Author Topic: weak layout or weak ball? (Read 5183 times)

SVstar34 · « **on:** October 28, 2014, 09:35:15 PM »

What do you guys like to use when the lanes are either dry or backends are flying?

I've had a Roto Grip Shout (green) and a Motiv Ascent Apex this year for lighter stuff but I was never really a fan of either.
Shout's cover was too strong and overpowered the core for me and the Apex was stronger than expected.

Right now I'm considering either a ball like the Lights Out or Eruption Pro Hybrid with a weaker (smoother) layout or going with a Breeze. I feel like the Breeze might be too weak without using a stronger layout and some surface

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #1 on:** October 28, 2014, 10:03:43 PM »

Quote from: SVstar34 on October 28, 2014, 09:35:15 PM

What do you guys like to use when the lanes are either dry or backends are flying?

I've had a Roto Grip Shout (green) and a Motiv Ascent Apex this year for lighter stuff but I was never really a fan of either.
Shout's cover was too strong and overpowered the core for me and the Apex was stronger than expected.

Right now I'm considering either a ball like the Lights Out or Eruption Pro Hybrid with a weaker (smoother) layout or going with a Breeze. I feel like the Breeze might be too weak without using a stronger layout and some surface

Why not something like a Super Natural?

SVstar34 · « **Reply #2 on:** October 28, 2014, 10:09:37 PM »

I've got a Natural that I'm using for spares and it just isn't quite enough. I've shot well with it on fresh short patterns

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #3 on:** October 28, 2014, 10:18:42 PM »

Quote from: SVstar34 on October 28, 2014, 10:09:37 PM

I've got a Natural that I'm using for spares and it just isn't quite enough. I've shot well with it on fresh short patterns

Dont over-think it. If Natural is not enough and Shout is too much, then the only real logical choice that fits in between is the Breeze. The Lights Out is really angular on the back which would not be good on shorter/lighter patterns. You need something that is clean and yet controllable on the backend; which equals Breeze!

scotts33 · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2014, 12:43:34 AM »

Move in and throw something stronger for better carry if ball motion is correct. Stay out on shorter if slight surface and correct angle for carry with your stats. Since you don't state factors no one would know?

Pinbuster · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2014, 05:41:00 AM »

As far as weak layout versus weak ball I would go with the weak ball.

Coverstock is such a large portion of ball reaction that you can't drill it out. You can tame the reaction down some with drilling and surface adjustments but why bother. But a strong ball is still going to react more than a weak cover.

Get a ball designed for the condition you are attacking.

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2014, 06:23:58 AM »

When they are truly dry I prefer a weak ball WITH A WEAK LAYOUT. So both!

Rightycomplex · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2014, 06:42:48 AM »

I prefer weak ball as well. I love the shouts because they are versatile drilling and surface wise..... I've 3 of them with 3 different layouts and surfaces and had honor scores and big sets with all of them. The have a decently mid core so it's not like breeze where drilling isn't change the shape too much and needs more surface attention.

If the shouts too much and the natural isn't enough then go with the Breeze. I agree with 2Hands don't over think it.

Impending Doom · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2014, 09:38:42 AM »

If you're thinking of drilling a Lights Out for flying backends, try laying the core down. I am such a fan of putting 1 inch pin to pap drillings on weightblocks like this, it's not even funny. Cover should get you push, but the layout will help control the change of direction downlane.

Now, if they're dry up front, you need less cover. I wouldn't recommend adding surface to the Natural if the heads are gone, so I would use some kind of polish with a slip agent (3 coats of Control It used to work great for me) on the Shout.

SVstar34 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2014, 10:34:09 AM »

Quote from: scotts33 on October 29, 2014, 12:43:34 AM

Move in and throw something stronger for better carry if ball motion is correct. Stay out on shorter if slight surface and correct angle for carry with your stats. Since you don't state factors no one would know?

I'm already inside. The situation I'm talking about is when I'm dealing with 7 other guys with med-high rev rates blowing open the right side of the pattern. I normally can throw my Virtual Energy all 3 games by just making moves inside except in cases like this where the pattern gets blown open and other balls I've used still respond to friction too much and the Natural I have wants to hook early so I move left and there's not enough to carry the 10.

Quote from: Impending Doom on October 29, 2014, 09:38:42 AM

If you're thinking of drilling a Lights Out for flying backends, try laying the core down. I am such a fan of putting 1 inch pin to pap drillings on weightblocks like this, it's not even funny. Cover should get you push, but the layout will help control the change of direction downlane.

This is what I've been thinking about, possibly a 2-2.5 inch layout to control flare on an "entry" level ball or go weaker with a Breeze

scotts33 · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2014, 10:39:42 AM »

JMO but I never have found much success myself by balling down and staying out in the uber friction. There won't be any energy retention of the ball and the only reason you will carry is angle.

How deep do you get?

My move is deeper with more ball strength for best carry. VE deeper is the better choice IMO if you aren't out of your comfort zone. If you are out of comfort zone then work on a deep inside line. Just watching WSOB this week on flatter tougher conditions has been illuminating on how deep good bowlers really get.

SVstar34 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2014, 10:59:03 AM »

Quote from: scotts33 on October 29, 2014, 10:39:42 AM

How deep do you get?

My move is deeper with more ball strength for best carry. VE deeper is the better choice IMO if you aren't out of your comfort zone. If you are out of comfort zone then work on a deep inside line. Just watching WSOB this week on flatter tougher conditions has been illuminating on how deep good bowlers really get.

Not out of my comfort zone. I've played from the left gutter and was still dealing with overreaction, our pattern is only 40-41 feet while the PBA is using 44-45+ foot patterns except for Cheetah. I've been watching the PBA as well this week but we don't use similar oil patterns at all, I'd love it if we did

scotts33 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2014, 11:11:02 AM »

Since, most house shots put down a large puddle in the middle usually 12:1 ratios even with a 5 man format there is normally something inside you can catch in the heads. True the PBA patterns are longer and start with heavier volume but much flatter and break down quickly with rev rates and stronger equipment chewing up the lane conditioner. They don't have the 12:1 puddle in the middle the majority of any house shot that is put down day in day out.

I bowl myself in a 5 man league on 39' 19ml and 12:1 worn synthetic surface. My option is too ball up and move deeper crossing normally by end of league 17 to 20 at arrows out to 10. I have been using an Uproar if the house shot didn't have the big puddle the Uproar would work better hence I am thinking Yeti Uncaged at some point.

If I stay out in the burn with the others I have a SuperNatural Motion hole layout. Only angle allows me to stay out with weak ball with strong layout and still it's hit and miss. IMO bowlers do this cuz they haven't adapted with a different release, ball speed etc. to combat the condition but again each to their own. Again JMO.

SVstar34 · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2014, 11:31:43 AM »

I'm even deeper than what you stated you do. I've been out around 30 give or take a few boards and anything that got right of 15 would check up. Shout would hook early even polished, Apex had too much on the backend and when I kept both in the oil they had trouble carrying the 10 from the angle.

The Breeze has been stuck as an idea, I just haven't pulled the trigger yet because of the core. If they would use the Reactor cover again on a different core I would buy it right now.

scotts33 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2014, 11:52:27 AM »

Quote from: SVstar34 on October 29, 2014, 11:31:43 AM

I'm even deeper than what you stated you do. I've been out around 30 give or take a few boards and anything that got right of 15 would check up. Shout would hook early even polished, Apex had too much on the backend and when I kept both in the oil they had trouble carrying the 10 from the angle.

The Breeze has been stuck as an idea, I just haven't pulled the trigger yet because of the core. If they would use the Reactor cover again on a different core I would buy it right now.

What are your stats.?

Author Topic: weak layout or weak ball? (Read 5183 times)

SVstar34

weak layout or weak ball?

TWOHAND834

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SVstar34

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TWOHAND834

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scotts33

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Pinbuster

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BallReviews-Removed0385

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Rightycomplex

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Impending Doom

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SVstar34

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scotts33

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