Author Topic: usbc sportshot crap (Read 20887 times)

tfav44 · « **on:** April 20, 2008, 05:12:34 AM »

is anyone else sick of the sportshot crap the usbc keeps shoving at us, I have read that league bowling membership is declining, iknow that this is true in my area. I live in mich. and the decline of the auto industry is having a huge impact on our leagues.Jobs, Money, and time are tight so guys are having to cut back. the usbc is basically ignoring normal house leagues and is pushing pba experience and sport leagues. the thing is we don't have the time and disposable income to devote to having all this extra equipment and practice time. everyone on my team averages over 200, we have all decided to cut back to once a week bowling. we tired of the usbc telling us that what we are doing doesn't measure up and for the "integrity of the game we should switch to a pba exp. league.
thats my rant
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tfav44
twisted fury
eraser boost
hot rod super sport pearl
a bad night of bowling is better than a good night at work.
every frame is a opportunity to succeed!
www.virginiabeachtraveltips.com

badnuzjr · « **Reply #46 on:** April 21, 2008, 02:24:12 PM »

I absolutely think that youth bowlers should be in awe of the pros....not Joe house bowler...and that is the problem. When the scores on the machine are perceived as being on equal playing fields then there is an issue. Why would the youth bowlers want to strive to be the guys they see on the lanes in their local bowling alleys? They should be trying to be more like the Pros. Then they have something to work towards.

Bowling should be viewed as difficult at it's top level. Bowling is one of a few sports where different people compete against the game at different difficulties. Golfers go out and golf the same course. Baseball players all play baseball on the same fields. Same distance between bases, same average distance to fence. All football players play on a field that is 300 feet goaline to goaline regardless if it is Pro, College, or High School. Bowlings in ability to capture that same idea has left it behind.

Nearly 10 million members of the USBC in 1982....10,000,000...down to about 2,700,000 today. How many 300's in 1982...about 6,000.....today....over 50,000....so we have fewer league bowlers and more perfect games. Bowling must create a pattern of growth for a young bowler. Which means they should not go out and be able to throw 300's like it's nothing. They need to get better and compete at higher levels as they get older to maintain that will to grow. The problem is bowling has a ceiling. Once you've achieved 300 where do you go. The USBC has to address that question and I think they are.
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Bad Nuz is Good News

CHawk15 · « **Reply #47 on:** April 21, 2008, 02:36:22 PM »

There is plenty of room for both right now, the only reason PBA leagues aren't more popular is because it takes alot of work to certify them from a propreitor's and inspector's standpoint. If it was easier to implement, there would be alot more of them.

The USBC is also attempting to change the "anyone can do it and do it well" perception by pushing the leagues w/ tougher conditions. What it really comes down to is this, if you want to learn the game and become a more versatile player, then join a sport shot league, PBA Experience league or go bowl a PBA regional to learn how to bowl on shots other than a THS. If you're satisfied with your current game and want to participate in a "carry contest" rather than being rewarded for making a good shot and punished for making a bad or OK shot, then bowl your regular THS league. Sounds like tfav44 is in the second category, and that's perfectly fine. Personally, I'm more in the first category. Yes, they are trying to encourage the league bowlers to bowl on the tougher conditions

I'm not saying that it doesn't take any skill at all to bowl on a THS, because you have to be capable of repeating shots, just not to the precision that you do on a sport shot or PBA shot. For example, I bowl in one center where the high speed/rev players dominate because they can create more area than the rest of us. The lead average guy in the house (18yr old, 235 avg) goes to nationals and shoots in the 300s for series. What does that tell you ?? I agree the true test is bowling a regional, because I bowled a summer PBA league last summer that was a complete joke, they didn't have the lane machine to do it properly.

JessN16 · « **Reply #48 on:** April 21, 2008, 02:39:38 PM »

quote:
I absolutely think that youth bowlers should be in awe of the pros....not Joe house bowler...and that is the problem. When the scores on the machine are perceived as being on equal playing fields then there is an issue. Why would the youth bowlers want to strive to be the guys they see on the lanes in their local bowling alleys? They should be trying to be more like the Pros. Then they have something to work towards.

The fault there is in bowling's dropping the ball in education, not in lane conditions or ball tech. How many handouts have you ever received in league talking about the oil pattern? Every golf course in America puts their layout on the scorecard but we can't even have one education program about what THS is or isn't.

quote:

Bowling should be viewed as difficult at it's top level. Bowling is one of a few sports where different people compete against the game at different difficulties. Golfers go out and golf the same course. Baseball players all play baseball on the same fields. Same distance between bases, same average distance to fence. All football players play on a field that is 300 feet goaline to goaline regardless if it is Pro, College, or High School. Bowlings in ability to capture that same idea has left it behind.

Several things going on ehre:

* Not sure bowling has ever been viewed that way.
* Golfers have handicap/slope and multiple teeing locations. Everyone does not play the same course nor do their scores indicate what they truly did. This doesn't even get into whether you play a difficult course or an easy course.
* If you've got amateur adult baseball in your area, you are one of very few. In 95%+ of the country, it's slow-pitch softball. Even in amateur baseball, the pitching is substantially less quality, and besides, you're talking about an offense/defense sport that is barely comparable to bowling. Same for football.

quote:

Nearly 10 million members of the USBC in 1982....10,000,000...down to about 2,700,000 today. How many 300's in 1982...about 6,000.....today....over 50,000....so we have fewer league bowlers and more perfect games. Bowling must create a pattern of growth for a young bowler. Which means they should not go out and be able to throw 300's like it's nothing. They need to get better and compete at higher levels as they get older to maintain that will to grow. The problem is bowling has a ceiling. Once you've achieved 300 where do you go. The USBC has to address that question and I think they are.
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Bad Nuz is Good News

The USBC is not addressing this question, because the USBC isn't capable of addressing the factors that have driven millions of bowlers out of its sport: Economy and the change of American society.

I've told this story here dozens of times: I was a recruiter for years and ran into fewer than five people who quit because of a high scoring pace. In fact, I ran into more who quit because scores were allegedly too low. But I saw a 160-man league get wiped out in one day because the local steel plant dropped its third shift.

Take every person you know to have personally quit the sport because of scoring pace, multiply it by a few hundred thousand and you'll have the people who quit it for reasons that have nothing to do with what happened inside the bowling center. Economic factors lead that list, followed by video games and Americans' decreasing desire to actually get out and do crap.

And you might want to check the numbers for those other sports (baseball, golf): They're in decline as well. Rounds played in golf leveled off after 2000 and are in decline, and recreational softball leagues are also shrinking in many areas. No one is doing well, and those other sports don't have scoring issues to deal with.

Jess

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #49 on:** April 21, 2008, 02:52:09 PM »

quote:
quote:
The bottom line is that perception is everything. If people perceive that any house hack can go out and bowl better scores than a pro, then that is what they are going to think. How many league bowlers truly understand the difference between what the pros do and what they are doing. I don't think it is a very high percentage

Why does it matter what people think or preceive ?

I don't see where a league bowler has to understand the shot is different then the PBA.

WHY DOES PERCEPTION OF PBA MEAN ANYTHING IN LEAGUE BOWLING ?!?!?!

League bowling is one thing....PBA bowling is a totally different thing. Why do they have to inter-cross ?
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

The problem, as I see it, with perception is this:

Would people go watch pro baseball if little-league kids could throw 100 mph fast-balls and smack HRs out of stadiums the same size the pro's play on?

That's what bowling is up against. Why should people pay to watch the Pro's throw lower scores than they can bowl themselves in league? Respect for the professionals of this sport is lost because anyone can visit any center on any league night and see telephone numbers put up for free.

Add to that, why do people watch professional sports? The HR over the Green Wall, the 60 yard hail-mary, the half-court buzzer-beater, the chip in from the bunker. What does bowling have? The 300 game that 60,000 people in regular league did themselves last year? Kind of trivializes the efforts of a pro bowler, doesn't it?

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9~

It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!

302efi · « **Reply #50 on:** April 21, 2008, 02:58:40 PM »

quote:
Why should people pay to watch the Pro's throw lower scores than they can bowl themselves in league? Respect for the professionals of this sport is lost because anyone can visit any center on any league night and see telephone numbers put up for free.

Why should a regular league bowler care anything about a PBA pro ?

League bowling is not as closely paired with PBA as it was in the 70-80's

Why does a league bowler have to have respect for a PBA bowler or their scores ?

League bowling is one thing, PBA bowling is something else. Why cross them up? Just because its the same sport or game, does not mean it has to be at the same level.
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

302efi · « **Reply #51 on:** April 21, 2008, 03:02:00 PM »

quote:
Sorry.. easy lane conditions drive membership down. Any bowler wants to be rewarded for good shotmaking. When this is not the case, then why bother?

Personally, I get BORED with the THS wall shot. Put it outside 10 somewhere downlane and watch it scream back. I get sick of watching the "area masters" shoot 700 with open frames... and to top it off they think they are that good. Put a spray baby on a flatter pattern and watch them shoot 450.

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Ok....heres the answer to your problem:

Just quit bowling on a THS.

How hard is that ?...If you can't beat'em, then join'em

If your bored with the game and level you play, then go somewhere more difficult, problem solved

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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

trash heap · « **Reply #52 on:** April 21, 2008, 03:03:41 PM »

Well to add into this. This has happened the past 4 years in my league. The main issue brought up is HANDICAP! What the base should be and what the % of the base should be!

This is EVERY YEAR! Right now it is 100% of 220. Some Guys want to have the base lowered some want it higher! Some want the percent back to 80%! Some guys will argue and have no clue how handicap works in bowling. It is amazing to watch this every year. People think that some teams have the advantage while others think they are getting ripped off.

In my opinion the main reason for this argument: THS!!!!!

There is a HUGE gap in averages between high average bowlers vs. low average bowlers.

1. A High average (225) bowler get upset when a low average (170) bowler bowls his best of the year.

High Average Bowler 3 game set: 750 scratch
Low Average Bowler 3 game set: 690 scratch (Beats the guy with handicap)

Statement: "How can I compete against that!"

2. Low Average (170) bowler gets upset when high average bowler (225) beats him because the Handicap base is lower than his average (220) or the % of the base is NOT 100%.

Statement: "We both made our average, and I still lose instead of it being a tie!"

When guys don't get it their way...they quit!!

I also believe that the THS has lead bowlers to worry about their average more than their team winning or losing. I hear more guys say, "Well we lost but I bowled above my average!" or "At least I was over 600 tonight!" or "I need to bowl a 230 on the last game to keep my average!" or "I need to strike out to keep my average!"

On another note....

I am not sure how bowlers are in a league, only for it be fun and not be competitive at all. If your team is in 2nd place (one game behind 1st place team) and its the last night of league. Do you go into bowl stating: "I'm just going to have FUN tonight!" I guarantee that most bowlers are going to try to bowl their best.

302efi · « **Reply #53 on:** April 21, 2008, 03:07:43 PM »

quote:
Already did that ... the problem is in my area they are very few sport compliant leagues

Well then if you don't enjoy bowling on what you have avalible, then I guess your done, right ?

Seriously, if your bored, why continue it?

I mean I checked your profile and you got a ton of balls in there...If your that bored with THS and it offers no challange, why buy the newest gear ?

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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #54 on:** April 21, 2008, 03:16:19 PM »

quote:
quote:
Why should people pay to watch the Pro's throw lower scores than they can bowl themselves in league? Respect for the professionals of this sport is lost because anyone can visit any center on any league night and see telephone numbers put up for free.

Why should a regular league bowler care anything about a PBA pro ?

League bowling is not as closely paired with PBA as it was in the 70-80's

Why does a league bowler have to have respect for a PBA bowler or their scores ?

League bowling is one thing, PBA bowling is something else. Why cross them up? Just because its the same sport or game, does not mean it has to be at the same level.
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

I understand that the league bowler doesn't care about the PBA bowler, and vice versa. So what does bowling, as a whole, want? Does it want to be a SPORT, where athletic talent is recognized, or does it want to be like skee-ball where you get your ticket for every strike thrown and cash them in at the counter for a stuffed animal, keychain, or free pitcher of beer?

If bowling is going to exist in any form greater than a recreational arcade game, then the league bowler is, IMO, going to have to lose the easy scoring condition so the Professional and/or Olympic bolwers stand out as being athletes. Right now, unless you're really in the know, they don't. As a result the general public does not recognize bowling as a SPORT. Therefore, the professional tour (from what I read/hear) has a tough row to hoe when it comes to selling enough tickets and garnering much needed sponsorship dollars to stay afloat.

If skee-ball is what everyone wants, then to heck with it all. Let's just dissolve the USBC and the PBA, and have ticket-dispensers installed beside the scoring monitors so everybody can get their awards.

Besides, if the league bowler is truly just out for fun and drinks, what difference does the scoring environment really make? If you're just there for fun and don't want to think about the lane condition just grab a plastic Viz-a-ball, fire at the headpin, and do your little dance when luck gives you a strike. Then go buy another round for your buddies.

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9~

It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!

302efi · « **Reply #55 on:** April 21, 2008, 03:29:05 PM »

quote:
Therefore, the professional tour (from what I read/hear) has a tough row to hoe when it comes to selling enough tickets and garnering much needed sponsorship dollars to stay afloat.

So your saying that PBA bowlers are dependant on league bowlers ?

As I said before, people pay $20+ a week (or league) to bowl. If they bowl bad, then they don't want to bowl. People not bowling is what matters, not the PBA selling tickets.

I could care less if the PBA goes under. What has it done for me ? Notta.

60+ exempt bowler getting respect or recognition or 2.7 million bowlers quitting the game ? Take your pick.

Remember, leagues is bowling centers steady income, cut that and watch more then a few fold. Try to tell Brunswick to change the THS shots in all of their corprate centers. Or tell AMF that...The USBC matters very little and has little weight.

Who really wants bowling to called a sport ? Sh!t I could care less..lol

Can't people just enjoy the game and bowl ? Go out and buy a new ball and shoes, jump on a league and fun.
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

Edited on 4/21/2008 3:32 PM

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #56 on:** April 21, 2008, 03:56:19 PM »

quote:
quote:
Therefore, the professional tour (from what I read/hear) has a tough row to hoe when it comes to selling enough tickets and garnering much needed sponsorship dollars to stay afloat.

So your saying that PBA bowlers are dependant on league bowlers ?

As I said before, people pay $20+ a week (or league) to bowl. If they bowl bad, then they don't want to bowl. People not bowling is what matters, not the PBA selling tickets.

I could care less if the PBA goes under. What has it done for me ? Notta.

60+ exempt bowler getting respect or recognition or 2.7 million bowlers quitting the game ? Take your pick.

Remember, leagues is bowling centers steady income, cut that and watch more then a few fold. Try to tell Brunswick to change the THS shots in all of their corprate centers. Or tell AMF that...The USBC matters very little and has little weight.

Who really wants bowling to called a sport ? Sh!t I could care less..lol

Can't people just enjoy the game and bowl ? Go out and buy a new ball and shoes, jump on a league and fun.
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

Edited on 4/21/2008 3:32 PM

OK, I guess that settles it. I even have a new slogan for the USBC to use!

"2.7 million drunken bowlers can't be wrong!"

LOL

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9~

It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!

302efi · « **Reply #57 on:** April 21, 2008, 04:13:08 PM »

To be honest, why is there even a USBC ?

What does it actually do for anybody or help improve the GAME of bowling ?

Why can't people enjoy bowling for what it is ?

I'm gonna be honest here and I'm sure some the olders bowlers will put me on ignore or bash me, who cares. The bowlers b!tches about the THS's is mostly the older bowlers whos styles can't take advantage the THS. Face it, the game of bowling has changed, power and revs create pin carry and area. Throwing it down 5 with no revs won't carry that well anymore. We no longer have to use 16lb balls. Just because you can't carry as well as someone else, DOES NOT make room for a complaint.
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

Fluff E Bunnie · « **Reply #58 on:** April 21, 2008, 04:45:23 PM »

I think the USBC is right for pushing the sport program and the PBA name should have been in on it earlier because that is what is helping it in terms of popularity. It's not like these leagues are killing off house shot leagues so I don't know what the complaint is.
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"When in doubt, pull out." - ESPN's Rob Stone

Leftyhi-trak · « **Reply #59 on:** April 21, 2008, 05:08:24 PM »

302 is right!!

Why have a governing body? Why have rules? Why have standards just bowl? Foul lines don't matter, Ball weight heck bigger is better. Sorry some level of even ground is needed and regulated. Otherwise factors which are in it to line their pockets will not take a high road. I don't disagree with a certain level of snobbery that exists. Some better bowlers also see it from guys who do exploit "THS" yet have no clue to facets of the game. (house/league kings) Thats where some of these "old" guys come off. That is their right. But answer this, looking at bowling as a sport do you not see a huge gap between the ordinary league and a professional or elite level. Why shouldn't there be something in place for someone who wants more than the "average" guy? The reason the USBC is working more with the PBA is to draw more interest in both. If you have identifable faces of merit you may draw interest. The decline of bowling is more to due with society changes and the lack of foresight 20-30 years ago to move with it.

Why can't we have both and why shouldn't USBC push "experience" leagues? It should be promoted to try at every house that has a champions/elite or scratch league. I don't agree with paying extra for it though. Sorry its a push button operation for most proprietors on a lane machine. Tape - Blah, Blah , Blah. You will know the difference make the proprietor step up to the plate on learning the game and his equipment so its done correctly. USBC needs to back off on the "extra requirements" maybe then you would see less heartburn to try one of those leagues.

tfav44 · « **Reply #60 on:** April 21, 2008, 05:27:01 PM »

some things i've noticed in the replys
1-ask yourselves wht did tha old abc switch from the long flat oil pattern of the 70's and early 80's to the crowned patterns used today.
2- the softball comment is awesome. comparing the pba to house leagues is like comparing softball to MLB. oh and by the way when softball bats got better and people started hitting more homers, the leagues said homers were outs. , guess what guys quit playing.
3-the usbc coach that was talking about practice, practice, practice, missed my point, many of us have jobs , family's, homes, ect. we don't have time to make bowling a second job.
--------------------
tfav44
twisted fury
eraser boost
hot rod super sport pearl
a bad night of bowling is better than a good night at work.
every frame is a opportunity to succeed!
www.virginiabeachtraveltips.com

Author Topic: usbc sportshot crap (Read 20887 times)

tfav44

usbc sportshot crap

badnuzjr

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CHawk15

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JessN16

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9andaWiggle

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302efi

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302efi

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trash heap

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302efi

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9andaWiggle

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302efi

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9andaWiggle

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302efi

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Fluff E Bunnie

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Leftyhi-trak

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tfav44

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