (and dont' say the sport, because downing them hurts the sport more) When people start looking down their noses at the league guys who have 4 and 5 honor scores a year and bashing them, it hurts the game. May make you feel better about yourself, but if you need that then you need to take a look inside at you.

Why do we need to fix the game because one house puts out a cakewalk shot that one guy shoots a 900 on? Why does it bother you so much? If you are a sport bowler, then you know your 700 on a soprt shot is better than a THS 900, and so do the bowlers that bowl in Sport leagues.

And Jorge, great you avg 233 on a THS. It still doesn't man it is too easy for eveyone, Instead of trying to make the game change to fit you, stop bowling THS leagues and just bowl sport and PBA Ex. Then you don't have to deal wit the house guys.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #168 on:** April 24, 2008, 07:44:57 AM »

quote:
And Jorge, great you avg 233 on a THS. It still doesn't man it is too easy for eveyone, Instead of trying to make the game change to fit you, stop bowling THS leagues and just bowl sport and PBA Ex. Then you don't have to deal wit the house guys.

If you read through these 8 pages now, you see I'm not trying to make the game fit me, people are trying to find a way to grow the SPORT of bowling, which seems lost on a few you. Football is a game, but it is also a SPORT. Same for bowling. For those that want to enjoy the game of bowling, join a mixed league bowl on your THS shot, go Cosmic bowling and have fun. But some of us would like to enjoy the SPORT of bowling which means there needs to be some challenge there.

And I would love nothing more then to bowl a Sport league or a PBA Experience league, but there are none in my area. So I have no choice. And just so you know, even with my 233 average, I know I suck, how many of you can say the same?!?
--------------------
Jorge300

n00dlejester · « **Reply #169 on:** April 24, 2008, 07:53:18 AM »

If we want the sport to grow, go check out the ABT (www.abtbowling.com). I heard it's very competitive and fun. If there's no chapter in your region, maybe you can petition to start one up. I think I may do the same thing here in central/northern NJ. The closest by me is South Jersey/Philly and it's unfortunately well over an hour away for the closest tourney

But I'm hoping as time goes, this organization will grow.

EagleHunter · « **Reply #170 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:00:26 AM »

Krakken,
Who does it hurt if people don't know the difference? That level of ignorance is the problem with this discussion, and my main issue with those who continue to support the status quo (THS).

As long as I know the difference, it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, right?

Well if "Joe Average Bowler" doesn't know the difference, then it is quite obvious that "Joe Public Non-Bowler" doesn't know the difference either. If bowling cannot gain any recognition within its own ranks, it will never garner any outside of them. Most of you seem to ask "why does that matter?"

My boys are part of "The First Tee" program. Last year National City Bank donated $300,000 to the local chapter to help support the program and grow the sport of golf. I'm quite sure that this is not an unusual thing for golf programs, or possibly for Little League or other such sports. How much money do bowling programs get?

Without support from outside the industry there is ZERO hope to grow the sport, and no industry is going to donate their excess income to a game. Once bowling can gain widespread recognition as a sport (which will take time), perhaps organizations will see the possibilities for involvement within the sport and start donating dollars for bowling programs. Learn to bowl programs, educational programs, programs for various levels of competition, etc., all of this hinges on bowling gaining recognition as a sport.

And as long as ANYONE can even think that "Joe Average Bowler" is on par with the Professionals, none of this will EVER occur. That is what USBC is tasked with correcting. If the THS goes away and some bowlers leave with it, perhaps that is a good thing SHORT-TERM...but only if the LONG-TERM gain described above will be recognized. There is absolutely no guarantee that this would occur, but fear cannot be our guide.

tfav44 · « **Reply #171 on:** April 24, 2008, 10:26:04 AM »

boy this is getting away from the point, the point isn't house bowlers comparing themselves to the pba. that was never implied. jorge has a 233 avg. that does not suck. you guys make the house shot sound like everyone on the pair is shooting the lights out , not true. my point is that in the struggling economy making things more difficult is not the way to grow the game. ALL OF YOU SPORT AND PBA GUYS ARE WANTING CHALLENGE. CHALLENGE YOURSELF BY PUTTING DOWN YOUR MODERN BALL AND BOWL WITH A HARD RUBBER OR PLASTIC BALL, I'm serios about that. Maybee even a viz a ball. any of you guys intersted in taking on this experiment and letting us know how it goes?
--------------------
tfav44
twisted fury
eraser boost
hot rod super sport pearl
a bad night of bowling is better than a good night at work.
every frame is a opportunity to succeed!
www.virginiabeachtraveltips.com

302efi · « **Reply #172 on:** April 24, 2008, 11:12:29 AM »

quote:
Who does it hurt if people don't know the difference? That level of ignorance is the problem with this discussion, and my main issue with those who continue to support the status quo (THS).

Well then how do you suggest we seperate the houe league bowlers, amateurs & PBA pros ?

I think you would agree that the difficulty should get easier the lower you go, correct ?

Just like in other sports take Football for instance:

Highschool > Collage > NFL

How about baseball:

Highschool > Collage > MLB

As the levels increase, so does the difficulty.

--------------------

quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

Edited on 4/24/2008 11:30 AM

rvmark · « **Reply #173 on:** April 24, 2008, 11:17:29 AM »

Wow is there ever a division of thoughts in this board, one side feeling like the elite bowlers look down on them and the other side looking for more challenge.

I am just a mediocre bowler that has only been bowling for the past 5 years (no I did not sky rocket to the 200+ average in 2 years, I still have not reached it today). I bowl in 2 leagues and have to travel 45 miles to find a house that with leagues availble. I hope to bowl in a sport or pba league this summer as I feel it will help with my spare shooting, my biggest weakness some weeks not focusing enough on the easy spares.

The one thing that I do find almost laughable is that people that really love the sport or game of bowling continually griping with one another. Bowlers need to find a way to accept both the accomplished and the not so accomplished bowlers for the sport to continue to grow. Bowlers looking for more of a challenge will migrate to sport or PBA leagues, bowlers that are content with bowling on THS should continue to bowl in their normal leagues (this does not make them a bad bowler, they just may not have the time or desire to try the tougher shot).

Given the options and tolerance we can grow both the typical league and sport bowling participation.

Edited on 4/24/2008 11:19 AM

n00dlejester · « **Reply #174 on:** April 24, 2008, 11:32:51 AM »

quote:
Wow is there ever a division of thoughts in this board, one side feeling like the elite bowlers look down on them and the other side looking for more challenge.

I am just a mediocre bowler that has only been bowling for the past 5 years (no I did not sky rocket to the 200+ average in 2 years, I still have not reached it today). I bowl in 2 leagues and have to travel 45 miles to find a house that with leagues availble. I hope to bowl in a sport or pba league this summer as I feel it will help with my spare shooting, my biggest weakness some weeks not focusing enough on the easy spares.

The one thing that I do find almost laughable is that people that really love the sport or game of bowling continually griping with one another. Bowlers need to find a way to accept both the accomplished and the not so accomplished bowlers for the sport to continue to grow. Bowlers looking for more of a challenge will migrate to sport or PBA leagues, bowlers that are content with bowling on THS should continue to bowl in their normal leagues (this does not make them a bad bowler, they just may not have the time or desire to try the tougher shot).

Given the options and tolerance we can grow both the typical league and sport bowling participation.

Edited on 4/24/2008 11:19 AM

How dare you respond with logic! You're not supposed to do that, ever. Tsk tsk: how un-American of you.

EagleHunter · « **Reply #175 on:** April 24, 2008, 11:54:50 AM »

302,
Sorry but that analogy is ludicrous. In all of those examples, you can have various levels of skill on the same field, and the result...in most cases the more talented players win.

Good high school teams play bad high school teams on the same field, and the bad teams get killed. Good college teams play bad college teams on the same field, and the bad teams get killed. Good professional teams play bad professional teams on the same field, and the bad teams get killed. Barring typcially unusual circumstances, the good teams win every time.

PBA guys bowl normal leagues with us amateurs and some average in the 225-240 range, yet they are out-averaged by other bowlers in their league. Does that mean that those individuals are better than the PBA player? Probably not, but on the same field the less talented player wins.

There have been all types of comments from PBA players about how they are out-averaged in leagues when they bowl at home or during the summer. So are the PBA bowlers not that good? Are those beating them that good? Or is something wrong that on the same playing field the more talented individual gets beat over the long-haul?

EagleHunter · « **Reply #176 on:** April 24, 2008, 11:58:07 AM »

tfav,
Many have already tried your suggestion and have scored equally well in doing so. That is because they are good bowlers. The problem with the suggestion though is that while some would consider it a challenge, the MOMENT an individual has a bad night, someone like 302 will accuse them of sandbagging.

That opens a completely different problem.

n00dlejester · « **Reply #177 on:** April 24, 2008, 12:01:31 PM »

A PBA guy may come into our house and average up there with the best of them. But the best of us can't go there and keep up with the pros. Baseball and football are not games where the actual playing environment DICTATES how they are to play the game. And honestly, if a house hack knows how to exploit their home house shot, then I'm not surprised the pros get out averaged. House hacks spend all season bowling on the same shot, pros spend all season bowling on much more dynamic shots, each of varying length and oil amount. If you can strum the same 4 chords over and over, I'd hope you're good at it after a few years. The guy who can shred can do it well also, but he can do much much more.

Edited on 4/24/2008 12:03 PM

302efi · « **Reply #178 on:** April 24, 2008, 12:17:51 PM »

quote:
tfav,
Many have already tried your suggestion and have scored equally well in doing so. That is because they are good bowlers. The problem with the suggestion though is that while some would consider it a challenge, the MOMENT an individual has a bad night, someone like 302 will accuse them of sandbagging.

That opens a completely different problem.

No I wouldnt at all. If they continue to use the same gear they established their avg with, have at it ! Whatever makes the games fun for the people playing

If I had to give a PBA Pro sticks because he is using plastic or old gear, thats fine. The minute he breaks out the new age resin, then thats bagging, no ?

Everyone has bad games and shots, for instance the PBA PRO Chris Barnes went Brooklyn and won what? $150,000 ? You've seen PBA guys on TV shot 150's ?

People have good and nights.

Also, if most of the PBA guys have the attitude that THS sucks and the THS bowlers due as well, WHY WOULD THEY EVEN BOWL in a house league ?
--------------------

quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

Edited on 4/24/2008 12:18 PM

Edited on 4/24/2008 12:20 PM

trash heap · « **Reply #179 on:** April 24, 2008, 12:33:07 PM »

quote:
What I'm not sure on is how you would go about changing the attitudes of the house league bowlers. Would you wanna post a disclaimer on the score sheet everynight ? Or have it read out loud at the league meeting ?

The reason you can;t just dump the THS shot and leagues all together, is when people bowl bad they are going to quit. I think that the reason why USBC can't just do away with it (THS) all together.

I agree with NOT getting rid of THS all together. But it needs to be less. A THS Shot should be for FUN leauges (Mixed and Leagues not so serious, I am not sure why keep score if it is not serious (That's another topic)).

I used to bowl in a Men's league on Monday nights. EVERY YEAR the meeting to discuss league rule changes there was more complaining and whining about handicap. There are guys that think someone is getting an advantage. You would think someone was cheating how they stated it)....(Its Low Average vs. High Average Again, that's another topic). I am sure that this happens else where.

This is the kind of league that needs the tougher pattern.

They complain but when an solution is put on the table...they shoot it down...because they like their high scores. They say its NOT serious until they think they have been cheated!! So next year the same the same thing happens. An endless cycle.

They want the prize. They want it to be fair!

But try to implement an oil pattern where the best bowlers are recognized and the best rise to the top (regardless of average)....

NO....NO...NO!

"Don't take my 200 average or my one 700 series of the year away from me. We are not serious about it."

Well you are serious about it at the end of the year!

Edited on 4/24/2008 12:34 PM

trash heap · « **Reply #180 on:** April 24, 2008, 12:41:37 PM »

For all you that are bowling for FUN.

Shooting High Scores.

Is that the only way you can have FUN in bowling?

If you don't shoot a 280, 250, 230, or 220...then you are not having fun. That does not make sense to me.

Its NOT us wanting the Sport condition that have the EGO issue it is YOU!

Author Topic: usbc sportshot crap (Read 20873 times)

tfav44

usbc sportshot crap

n00dlejester

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Krakken

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Jorge300

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n00dlejester

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EagleHunter

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tfav44

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302efi

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rvmark

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n00dlejester

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EagleHunter

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EagleHunter

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n00dlejester

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302efi

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trash heap

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trash heap

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