Author Topic: Layout Questions (Read 888 times)

Jay · « **on:** August 14, 2009, 08:58:01 PM »

I've been wondering, does pin up or down(pin buffer) really affect WHEN a ball hooks? Lately I've been thinking it just affects HOW a ball hooks.

I've also been wondering about MB position a little. From my understanding, it works pretty similar to pin position, although I don't think under 2" is a good idea. I was wondering if beyond a certain length such as 6" it makes the ball smoother instead of snappier.
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Justin

i_throw_strikes · « **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2009, 06:31:59 AM »

the rule of thumb (at least where i was taught) the higher the pin the longer the length and the frather the cg from center of grip the stronger roll. closer pin to center grip the earlier and smoother the ball will roll. for the most part i beleave this to be true. thats why the rico is so smooth and rolly vs. a pin up and cg out is long and snappy hope this helps if not sorry

as far as the mb ive heard and seen various things based on a angle deal with 0 being on your negative axis point ive always heard your going to see a stronger reaction from a vertical line from you thumb to you pap.

Edited on 8/15/2009 6:35 AM

chipmunkbowler · « **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2009, 08:14:08 AM »

what i was taught (using the dual angle layout technique) was the further away the mass bias is from the verticle axis line the longer it goes before it hooks. if you were using the dual angle layout to get the maximum skid flip you would use a 90 degree center of gravity and a 0 degree val to put the mass bias as far away as possible so the rule of thumb with the dual angle layout is the bigger the cg angle the longer it goes and the shorter the VAL angle the longer it goes. its a similar rule with pin buffers if its longer it moves the pin up rotating the rest of the layout round with it causing the mass bias to be further away from the VAL causing more length before a turn. however the overall hook will always be the same (meaning that if u have a 4*4+3 and a 4*4+1 drilling they would both hook the same but they will hook at different points)

sorry for the essay

charlest · « **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2009, 09:25:04 AM »

quote:
what i was taught (using the dual angle layout technique) was the further away the mass bias is from the vertical axis line the longer it goes before it hooks.

Only to a degree, and only in relation to everything else being fixed. These are constantly changing relationships and as the pin distance, and Drill Angle changes, the VAL angle's results also change.

quote:

if you were using the dual angle layout to get the maximum skid flip you would use a 90 degree center of gravity

Do you mean Drill angle?

quote:

and a 0 degree val to put the mass bias as far away as possible so the rule of thumb with the dual angle layout is the bigger the cg angle the longer it goes and the shorter the VAL angle the longer it goes.

I believe the smaller the VAL angle, the quicker the response to the dry at the breakpoint. (the shorter the Val angle implies a smaller pin buffer)
Moving the pin distance from PAP affects the length (flare). To a lesser degree, increasing the Drill angle, from 10 degrees to 90 (or larger) changes both where the breakpoint occurs and the shape of the breakpoint.

The pin's influence is still primary and the MB's position is still secondary.

quote:

its a similar rule with pin buffers if its longer it moves the pin up rotating the rest of the layout round with it causing the mass bias to be further away from the VAL causing more length before a turn.

As far as I have learned, moving the pin (and pin buffer) doesn't automatically move/change the Mass Bias. Pin Buffer (Storm's term) is related to Mo's Dual Angle Val angle. MOving the PAP-pin-MB(CG) angle is the Drill Angle.

quote:

however the overall hook will always be the same (meaning that if u have a 4*4+3 and a 4*4+1 drilling they would both hook the same but they will hook at different points)

Agree, in theory.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Jay · « **Reply #4 on:** August 16, 2009, 01:46:30 AM »

What I was thinking originally is, smaller pin buffers make the ball respond quicker to friction. So if the ball encounters friction early, would it be more likely to roll out than if the ball had a larger pin buffer? Also, just a guess, but if the pin buffer is small enough, would that make the ball back off or set more after hooking(IF it hooks, since that high of a pin would make the ball go pretty long)?

What I'm wondering about the MB position(cg position on symmetrics) is two things. First, is shorter distances such as 3" strong and rolly, and as you increase the distance it starts to get weaker and more skid/snap? Second, is there a position/distance from PAP that promotes length and smooth backend?
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Justin

averagebowler · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2009, 04:26:11 AM »

i guess it all depends cause my friend has a ball drilled pin on ring finger cg on the palm. i think his pin is about 3" it gives him that smooth arch. not snappy at all nice roll to it too. i have that on my rogue cell i love it. try that drill pattern on your ball pin by the ring finger cg on the palm. mb under thumb.

Jay · « **Reply #6 on:** August 17, 2009, 03:51:46 AM »

Thanks for that info.

Anyone else?
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Justin

Author Topic: Layout Questions (Read 888 times)

Jay

Layout Questions

i_throw_strikes

Re: Layout Questions

chipmunkbowler

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charlest

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Jay

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averagebowler

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Jay

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