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Author Topic: Pitches question, once and for all....  (Read 3335 times)

a_ak57

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Pitches question, once and for all....
« on: October 14, 2004, 01:33:13 PM »
OKay, I'm still confused about what people refer to as "reverse" and "forward" pitch.......So, I took the liberty to make this little drawing.  (The half ball is so I make sure I'm correct in my references to lateral thumb pitch.  Which, btw, is supposed to be for a righty.  I assume that I am correct in believing the orange would be palm?  If I remember what the colors were, that is.)

So, look at the picture and answer.  What would the red/blue ones be called?   Which is which?  Is red reverse, or is it foward?  Or would one red be foward and the other reverse?  Or........

Reason I ask, there was a little debate about this before, adn I want this cleared up.  And EVERYONE can relate better to a picture, than words.

so.......

FIRE AWAY!!

I just wanna be on the same page, and be able to explain this to the Joe Bowlers on my team who I hate---er, try to help, until I go to another league next season----er, uh, help, because they're my friends.
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This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood a_ak57.

Edited on 10/14/2004 9:25 PM
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Tom

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2004, 09:56:15 PM »
a ak57,
Red in the fingers and thumb would be forward pitch.

Blue in the fingers and thumb would be reverse.

Send me your e-mail address and I will send you a layout chart.

Tom
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T-GOD

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2004, 10:01:20 PM »
Forget the green and orange drawing you have. Red is forward and Blue is away.

Basically what we're talking about is if we're toward the grip center(= forward pitch) or away from the grip center(= reverse pitch). =:^D
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Tom

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2004, 10:07:06 PM »
Sorry, I forgot the thumb.

Green= left lateral or sometimes referred to as away

Brown= right lateral or sometimes referred to as thumb under
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stanski

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2004, 11:02:47 PM »
blue is reverse, red is forward, green is left lateral, orange is right lateral.
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stanski
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T-GOD

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2004, 12:57:09 AM »
Mop,  
quote:
Reverse pitch is also called away pitch. The hole is pointed "away" from your palm
quote:
Everything in pitch is relative to the center of the bowling ball (notice how I didn't say center of your grip - grip center means nothing).
No, you didn't say "center of your grip", but you did say "away from your palm". Isn't your palm the center of your grip..? Hmmmm, I guess it does mean something..!!

Technically speaking, yes, pitch is relative to the center for the ball. But, for convenience sake, looking at the pictures ak57 provided, the grip center was referred to instead of the center of the ball. =:^D
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JohnP

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2004, 12:12:59 PM »
I'd like to add one thing to what Jeff Mop posted.  The lateral pitches are defined, right or left, looking down on the ball with the thumb on the bottom of the "circle" and the fingers on the top.  --  JohnP
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a_ak57

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2004, 03:30:05 PM »
Hmm, that's what I had figured, but I had heard different things from different people.

I will be keeping this TTT for a while, for anyone who wants to know the same thing.
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This post brought to you by your friendly neighborhood a_ak57.
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JohnP

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2004, 12:08:09 PM »
BrunsRicH --

quote:
Also, when a hole is pitched/angled a certain amount, say 1/4", it is in reference to the top of the hole, not the center of the bowling ball.


Are you sure about this?  If this is true (and if I understand what you're saying) the pitch would differ for holes drilled at the same angle but at different depths.  By referring to the center of the ball, pitch is the same regardless of the depth of the hole.  --  JohnP

Added on edit:  Also, refer to the definition of pitch in the glossary Jayhawk provides - http://www.jayhawkbowling.com/Pro_s_Corner/Glossary/glossary_new.html

Edited on 10/18/2004 12:01 PM
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JackDeJack

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #9 on: October 18, 2004, 01:47:46 PM »
BrunsRicH.
I saw just few times how to drill ball.
But...
If you drill hole straight down (zero pitch) its going thru any point (lets call it "P") on ball surface and the center of the ball.

If you want drill 1" pitch what you do ??
step 1. Point drill bit directly on point "P" as for zero pitch - you cant change drill bit angle !!
step 2. Then you have to move/slide ball 1" - direction depend of which pitch you want to achieve, in fact you moving ball center 1"
If you drill hole after "step 2" hole will miss point "P" and ball center by 1"
step 3. And then rotate ball that drill bit is pointing again on point "P".
If you drill hole after "step 3" hole will miss ball center by 1"

That why its PITCH not ANGLE.

We can measure angle between 2 lines or surfaces.
Its hard to measure hole angle - especially in ball.
What is reference point, hole center point, edge of hole etc ???
To drill hole in ball at any angle you have to rotate drill bit or ball in relation to point "P" on ball surface, but its very hard to do.

I think PITCH is easier.

AND Finally - we use inches (1/64, 1/32, 3/8 etc) not degrees, so its not angle.

Correct me if Im wrong and Ill delete this post.
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No Split's Too Wide, If You've Got The Balls !!!
Po t³umaczeniu na polski taci sens

Edited on 10/18/2004 1:40 PM

Edited on 10/18/2004 3:52 PM
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JohnP

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2004, 12:07:13 AM »
BrunsRicH -- OK, I understand what you're saying. Just a matter of semantics.

quote:
You say you can't change drill bit angle, probably meaning the top of the drill does not move, unless of course you are using a GilMac, where the top of the drill press angles as it drill the hole into the bowling ball.


Or you're using an old AMF sidewinder, like I am.  --  JohnP
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JackDeJack

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2004, 04:23:13 AM »
BrunsRicH,

Angle is measured in degrees !!!

I made draws can anybody help me to put them for all.
My email JackDeJack@wp.pl. Post me and I send you draws.
I cant put it on wetodd etc - my email is not valid for them

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_____________________________________
No Split's Too Wide, If You've Got The Balls !!!
Po t³umaczeniu na polski traci sens

Edited on 10/19/2004 9:29 AM

Edited on 10/19/2004 9:31 AM
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JackDeJack

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2004, 10:49:50 AM »
HELP ME with puttin somethere PICTURES - to make this post sense.

Best name for PITCH should be OFFSET (to ball center).
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No Split's Too Wide, If You've Got The Balls !!!
Po t³umaczeniu na polski traci sens

Edited on 10/19/2004 2:55 PM
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LuckyLefty

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Re: Pitches question, once and for all....
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2004, 11:42:55 AM »
This has turned into quite a debate over some simple concepts I think.

Two ways of thinking of putting holes in a bowling ball.
1.  Pitch in relation to center of ball usually quoted as right left, forward and reverse. All these pitches are quoted by the amount the center of the drill bit misses the center of the ball!

2.Another concept that is frequently talked about is forward and reverse in relation to the HAND.  Forward for both the fingers and thumb meands towards the palm of the hand or center of the palm or center of the grip.  Reverse or AWAY in the forward/everse direction means away from the hand or palm or the center of the palm.  Right or left can also be used as "AWAY" from the palm as in this right hander has lateral "Out" or "away" pitch meaning LEFT pitch.

Also what is important is what effect do these pitches have on ball flight and/or release.  Away pitches mean quicker exit of those digits.  Forward pitches means slower release of those digits or the fingers or thumb  stay in the ball longer than if the pitches were more reverse.

The effect of those changes in pitch are very important. 0 and forward pitches in the fingers give the fingers a lot of time in the ball coupled with reverse pitches in the thumb which give an early release of the thumb leads to lots revs and lift(classic setup).

Reverse pitch in the fingers(yes away from the palm)coupled with increasing forward pitch in the thumb(or decreasing reverse) suffice it to say a forward movement towards the palm delays thumb release and speeds finger release often giving a more modern release less hit from the fingers at release(they are out  faster and the thumb is out later).  This effect has less seperation between the releases of the digits.  (The lag between thumb and fingers is lessened and thus less lift and hit).  A smoother transition in breakpoint is the result.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS however many of us do not really have a problem with too much hit and release and therefore should stick with the classic setup.  Near 0 in the fingers with reverse in thumb if our span is greater than 4 1/4.  Or near 0 in the fingers with slight forward if our span is less than 4 1/4(still a classic setup).
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