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Author Topic: USBC- Why are people upset?  (Read 2458 times)

Juggernaut

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USBC- Why are people upset?
« on: May 01, 2005, 02:58:43 AM »
So the USBC is PROPOSING new regulations governing ball construction and drilling specifications.  SO WHAT!

 Why are so many of you already whining about things that you know so little about really?

 Will the new regs REALLY make that much difference? I'll bet you really don't know.

 What makes you think that the ball makers can't overcome some silly little hurdles? They have already been able to completely circumvent the laws of physics imposed on them by the "static weight" rules.

 Are we supposed to lower the rim in basketball to accomodate shorter players?
 Are we supposed to change the rules in football to help the disadvantaged?

 The sports I have mentioned are just a couple, but without fail, all sports have a set of rules intending to standardize the game play as much as possible. That is what the USBC is attempting to do. Return the game to a state where it can be played and won by the players with the most physical talent and abilities.

 I have 23 bowling balls. Most of them are drilled of center and have weightholes in them. Like most of you, my stuff will become obsolete with the passing of the new regulations, so don't tell me I don't get it, I do.

 If all sports could be altered with using better equipment, where would be the incentive for football, basketball, or other sports players to work harder, get stronger, and practice to be the best they can be?

 Let them make their rules. Maybe then some of you will really learn how to bowl instead of just buying a new ball that makes up for your lack of talent.

 And maybe you will spend the time to practice and actually learn how to roll the ball in different situations to be effective.

 A lot of you will be P.O.'d at this post. But it is the truth. I'm not that old, and I started right before bowling began to change so much. I have been here to see it change from a game of skill, strength, and accuracy to a game of who can afford the most equipment. A sport is supposed to be won by the superior player. A game is just played for fun.

 DO YOU WANT BOWLING TO BE CONSIDERED A SPORT, OR JUST A GAME?
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charlest

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2005, 11:01:52 AM »
The reason people are upset, in general, in my opinion, is that 99% of all they have done is just power posturing, with no true real positive attack on restoring Bowling's "supposed" integrity, which is what I assumed their aim was to achieve. That is, its sole purpose is show both bowlers and bowling supply manufacturers who is "The Boss".
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Re-Evolution

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2005, 12:36:55 PM »
The reason I am upset is because they are proposing the CG rule based on grip center and that is just not right because grip center is the same for everyone but PAPs are not and that is what is important when it comes to a drill pattern. This is just stupid because drilling that have the pin more than 1 inch off of the bridge line have to have the CG swung toward GC.
Bowler A has a PAP of over 5.5 and up 1/2 and wants a 3" pin position this requires him to have the pin 2.5" from BL now he has to swing the CG way left.
Bowler B has a PAP of over 3 and up 1/2 and wants a 5.5" pin position this requires him to place the Pin 2.5" from BL now he has to have the CG swung way right.
How does this add integrity to the game when certain bowlers have to do certain things with the CG/MB to keep the ball legal with certain pin positions.
You track/PAP location has nothing to do with you skill level.
Leave drill restrictions out and make the conditions tougher. All bowlers that seek to increase their talent want this already.

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why not the THS wall?
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Overhand

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2005, 01:16:13 PM »
Well said, 'Slinger...

Ball specs, drilling and specification all have to be regulated.  I imagine this is just the first series of changes by USBC to get us to where skill makes the biggest difference in performance.




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TDC57

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2005, 01:57:10 PM »
Slinger,

You're a bowling snob. Quit picking on the guys that you feel are inferior in talent. That's just a pile of bull. The guys that the USBC are trying to regulate aren't the wannabes it's the guys that are good that can take a ball with a wild drilling that shoot outrageous scores and average 230 - 250. Nobody is that good. Anybody that is shooting that high are taking advantage of very soft lanes with balls that are drilled exotically. Leave your crap about the guys that aren't as highly skilled out of this debate, they aren't the guys that are averaging 230 or better. You guys that talk this baloney don't get it, make the game a lot tougher and the membership numbers will not increase they will decrease dramatically. The majority league of bowlers do it for enjoyment and to hang out with their friends. They bowl only a couple of tournaments for the same reason.

Just give the high and mighty talk a rest. If you freeze out the average league bowler, there won't be enough bowling centers able to stay afloat for the snobs like you. I grew up in the lacquer era and take my word for it, when the lanes  wore during the season they groove that developed allowed bowlers of all types become better than they were. Things change but they always remain the same, if your able to understand what I'm telling you.
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brenttsr

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2005, 03:30:18 PM »
but is that fair with alll the 900's and record team and doubles scores and so on. then should be an asterisk next to those scores. it is like now with baseball , they let the homerun record be beat with steroids and bonds will beat aaron because of steroids and now you say no more, their should be an asterisk next to bonds also! as well as all of the 900's, the game is already broke, too late unless you want 2 recrd scores before and after.
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brenttsr

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2005, 03:38:42 PM »
tough decision
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PJM300

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2005, 03:43:22 PM »
I dont mind the cg less than and inch from grip center..  I do not see why the USBC logo needs to be on the ball to make it legal.  A ball that fits into the no weighthole, cg within an inch of center will still need to be tossed because of no USBC logo...  I honestly see that one not getting voted in...
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Steven

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2005, 04:07:40 PM »
In principle, I agree with BrunSlinger. I don't believe he's a snob -- he's just someone who want's more of a direct relationship between skill and scoring.

Having said this, for the most part, most 220+ average house bowlers will be affected vert little by the proposed changes. Most bowlers in this range have some release versatility and will suffer very little. I'm one of these hacks, and much of my equipment already meets the 'dreaded' USBC drilling specifications. Telephone numbers will still be a nightly ritual in this group. So for the higher end bowlers, it will not be the 'doomsday' scenario many here predict.

It's the current 180-210 average bowlers who will be hurt. You have a large percent of bowlers in this range who do depend heavily on leverage drilled equipment to carry strikes, and they're not going to be happy. What benefit is there in alienating this 'bread-and-butter' group? The answer is nothing.

The USBC is going down the incorrect path. The USBC/ABC lost the lane conditioning battle long ago, and it's a dead issue. They'll never wrestle control back from house owners.

It would be far easier and less disruptive to manipulate pin weight/design to control scoring. I don't know why the USBC is not pursuing that path.

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Edited on 5/1/2005 4:25 PM
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Re-Evolution

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2005, 07:09:17 PM »
quote:

It would be far easier and less disruptive to manipulate pin weight/design to control scoring. I don't know why the USBC is not pursuing that path.

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Edited on 5/1/2005 4:25 PM


Have you checked the price of pins lately, there are many small houses that only replace the pins every 3-4 years and even then they only do half at a time. They may not be able to budget having to replace all their pins at once.
Heavier and/or different weight distribution pins give an advantage to higher power players even more than they currently have.

The only 100% fair change is to make the conditions tougher.

It sure seems like a lot of people want to keep the WALL even though the proposed changes are going to have virtually no affect on some while inhibiting others.
Tougher conditions affect everyone.
Look at what it did to RevO when he went to the PTQ earlier this year.
No offence RevO but it was the best example I could think of.
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Steven

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2005, 08:44:25 PM »
quote:
The only 100% fair change is to make the conditions tougher.


Storm Track: It's not a question of 'fair'. Again, the USBC will never get lane conditions back under their control. The ABC lost this battle with the house owners years ago, and it's a done deal. You can fantasize, dream, or rationalize, but regardless of how painful it is, take in the following:

  It will never happen.

Now that you have the notion of lane control in perspective, think of the alternatives and what would work best for the broadest audience.
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nd300

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2005, 09:05:31 PM »
As was stated by a previous poster,it's the 180-210 bowler who will be hurt the most. And I'm one of them.........
 All but one of my current arsenal have balance holes. This means an adjustment in drill patterns to make them legal if things do pass as proposed. I personally hope they don't as this means a large expense to replace these balls in a couple of years. And I think that I'm not the only one who will have to replace equipment due to age, cover death after a couple of years more of use,or simply an update to technology that's current at that time when it gets here.
 Still, I agree that lane conditioning and oil patterns are the way to restore a little integrity.
 As to the post about steroids and Bonds,one thing that increased scoring in baseball was the lowering of the mound. Another was the rush to bring pitchers into the majors right away instead of two or three years' conditioning in the minors.
 And from experience from being on prescribed steroids,the effect tha it had on me was incredible. Not needing but a couple hours' sleep a night and not being tired,plus feeling really great after a workout all convinced me that steroids DO have an effect on you athletically.
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AllAirForceTwice

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2005, 09:26:31 PM »
They have to consider MBs, PAPs and Pin to PAP too... Not just CG... They are all related!

Pins need to be standardized... I hear only 3 companies make them, should be pretty easy.

Maybe like the PBA... 5 standardized THSs? Regularly taped and approved by USBC... (like Sport Bowling)

Inspect balls for honor scores...

The USBC works for us... we don't work for them... The PBA going to adopt this too? If they don't, I can't support the USBC.
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Boostz

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2005, 11:33:24 PM »
Personally, I do not have a problem with modifying the standards of the game, whether ball specs and/or lane conditions.  Some changes would be welcomed.   However, I do find fault with the approach USBS apparently is pursuing.  One of the things I find so distasteful about these proposals is that there is no indication that USBS has considered just how bowlers are to dispose of balls that would become obsolete.  Given that the proposals adversely affect probably hundreds of millions of balls, just where would one discard them?  Are bowling balls recyclable?  If so, where is such a place? Don’t really know, but conceivable this could evolve into a major environmental concern.
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TDC57

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Re: USBC- Why are people upset?
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2005, 11:36:18 PM »
Drrev2000,

Although you may be painting a gloomier picture than what will really happen, I do believe what you have posted contains some truth. The majority of today's league bowlers are not committed as the bowlers I grew up with. They could give up bowling in a heartbeat if some of the enjoyment is taken out. I know this for a fact because I hear them talk about how they will quit if league schedules are not cut to 30 weeks or if the price goes up too much. Enact these rules and the game will never be the same. Bowling centers will close and as I said before the snooty high rollers will be diddling with themselves instead of having a place to bowl.

Here's the choice to all you guys who complain incessantly about guys who average higher than you believe they should. Leave the balls alone, tighten up conditions a little and go to heavier pins if necessary so you guys quit shooting so many honor counts. The 175-200 guys aren't the ones blowing the scores thru the roof, you are. Let these guys still have a chance to score, most of the average league bowlers have lives and can't or wouldn't spend their every waking moment practicing. They have no intention of being pros, they just want to have fun once or twice a week.

This is no longer the 60s when bowling was about the only thing to do in the winter. Things have changed dramatically. The kids that post here and have the high averages are just that kids and are spending much of their time and money
on something they enjoy and not much else. The average league bowler won't. Leave them alone, shut up and bowl. You high rollers are the ones the USBC is after not us. Get real and understand that!!!!
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