Author Topic: usbc sportshot crap (Read 20874 times)

tfav44 · « **on:** April 20, 2008, 05:12:34 AM »

is anyone else sick of the sportshot crap the usbc keeps shoving at us, I have read that league bowling membership is declining, iknow that this is true in my area. I live in mich. and the decline of the auto industry is having a huge impact on our leagues.Jobs, Money, and time are tight so guys are having to cut back. the usbc is basically ignoring normal house leagues and is pushing pba experience and sport leagues. the thing is we don't have the time and disposable income to devote to having all this extra equipment and practice time. everyone on my team averages over 200, we have all decided to cut back to once a week bowling. we tired of the usbc telling us that what we are doing doesn't measure up and for the "integrity of the game we should switch to a pba exp. league.
thats my rant
--------------------
tfav44
twisted fury
eraser boost
hot rod super sport pearl
a bad night of bowling is better than a good night at work.
every frame is a opportunity to succeed!
www.virginiabeachtraveltips.com

another300 · « **Reply #196 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:22:52 PM »

Some people just don't get it. Bowling in any USBC house "back in the day" meant you were bowling on similar conditions as the PRO's were. You could somewhat monitor your achievements and progress. You could watch them on Saturday's on ABC and see that it took a 205(or whatever that week) average to make the cut. You could then say, you know I have worked hard on my game and feel I might be able to compete against them.
After averaging 195 or higher for three year you could then apply for your PBA card and bowl with the pro's.

On THS houses that is not possible. Well you can average 200 for 3 years and apply for your PBA card. But once you get out there, pay $300 entry fee and bowl your 150 average, you will be upset. You will not be willing to pay $300 for practice on those conditions every week now would you?

THS has it's place in bowling, higher scores mean more fun. It draws more people to want to bowl. A 300 on THS is still an achievement, it's just not equivalent to a 300 shot by a pro or someone bowling on Sport or PBA conditions.

Jorge and others are being modest by saying they are not good bowlers. It still takes a certain skill to achieve a 230+ average on THS conditions. What he and several others(including myself) are saying is, I want to challenge myself on the same conditions the PRO's play on. I want to see how I rate. I want to practice and bowl on these conditions because if i want to pursue bowling regionals then maybe going further, I know pretty much where I stand.

JessN16 · « **Reply #197 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:36:49 PM »

quote:
Some people just don't get it. Bowling in any USBC house "back in the day" meant you were bowling on similar conditions as the PRO's were. You could somewhat monitor your achievements and progress. You could watch them on Saturday's on ABC and see that it took a 205(or whatever that week) average to make the cut. You could then say, you know I have worked hard on my game and feel I might be able to compete against them.
After averaging 195 or higher for three year you could then apply for your PBA card and bowl with the pro's.

On THS houses that is not possible. Well you can average 200 for 3 years and apply for your PBA card. But once you get out there, pay $300 entry fee and bowl your 150 average, you will be upset. You will not be willing to pay $300 for practice on those conditions every week now would you?

THS has it's place in bowling, higher scores mean more fun. It draws more people to want to bowl. A 300 on THS is still an achievement, it's just not equivalent to a 300 shot by a pro or someone bowling on Sport or PBA conditions.

Jorge and others are being modest by saying they are not good bowlers. It still takes a certain skill to achieve a 230+ average on THS conditions. What he and several others(including myself) are saying is, I want to challenge myself on the same conditions the PRO's play on. I want to see how I rate. I want to practice and bowl on these conditions because if i want to pursue bowling regionals then maybe going further, I know pretty much where I stand.

That's fine, and if demand is sufficient for sport/PBAX leagues in your area, they should be offered.

However, there's that word again, "IF." Because bowling depends on private enterprise (i.e., the bowling center) to function, consumer demand is what is going to drive the decision to offer PBAX or not.

There is a difference between petitioning a bowling center to add PBAX (commendable) and petitioning the USBC to buck the preferences of 90%+ of the bowling base and force sport conditions on all league bowlers (not commendable), which is what EagleHunter wants to see happen.

I'll tell you how we got PBAX where I lived in Tennessee: We asked for it. A bunch of bowlers went to the center managers and told them if they'd lay down PBAX shots, we'd give them a league. We ended up with 17 3-man teams at the start of the league and finished with 14 teams, as three of them dropped out when they couldn't score.

Where I live now, I would love to have PBAX. Unfortunately, my current job requires me to work nights three times a week and leaves me just two nights available for bowling, and PBAX isn't offered on either night. So I'm on THS whether I want to or not.

Jess

WSUstroker · « **Reply #198 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:40:17 PM »

I only got about halfway through this thread, but my general observations...

http://www.absolutebowling.com/forums/uploaded/24_1209069572.jpg
--------------------
Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com

TDC57 · « **Reply #199 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:45:11 PM »

I will repeat, I have been bowling in men's leagues for 36 years and have been taking care of our local lanes for 26. I believe I've learned a few things about the industry during that time. First, if you think easy lanes are the answer, you are wrong. If you think tough sport shots are the answer, YOU ARE A MORON!!!! The industry is in a fragile state, and if the answer was simple the brain trusts at the USBC would have found it by now. Jorge, climb into the real world and quit being an elitist (you guys are ruining this sport). This game was created for recreation. It evolved into many different layers. The top bowlers of yesteryear were not the holier than now guys who having been piping off on this subject over the last few days. Many of today's top bowlers have now become such snobs that if anyone shoots a high score and are not the quality bowler they are, it shouldn't be taken seriously. Get over yourselves! This game is still dominated in numbers by the average joe bowler. They pay your way at every turn. You take their money in leagues, you take their money at tournaments and yet you want them to bow down and kiss your feet because you have put more into your game than them and they damn well better not shoot a 300 game or honor count of any kind unless it's on a difficult shot.

Any bowler can shoot 300. Lanes don't play into that at all. 150 avg. bowlers have been doing it forever. These guys do not shoot 800s. These guys gladly let you take their money at every turn, but if they luck out and have a 300, boy you get hosed off about it. Who are you guys and where did you snobs come from? Why do you even bowl in these leagues with the soft shots anyway. Why submit yourself to such agony? Your better than that, find the other elitists and form your own leagues where you can beat your heads against the wall every night but can go home satisfied you did it admirably. Quit bowling in the tournaments those schmucks with those inflated averages do. Those inflated averages they bring with them giving you every edge possible has to diminish your enjoyment when you get your prize money check. Tell the USBC to just ban these clowns and have the BPAA provide membership to them if they want a sanctioning body. Tell the USBC we don't need them to survive. We elitists will bring enough ego and savvy to the organization that our hot air alone will keep the ship afloat. That is how to grow the sport!!

txbowler · « **Reply #200 on:** April 24, 2008, 03:49:04 PM »

There should be both sport leagues for those who "WANT" the challenge. In the area Jorge bowls, unfortunately for him, there doesn't seem be enough bowlers who "WANT" the challenge.

So I can understand his frustration. He appears to be thinking that by mandating sport conditions for certain types of league, then he'll have the opportunity to bowl on that condition.

I don't see that happening.

As for the PBA. It has been my opinion for several years that they need to raise the qualification average to 210 or 215. 200 is just not the right standard anymore. But they will not do that. Why? They want all the $$$ from dues that they can get. By raising their standard for memebership, they would turn away $$$.

The UBSC is going to do what is best for the majority of its membership. And that 2/3's majority averages below 190 even on today's easy THS.

nospareball · « **Reply #201 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:02:45 PM »

quote:
I have seen guys average 210-220 and bowl once a week and not throw a ball during the summer. I take these guys with me to numerous tournaments at many different houses. I take them to our State tournament which has went to a tougher sport type shot for D and S and a less difficult shot for the team event. These same once a week bowlers tear it up on both shots. Could someone please explain how they do this or is it possible some guys are just very good bowlers and a lack of practicing does not affect them?

zerorev, I could not agree with you more. League shots should not be super easy, they should reward you if you throw the ball correctly and penalize if you don't. From my experience, that condition will still have guys averaging very high.

Edited on 4/23/2008 11:40 PM

This is pretty much spot on with my observations over the years. You can generally pick out the guys that have the skills to be a good bowler, whether it be on a THS or a Tourney shot. Those guys may not average 220 or 230 but you can tell that they have it even if they don't practice or take the game as seriously as some of the other guys.

Where the disconnect occurs (on a THS at least) is when you have the guys who practice all of the time, work on their game, average higher than these casual skilled bowlers but still get beat by them when it counts. Then you have these more serious bowlers complaining that the conditions are too easy, or the balls too advanced, and feel that they are entitled to win against these guys because they work harder and take the game more seriously. What you end up with is elitist bowlers who think that they are entitled to win.

Lets face it, bowling has always been a game of skill and LUCK! How many times have you gone through the nose, or crossed over, or missed the pocket all together and ended up with a strike or an easy leave? Or if you bury the pocket and leave an 8 pin when the game is on the line? But we only seem to remember when these sorts of shots happen against us. You can't really blame the other guy, or the ball or the oil pattern for stuff like that, it's all in the game, crap happens.

--------------------
-Clint

302efi · « **Reply #202 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:14:57 PM »

quote:
I only got about halfway through this thread, but my general observations...

http://www.absolutebowling.com/forums/uploaded/24_1209069572.jpg
--------------------
Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com

I do have alot of little fishes in this thread, don't I ?

Why not fish where the fishing is GOOD !

Good observations

!
--------------------

quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

Edited on 4/24/2008 4:44 PM

another300 · « **Reply #203 on:** April 24, 2008, 04:48:31 PM »

quote:
I will repeat, I have been bowling in men's leagues for 36 years and have been taking care of our local lanes for 26. I believe I've learned a few things about the industry during that time. First, if you think easy lanes are the answer, you are wrong. If you think tough sport shots are the answer, YOU ARE A MORON!!!! The industry is in a fragile state, and if the answer was simple the brain trusts at the USBC would have found it by now. Jorge, climb into the real world and quit being an elitist (you guys are ruining this sport). This game was created for recreation. It evolved into many different layers. The top bowlers of yesteryear were not the holier than now guys who having been piping off on this subject over the last few days. Many of today's top bowlers have now become such snobs that if anyone shoots a high score and are not the quality bowler they are, it shouldn't be taken seriously. Get over yourselves! This game is still dominated in numbers by the average joe bowler. They pay your way at every turn. You take their money in leagues, you take their money at tournaments and yet you want them to bow down and kiss your feet because you have put more into your game than them and they damn well better not shoot a 300 game or honor count of any kind unless it's on a difficult shot.

Any bowler can shoot 300. Lanes don't play into that at all. 150 avg. bowlers have been doing it forever. These guys do not shoot 800s. These guys gladly let you take their money at every turn, but if they luck out and have a 300, boy you get hosed off about it. Who are you guys and where did you snobs come from? Why do you even bowl in these leagues with the soft shots anyway. Why submit yourself to such agony? Your better than that, find the other elitists and form your own leagues where you can beat your heads against the wall every night but can go home satisfied you did it admirably. Quit bowling in the tournaments those schmucks with those inflated averages do. Those inflated averages they bring with them giving you every edge possible has to diminish your enjoyment when you get your prize money check. Tell the USBC to just ban these clowns and have the BPAA provide membership to them if they want a sanctioning body. Tell the USBC we don't need them to survive. We elitists will bring enough ego and savvy to the organization that our hot air alone will keep the ship afloat. That is how to grow the sport!!

36 years and you still dont get it Tony C? Sounds like you are bitter because you yourself having bowled for 36 years but have not shot a 300 or 800 series.

TDC57 · « **Reply #204 on:** April 24, 2008, 07:49:11 PM »

mvas800,

What kind of knuckle dragger are you? You read my post and that's your take? I'm bitter because I have no 300 or 800? Does that define a person's bowling ability. Listen moron, how you came to that conclusion is a mystery to any normal thinking person. 36 years of bowling and I don't get what? Don't just make a statement and think we can read your mind. I bowl because I enjoy the game. I don't look down on anybody and believe me I been in situations when I could have. Elitists seem to be rampant on this site and they are plain and simple why the game of bowling is in decline. It's not high scoring lane conditions, it loud mouth pontificators beating their chests incessantly over guys that should not concern them, who are driving people away from the game. The elitists of the world are the ones who live in the minority. They have fewer friends who are real friends. I'll stick to my average joe bowler friends who I can count on for anything. Those are the guys that built this game, not the others. I have shot 300 and 800 in non-sanctioned bowling. IT DIDN'T MAKE ME FEEL ANY DIFFERENT!!!!

tenpin477 · « **Reply #205 on:** April 24, 2008, 08:03:54 PM »

To put into perspective what a THS can do for you, I had a kid I bowl with on Saturday mornings this year shoot a 268 his first game, and then continue on to shoot a 550 set.

Your right, sport bowling is not for everybody, its for the people who take bowling seriously, they don't treat it as a "game" or as a night out, they treat it as a sport, in the same way baseball players treat baseball, and hockey players treat hockey.

While you certaintly cannot completely do away with THS leagues, its simply suicide to the house owner, I do feel that sport bowling should be more available to the people who want it.

I know im nothing special when it comes to bowling, although with some good practice I think I could be, but I very rarely get the opportunity to bowl on some tough shots. There are no fall PBAX or Sport leagues in my area. There are a few over the summer in houses that are not too far away, but in the fall there are none, and very few tournaments utilize sport patterns.

You cannot do away with the THS, but to say that Sport Bowling is stupid is just as ignorant.

JessN16 · « **Reply #206 on:** April 24, 2008, 08:41:58 PM »

quote:
To put into perspective what a THS can do for you, I had a kid I bowl with on Saturday mornings this year shoot a 268 his first game, and then continue on to shoot a 550 set.

Your right, sport bowling is not for everybody, its for the people who take bowling seriously, they don't treat it as a "game" or as a night out, they treat it as a sport, in the same way baseball players treat baseball, and hockey players treat hockey.

While you certaintly cannot completely do away with THS leagues, its simply suicide to the house owner, I do feel that sport bowling should be more available to the people who want it.

I know im nothing special when it comes to bowling, although with some good practice I think I could be, but I very rarely get the opportunity to bowl on some tough shots. There are no fall PBAX or Sport leagues in my area. There are a few over the summer in houses that are not too far away, but in the fall there are none, and very few tournaments utilize sport patterns.

You cannot do away with the THS, but to say that Sport Bowling is stupid is just as ignorant.

Here's what I talk about when I talk about sport bowling "attitudes":

quote:

"Your right, sport bowling is not for everybody, its for the people who take bowling seriously"

I bowl on one THS league a week and you can bet your a** I take it seriously. Competition is what you make of it, and no one knows what's going on in my head while I'm bowling and for that reason, no one has a right to tell me I take it seriously or don't take it seriously based on what oil pattern is down.

For you to try to ascribe your own biases to my game, having never met me or anyone I bowl with, is audacious to the point of irresponsible. Every time someone makes a dumb, elitist statement like this, it just becomes that much easier for the bowlers not fortunate enough to be as talented as you adopt a take-a-hike stance in regards to your opinions.

Sport follows intent. It does not follow conditions.

Jess

EagleHunter · « **Reply #207 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:28:15 PM »

To those of you morons who continue to think that YOU built the game into what it is...this is for you:

Andy Varipapa, Dick Weber, Joe Norris, Don Carter, Earl Anthony, Count Gengler, Bill Lillard, Tony Lindeman, Ray Bluth, Mark Roth, Pete Weber, Walter Ray Williams Jr., Mike Aulby, Pat Patterson, Tom Hennessey

Why don't you tell me again how YOU built the sport.

302efi · « **Reply #208 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:30:53 PM »

quote:
To those of you morons who continue to think that YOU built the game into what it is...this is for you:

Andy Varipapa, Dick Weber, Joe Norris, Don Carter, Earl Anthony, Count Gengler, Bill Lillard, Tony Lindeman, Ray Bluth, Mark Roth, Pete Weber, Walter Ray Williams Jr., Mike Aulby, Pat Patterson, Tom Hennessey

Why don't you tell me again how YOU built the sport.

So your saying that these pros made the game into the THS walls that it is ?!

Wow !

Since by your post league bowlers didnt do it, your saying the pros did !

Nice post

--------------------

quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke

EagleHunter · « **Reply #209 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:37:04 PM »

Thank you Bob Hanson!

Someone else who sees what some of us already know. That the 90% of bowlers who most of you claim MUST HAVE the THS do not benefit from it.

I witnessed my mixed league bowl on a 7th shift pattern (literally ZERO oil). The vast majority of league bowlers a) didn't notice that the conditions were different, b) were still within 20-30 pins of their average. And while I was lofting the cap and crossing 35, my league bowlers questioned if what I was doing was legal.

The vast majority of USBC members do NOT purchase many high-tech balls, do not put much if any REVs on it, do not HOOK it much if at all. Which leaves us with those of you who actually benefit from the THS, yet would be negatively effected by tougher conditions.

Me...if my average were to fall because of tougher conditions, good. It shows me what improvements I need to make and it gives a roadmap of how to get better.

EagleHunter · « **Reply #210 on:** April 24, 2008, 09:45:00 PM »

302,
Maybe you didn't notice that I said those men built the SPORT. Sadly the uSBC and BPAA created the mess we have today, no single bowler or group of bowlers would dare claim responsibility for that...yet many of you try to.

If you want to claim responsibility for building the game, good for you. I will take the SPORT every time!

Author Topic: usbc sportshot crap (Read 20874 times)

tfav44

usbc sportshot crap

another300

Re: usbc sportshot crap

JessN16

Re: usbc sportshot crap

WSUstroker

Re: usbc sportshot crap

TDC57

Re: usbc sportshot crap

txbowler

Re: usbc sportshot crap

nospareball

Re: usbc sportshot crap

302efi

Re: usbc sportshot crap

another300

Re: usbc sportshot crap

TDC57

Re: usbc sportshot crap

tenpin477

Re: usbc sportshot crap

JessN16

Re: usbc sportshot crap

EagleHunter

Re: usbc sportshot crap

302efi

Re: usbc sportshot crap

EagleHunter

Re: usbc sportshot crap

EagleHunter

Re: usbc sportshot crap