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Author Topic: Bowling has lost it's integrity  (Read 10409 times)

usedtobowl

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Bowling has lost it's integrity
« on: November 22, 2017, 12:35:00 PM »
   I started bowling in the 60's. We had 7 centers in our town of 150,000 that were full with 2 shifts every night. Now 3 centers quite empty most the time. Pro bowling on TV was one of highest rated shows on ABC, what is it now. I believe its due in part to the  ridiculous easy scoring for league bowlers. The resin era has not been good for the sport. I believe the ball companies are to blame, they saw the money being made in the golf industry and wanted the same.  They failed to look at the dynamics, in golf you can give a bogey golfer the newest high tech clubs and he is still a bogey golfer. The only real way to improve is with better technique through practice. The last year I bowled was the first year of resin 1994, I can remember it was fun at first just standing left and throwing at the gutter and watching it come back and rip the rack like Mark Roth. Later I realized I struck even when I wasn't close to my mark or if the ball had slipped of my hand with no lift. My avg went from 190 to 220. It was hard to watch 160 avg bowlers now hit 700's without practice with terrible form  and brag about it. We used to look up to the pros who could ave 200, and turn in every week for a tip. Now you don't have to learn how to change your roll, loft, speed to adjust to lanes, just change balls. I know bowlers wont give up these balls and go back to rubber and plastic, but it would be good for the sport.

 

giddyupddp

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2017, 09:16:50 PM »
And? What is the point? No one argues the reasons for higher scores of today but I still do not see the point in continually waxing poetic about the past. Times change, bowling has changed, if someone wants challenges other than the THS there are plenty of tournaments and sport leagues out there for your enjoyment. I love cars from the 60's but I wouldn't want a total stock car from that era as my daily driver. But every weekend I still enjoy my 65 Fastback so I appreciate looking back and longing for a prior time but bowling is no going back to lacquer, plastic or rubber balls but if you are looking for a challenge you can find it...... Peace Out, dont be a hater.....

One of the other major differences between lane conditions of today and those in the old lacquer era was that back then, there was no "house shot" for the everyday league bowler. Everybody pretty much bowled on similar conditions, whether you were bowling in say, a mixed league or if your were bowling in a more competitive arena. ABC rules prohibited the walling of lanes and honor scores were routinely rejected if it was determined that the scores were bowled on "walled conditions".  The ABC (now the USBC) now allows for huge crowns. League bowling in the old days was in general, much more challenging than your typical league bowling is  today.  League bowling
in those days was in many ways, as challenging as it is bowling on many of today's "sport patterns". There was seldom any easy way to get to the pocket. Six baggers, let alone 300s, were very hard to come by.

The other major difference between sport conditions today vs. LEAGUE conditions in the lacquer era is that on today's sport conditions, it is usually the early going that is the most challenging. However, due to
the power of today's balls, and the higher friction created by not only the balls but
the generally consistent synthetic lane surfaces, it is often possible to "open up " a shot that was really unheard of in the old days. In fact, back then, scores were likely
to deteriorate during a block, thanks to the myriad of imperfections, dents, chips, severe track burn, epoxy patches, you name it, that was characteristic of wood lane surfaces.

One of the $64,000 questions often asked is how would  the modern (power)
game have fared if it were possible to go back in a time machine?  The real answer is that we will perhaps never really know for sure. Today's synthetic surfaces and lane oils make it virtually impossible to replicate the conditions back then. However, we can give it a best guess. That best guess is that the typical power release of today
might have SOME advantage, but not as much as one might think. Ball trajectories would have to be much more direct. Walking left and throwing right (with non bowling arm pointing towards the pins at the peak of the backswing) would have to be drastically minimized (there was a very good reason why old schoolers were taught to keep their shoulders closed, squared  and "silent"). Average ball speeds would have to
decrease because plastic balls rolled  on 50 ft of oil applied by a hand held spray gun had a very nasty habit of deflecting if thrown just a bit too hard, leaving 8-10s, 5-7's--- common leaves in those days.

In conclusion, traditional league bowling today (I left out sport bowling) is frankly, not nearly the challenge as it was years ago, thanks again, to 12:1 oil ratios and high powered modern balls that are the norm today. One very well known PBA bowler, now retired recently, used to bowl in a house shot summer league when he was not competing on the tour. One night, he arrived late for league. He asked a teammate what the shot was like to which he replied, "you have 2 arrows out there tonight". The PBA bowler paused, disappointed, and said, "yes, and by the end of the Summer I will be needing those 2 arrows." This pretty much explains typical league bowling today, and which did not exist during the lacquer era.

milorafferty

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2017, 09:27:11 PM »
One of the other major differences between lane conditions of today and those in the old lacquer era was that back then, there was no "house shot" for the everyday league bowler. Everybody pretty much bowled on similar conditions, whether you were bowling in say, a mixed league or if your were bowling in a more competitive arena. ABC rules prohibited the walling of lanes and honor scores were routinely rejected if it was determined that the scores were bowled on "walled conditions".  The ABC (now the USBC) now allows for huge crowns. League bowling in the old days was in general, much more challenging than your typical league bowling is  today.  League bowling
in those days was in many ways, as challenging as it is bowling on many of today's "sport patterns". There was seldom any easy way to get to the pocket. Six baggers, let alone 300s, were very hard to come by.

The other major difference between sport conditions today vs. LEAGUE conditions in the lacquer era is that on today's sport conditions, it is usually the early going that is the most challenging. However, due to
the power of today's balls, and the higher friction created by not only the balls but
the generally consistent synthetic lane surfaces, it is often possible to "open up " a shot that was really unheard of in the old days. In fact, back then, scores were likely
to deteriorate during a block, thanks to the myriad of imperfections, dents, chips, severe track burn, epoxy patches, you name it, that was characteristic of wood lane surfaces.

One of the $64,000 questions often asked is how would  the modern (power)
game have fared if it were possible to go back in a time machine?  The real answer is that we will perhaps never really know for sure. Today's synthetic surfaces and lane oils make it virtually impossible to replicate the conditions back then. However, we can give it a best guess. That best guess is that the typical power release of today
might have SOME advantage, but not as much as one might think. Ball trajectories would have to be much more direct. Walking left and throwing right (with non bowling arm pointing towards the pins at the peak of the backswing) would have to be drastically minimized (there was a very good reason why old schoolers were taught to keep their shoulders closed, squared  and "silent"). Average ball speeds would have to
decrease because plastic balls rolled  on 50 ft of oil applied by a hand held spray gun had a very nasty habit of deflecting if thrown just a bit too hard, leaving 8-10s, 5-7's--- common leaves in those days.

In conclusion, traditional league bowling today (I left out sport bowling) is frankly, not nearly the challenge as it was years ago, thanks again, to 12:1 oil ratios and high powered modern balls that are the norm today. One very well known PBA bowler, now retired recently, used to bowl in a house shot summer league when he was not competing on the tour. One night, he arrived late for league. He asked a teammate what the shot was like to which he replied, "you have 2 arrows out there tonight". The PBA bowler paused, disappointed, and said, "yes, and by the end of the Summer I will be needing those 2 arrows." This pretty much explains typical league bowling today, and which did not exist during the lacquer era.


Was it really up hill, both ways, in the snow to school?
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HackJandy

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2017, 11:36:47 PM »
Quote
Was it really up hill, both ways, in the snow to school?

The good ole days when gasoline and house paint still contained lead and there never was a shortage of ash trays in the bowling alley or the hospital waiting room.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2017, 11:47:35 PM by HackJandy »
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

bradl

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2017, 02:10:37 AM »
Quote
Was it really up hill, both ways, in the snow to school?

The good ole days when gasoline and house paint still contained lead and there never was a shortage of ash trays in the bowling alley or the hospital waiting room.

Hell! Back in my day while you guys were bowling, we were in line with the rest of the people in line out the door waiting to drop our quarter into a game of Donkey Kong!

What.. is it too early?  ;D :P

BL.

itsallaboutme

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2017, 07:10:35 AM »
All of you that think bowling is too easy need to go watch some leagues bowl.  Not good leagues, the leagues that make up 95% of a center's business.  Lane conditions have little effect on these bowlers.  Their scores have changed very little. 

If you want to blame anyone for the decline in league bowling blame the proprietors.  How many other businesses do you frequent that look the same as they did when they opened 40 years ago?

Don't get me wrong.  You can have something old and keep it nice.  But most bowling centers aren't the case.  All they have done is unlock the doors and maybe slap a coat of paint on every now and then.  And to compound the problem a good majority of those look like they haven't been cleaned in about as long. 

ignitebowling

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2017, 08:59:01 AM »
All of you that think bowling is too easy need to go watch some leagues bowl.  Not good leagues, the leagues that make up 95% of a center's business.  Lane conditions have little effect on these bowlers.  Their scores have changed very little. 

If you want to blame anyone for the decline in league bowling blame the proprietors.  How many other businesses do you frequent that look the same as they did when they opened 40 years ago?

Don't get me wrong.  You can have something old and keep it nice.  But most bowling centers aren't the case.  All they have done is unlock the doors and maybe slap a coat of paint on every now and then.  And to compound the problem a good majority of those look like they haven't been cleaned in about as long.

Also a great point. If anyone has ever watched restaurant impossible, bowling alleys are the same way. Family owned and ran for many years with no updating or cleaning for that matter. With little to no promoting.

The other issue for many is committing 32-36 weeks to a league. Not to mention how long most 5 person leagues take to bowl three games vs 4 person or less teams. Failure to adapt to the changing times and keep up with what people need from their entertainment dollar will hurt any business/industry.
Ignite your game, and set the lanes on fire. www.facebook.com/ignitebowling  or @ignite_bowling

BowlingforSoup

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2017, 09:15:40 AM »
They need to do a Bowling impossible show around here.We have 3 centers built in the 60s here.A few of my boogers I wiped on the wall are still there after 40 years.Lol :o

HackJandy

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #68 on: November 28, 2017, 09:52:21 AM »
Quote
Was it really up hill, both ways, in the snow to school?

The good ole days when gasoline and house paint still contained lead and there never was a shortage of ash trays in the bowling alley or the hospital waiting room.

Hell! Back in my day while you guys were bowling, we were in line with the rest of the people in line out the door waiting to drop our quarter into a game of Donkey Kong!

What.. is it too early?  ;D :P

BL.

Talking 10 years before Donkey Kong when there were only pinball and electro mechanical games.  That is the days the OP longs for.  Before urethane came and ruined bowling.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2017, 09:55:58 AM by HackJandy »
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

avabob

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2017, 02:19:21 PM »
Sorry I haven't kept up with all the posts, but lots of misinformation in the ones I did read.  ABC had no specific lane oiling rules during the lacquer era which ended in the early 70s.  Shot to the pocket was incredibly easy in those days.  Carry was the only thing that kept scores lower. 

As for old farts not being competitive, I just finished 8 games on the badger.  Averaged about 220 using a polished marvel pearl.  I whacked every young guy that was trying to open up the shot using surface.  I just played the shot like I did freshly oiled lacquer 60 years ago.

bradl

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2017, 02:29:06 AM »
Quote
Was it really up hill, both ways, in the snow to school?

The good ole days when gasoline and house paint still contained lead and there never was a shortage of ash trays in the bowling alley or the hospital waiting room.

Hell! Back in my day while you guys were bowling, we were in line with the rest of the people in line out the door waiting to drop our quarter into a game of Donkey Kong!

What.. is it too early?  ;D :P

BL.

Talking 10 years before Donkey Kong when there were only pinball and electro mechanical games.  That is the days the OP longs for.  Before urethane came and ruined bowling.

Oh, I know... I'm just making a joke about not being old enough to make old man jokes or reminisce and wax on about the good old dark days.  ;D

BL.

avabob

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2017, 12:54:15 PM »
Here is the bottom line.  It us not about integrity, it is about physics.  Hitting power of balks come from the difference in coefficient of friction between oiled surface and dry surface.  Hard rubber balls on lacquer did not have nearly the increase in friction going from oil to dry as did polyester, and subsequently resin on urethane or synthetic lane surfaces. 

People should note that polyester balls had been around for 10 years before they made a major impact on the game.  It was only when urethane lane finish replace lacquer in the early  70's that the advantage if the softer polyester became apparent.  Interestingly enough the transition to urethane balls in the  80's was a huge advancement only because of the ability to increase the COF by manipulating the cover.  The addition of resin in the 90's increased the COF on the dry without surface manipulation. 

Increase in scoring over the years has almost nothing to do with lane conditions.  Rather it is partly about increased talent and skill of bowlers, and partly about the ability of balls to store and release more energy due to increase in COF of balls and surfaces.

Impending Doom

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2017, 01:18:43 PM »
Man...

You guys are old!! :P

avabob

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Re: Bowling has lost it's integrity
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2017, 02:30:35 PM »
Older than dirt.  It dies give me a different perspective.  Arguments about walled lanes and hyped scoring are older than many of the posters on this board.  I remember sitting in a bar and having arguments about inflated scoring in 1976.