Author Topic: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?) (Read 3417 times)

icewall · « **on:** July 31, 2009, 01:14:48 AM »

Ive been up against a house that keeps putting out a shot that is Wet in the middle and then not SUPER dry but a lot lighter then the middle.

it pretty much heavy from the middle all the way to 10 then medium to 5 and VERY light 5 to 1 and it seems to be heavy in the heads across the entire lane which makes it not possible to pipe up the outside (too much over/under)

Im a tweener so this has been bothering me as im stuck between the oil and dry. if I play outside the ball checks up early. if I play deep the ball hits light or not at all in the pocket. If I play in between OR straight up 10 I leave weak corners or something nasty.

currently throwing there:

black pearl OOB (800 polished) <----when dull it still has pop in the back
rouge cell (500/4000)
gladiator solid (500/2000)

also have: (but are far too weak IMO)

ogre ss
ogre pearl

im thinking that I need a ball at a duller surface to blend this condition but what ball to use and at what surface?

where to play the lanes is another question...?
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tweener
medium revs
medium speed
specs and ball layouts in profile

currently throwing
Visionary (O.P. / O. SS. / Glad S.)
Rotogrip (rogue cell)
lanemasters (black pearl)

Edited on 7/31/2009 9:18 AM

Edited on 7/31/2009 9:18 AM

Edited on 7/31/2009 9:21 AM

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #1 on:** July 31, 2009, 09:19:35 AM »

Have you tried using any delayed-reaction polish, like Valentino's UFO? This might let you get the ball into the friction more without it overreacting. I used it on the Cheetah last night on my Dimension and it gave me a very controllable smooth, rolly reaction in the friction.

icewall · « **Reply #2 on:** July 31, 2009, 09:44:30 AM »

quote:
Hand and Speed my friend, touchy shots DEMAND you find the right and and speed and do it consistantly to find the pocket.....
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GetOffMe10Pin

Starting 5:
1. Ebonite NVD
2. Raw Hammer Burn
3. Raw Hammer Psycho
4. Hammer Cherry Vibe
5. Target Zone

Bench:
1. Columbia 300 Rival
2. Ebonite Complete NV

I fear I am not that consistent. I tried up the outside where its drier and got firm with my speed but I threw it too fast and it blew past the break point. then I tried on the other lane with 1 mph less speed and it went thru the nose.

very frustrating... only thing I didnt try was a different hand position but that is because I just revamped my entire release as well as pitches and fit so I really only have one hand position im used to... didnt want to change in the middle of league. but if I have to I will
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tweener
medium revs
medium speed
specs and ball layouts in profile

currently throwing
Visionary (O.P. / O. SS. / Glad S.)
Rotogrip (rogue cell)
lanemasters (black pearl)

icewall · « **Reply #3 on:** July 31, 2009, 09:48:13 AM »

quote:
What's worked for me is a particle ball kept in the oil bouncing off the dry (not into the dry).

Gladiator solid should work just fine. Try a tight line inside the oil with this ball (15 to 10 at the breakpoint)
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Keep looking... I'm sure there's a 300 in one of those balls you keep buying!!
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(') here bunny bunny bunny....

this only works when there is enough dry. last week I shot 631 with it doing just that. but I tried it this week and it was over/under... not bad the first game (200) but after that there was so much backend I didnt know what to do.

so far the gladiator has given me the best shot but I have to play tight... such as maybe 13 to 8 or 9 (im not great at remembering where I played) but I do know that if I start at 15 (for me) the ball is not making it back.
--------------------
tweener
medium revs
medium speed
specs and ball layouts in profile

currently throwing
Visionary (O.P. / O. SS. / Glad S.)
Rotogrip (rogue cell)
lanemasters (black pearl)

JustRico · « **Reply #4 on:** July 31, 2009, 09:55:06 AM »

You can use surface and layout to pla either part of the lane.

Surface and a pin closer to your PAP to play more in the volume. A 2" X 2" works well. 2" pin to PAP on line to the ring finger and a weight hole 2" down the VAL.

If you want to play closer to the friction, smoother surface with less polish (polish can accentuate length and uncontrollable back end reaction) and a pin farther from the PAP, 5 1/2-6" with a possible hole straight across for more length and back end or down for smoother back end reaction.
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Formerly BrunsRico

As posted by Steven..."None other than our esteemed JustRico!!"

icewall · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2009, 10:33:38 AM »

quote:
You can use surface and layout to pla either part of the lane.

Surface and a pin closer to your PAP to play more in the volume. A 2" X 2" works well. 2" pin to PAP on line to the ring finger and a weight hole 2" down the VAL.

If you want to play closer to the friction, smoother surface with less polish (polish can accentuate length and uncontrollable back end reaction) and a pin farther from the PAP, 5 1/2-6" with a possible hole straight across for more length and back end or down for smoother back end reaction.
--------------------
Formerly BrunsRico

As posted by Steven..."None other than our esteemed JustRico!!"

hmmm that makes sense. too bad I just drilled up all my equipment and everything I have is pretty much drilled somewhat strong to strong.

good ideas though.
--------------------
tweener
medium revs
medium speed
specs and ball layouts in profile

currently throwing
Visionary (O.P. / O. SS. / Glad S.)
Rotogrip (rogue cell)
lanemasters (black pearl)

Jesse James · « **Reply #6 on:** July 31, 2009, 10:48:17 AM »

I would have to agree with what Inverted 1 suggested. That is one of my mainstays that I go to, when playing a shot like you describe. Your Gladiator dulled down and/or your Black Pearl dulled should do the trick.

The hardest area for me to play is the lite oil to dry area, because it's all about controlling your backend movement. I will always go down in surface to achieve control on the back, but then you sometimes sacrifice HIT, to do that.

I have however had success with a rico drilled pearlized piece in the lite oil, but used no polish. That drilling gives you a lot of control, and no worries about over/under.
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Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, but it still holds the universe together.

Some days you're the bug some days you're the windshield.

A_P_K · « **Reply #7 on:** July 31, 2009, 11:01:24 AM »

I am also in a similar situation don't know if you're familiar with Majestic lanes in NJ or not but they have reverted to a house wall now.

I have found the best results for me so far is to use a weakly drilled mild ball. I have a Too Hot with a pin to pap distance of about 6" and it just rolls. It doesn't roll early unless I push it into the dry before I need to.

I have found with a little higher roation and some loft it doesn't over react in the friction. As long as my speed is consistently where it needs to be I can ride just outside the oil line without over reaction.
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The original Pin Krusher

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** July 31, 2009, 11:19:59 AM »

Icewall,

I saw the info and suggestion about the Glad Solid. That would have been my suggestion. Maybe even some surface like P3000 or 4000 grit Abrlaon and play it straighter.

Also, here's something you may not have though of: Ogre Pearl.
A few months back I added some surface to the Gladiator Pearl, a very similar coverstock, strong and early for a polished pearl. It handled a surprising amount of oil.
So I suggest, take a P2000, P3000 or P4000 grit, depending on your ball speed and rev rate, and try playing much straighter, like 10 out 6/7, 11/2 out to 7/8. Depending on the drill, the Ogre Pearl will less backend sanded but handle more oil.

For me the Ogre Pearl, even polished, was almost like a particle pearl, it was so early and smooth.

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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Brodieman · « **Reply #9 on:** July 31, 2009, 11:26:30 AM »

Would a Urethane be out of line here?
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Frodo Baggins has failed...George Bush has the ring...

icewall · « **Reply #10 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:04:06 PM »

quote:
Would a Urethane be out of line here?
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Frodo Baggins has failed...George Bush has the ring...

probably a good choice if it was strong enough but im not looking to buy anything new.
--------------------
tweener
medium revs
medium speed
specs and ball layouts in profile

currently throwing
Visionary (O.P. / O. SS. / Glad S.)
Rotogrip (rogue cell)
lanemasters (black pearl)

icewall · « **Reply #11 on:** July 31, 2009, 12:17:13 PM »

quote:
Icewall,

I saw the info and suggestion about the Glad Solid. That would have been my suggestion. Maybe even some surface like P3000 or 4000 grit Abrlaon and play it straighter.

Also, here's something you may not have though of: Ogre Pearl.
A few months back I added some surface to the Gladiator Pearl, a very similar coverstock, strong and early for a polished pearl. It handled a surprising amount of oil.
So I suggest, take a P2000, P3000 or P4000 grit, depending on your ball speed and rev rate, and try playing much straighter, like 10 out 6/7, 11/2 out to 7/8. Depending on the drill, the Ogre Pearl will less backend sanded but handle more oil.

For me the Ogre Pearl, even polished, was almost like a particle pearl, it was so early and smooth.

--------------------
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

the gladiator is already at 2000 and even at that has a decently strong breakpoint... id be afraid to take it higher then that as I think it would make over/under even worse.

I would agree with you on the ogre pearl... early and smooth even when polished.

I dont usually bring that piece out as it simply wont make the turn when polished... I really didnt want to change the surface on that ball as ill need it polished in the winter but id be willing to dull it if it helps me.

I even have the gladiator pearl but it sits in the basement at the moment and has an old drilling on it.

now my ball speed is on the high side compared to what I see other players doing at that house (17mph). most people seem to be around 15. but when i slow down I have a hard time getting the same feel at the release and the backend becomes UNREAL! shots that I think are going to be flush pass brooklyn! and thats with my 2000 grit gladiator solid... a ball that is meant to have a hard arc at best.

TO APK:

Yes I bowl at majestic from time to time when no one else seems to have open lanes. im not too fond of the lanes or the carrydown that they leave from open play before i get there but at least the place is clean... plus it can be nice to have a LITTLE challenging condition there.

the house im struggling at is garwood lanes... yes I know its only 8 lanes but last year it was WALLED!!! so easy I didnt even have to think just throw right and bam the ball comes screaming back. didnt even care at all and had bad ball fit and averaged 204 LOL this year im really trying hard and avg 187 LMAO!

a 550 series is a decent night for me there.

its the type of shot where even the straight players beat me because they throw right next to the gutter with slow speed and it just walks into the pocket. it can be irritating but its part of the game.
--------------------
tweener
medium revs
medium speed
specs and ball layouts in profile

currently throwing
Visionary (O.P. / O. SS. / Glad S.)
Rotogrip (rogue cell)
lanemasters (black pearl)

A_P_K · « **Reply #12 on:** July 31, 2009, 02:41:38 PM »

As a matter of fact Charlest gave me an Ogre pearl he didn't want anymore which I ended up giving to a friend. The driller didn't follow the layout he wanted and it ended up with the pin in the bridge and the CG out to the right. If I had to venture a guess it is in the range of a 5.5x2.5 (pap of around 4.75x .5) layout for him. For him the ball still resembles the typical OP roll but is much smoother. It's basically as smooth and even as the Too Hot is for me but finishes just a touch stronger. He can feed it to the dry and it doesn't over react. You could try something like that.
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The original Pin Krusher

Mr Hurt24 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 01, 2009, 01:05:09 AM »

Well from my experience, Ive found out what works best for me is to use my Hammer Razyr and to put some surface on the ball (2000, 4000 works best). With my above average hand and firm speed i have, I tend to play straighter and with the friction. The surface controls the backend and lets me play the dry longer. Its been my go to ball for certain conditions and when i start to hit more and more carrydown, i would move further right or switch to a stronger solid or a strong polish pearl ball mainly my Pearl Cherry Bomb.
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Arsenal

Dimension
No Mercy
Black Widow Solid
Hy Road
Hot Sauce Pearl
Pearl Cherry Bomb
Rayzr
Urethane Black Hammer (spare ball)

Honor Scores
299 Big Time Pearl
299, 300 Cherry Bomb
836, 2 300 BW Solid
300 No Mercy
300, 804 Hy Road

Edited on 8/1/2009 1:07 AM

Edited on 8/1/2009 1:08 AM

Edited on 8/1/2009 1:08 AM

Author Topic: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?) (Read 3417 times)

icewall

Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

Dan Belcher

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

icewall

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

icewall

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

JustRico

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

icewall

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

Jesse James

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

A_P_K

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

charlest

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

Brodieman

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

icewall

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

icewall

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

A_P_K

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)

Mr Hurt24

Re: Wet/Dry condition (ball surface/lane play?)