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Author Topic: What Adjustments Would You Make?  (Read 1243 times)

n00dlejester

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What Adjustments Would You Make?
« on: April 20, 2010, 04:08:18 PM »
Hey BR folks, I have a bit of a scenario for you.  And pretend it's a game-show while you're at it, b/c for some reason when I wrote the title of this topic I heard Wink Martindale saying it.  

Anyway, so here's the scenario:  I'm bowling Tuesday night league, a second shift league.  I'm throwing the ball over the 10/11 board and looking to hit 7/8/9 at the arrows.  I have a fantastic look for about 1.5 games.  A bit of an early read prompts me to move to my left a touch, and it's back to a great look.  Then, for some odd reason, the end of the second game and beginning of the third turn into a giant mess.  This unbelievable over/under phenomenon occurs.  My adjustment to the left isn't working anymore as my ball is just skating past the breakpoint.  So I adjust back right, and it's hello Brooklyn.  I try throwing faster, looking further down lane, moving left and slowing down my speed...and it's this over/under nightmare.  I switch gear to something with a tamer cover - same thing; weaker cover - same thing.  This has been happening about 4 weeks of league now, and my adjustments have been very ugly these past 4 weeks.  

Now, what would YOU do if you were experiencing this reaction?  I preferably like to move my eyes/feet BEFORE switching balls.  I tend to switch gear after 4 consecutive frames of mass confusion.  

Wink Martindale has a fantastic prize if you give the correct answer!
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bighook69

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2010, 12:14:34 AM »
Right away without thinking a lot about it I would personally slow down a tad and move in a little and try and use the same break point as before. When I say move in I am talking only something like 4-5 boards in and then whatever eye adjustment to get the ball to the break down the lane at the same point as before.

Second thoughts on this would be looking around me to see where other people are scoring... and then trying to "borrow" their shot, or mimic them if they are scoring better than me.

Once your line is "gone" don't be hesitant to make a big move away from that spot...

doanekm

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2010, 12:16:49 AM »
I my self would cover down and smooth out the reaction. What i mean is something with a little more surface to stop the skid/snap.  It should work for you as well.
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snowspike1

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2010, 12:38:07 AM »
when  I  have  a  similar reaction I  have  2  diff  solutions.

1.   rev  the  ball  a  little  more  ,  moving  axis  rotation  from  the  45degree area  to  90degrees.  this  pushes  ball  down  even  more.  also  might  have  to  ball  down  for  this  to  depending  on  lane.

2.  move  right  and  throw  like  WRWJr..  more  forward  roll  ...  next  to  no  revs..

charlest

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2010, 07:13:52 AM »
Steve,

I'd tend to agree with snowspike1. Your main options
1. use much weaker ball and move right and/or change to a more end over end release,
2. Use stronger ball and move inside more, or
3. USe more axis rotation to both get the ball longer and provide more backend.

Almost as important is why this happened. I suspect you weren't watching other bowlers playing slightly deeper than you were and they burnt up the head area you tried to move into.
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Dan Belcher

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2010, 07:47:31 AM »
I fought the same kind of thing all season in my two leagues at one house that puts down one of the easiest oil patterns in the state. For the first 1.5 games, you have to go out of your way to miss the pocket (and I actually usually play the lanes pretty similar to how you described! Just move everything about two boards right).  However, since so many people play the same part of the lane and burn up all the oil there, the shot suddenly gets very wet/dry and the outside part of the lane is just on fire. I have had to attack it a few different ways.

If the outside part of the lane had dried up so badly that it felt unplayable over/under, I would move left with my feet and breakpoint and play in the heavier oil in the middle. If few people were playing there, I'd use my Cell (5.5" pin to PAP, pin under middle finger, MB in a fairly strong position) with a very light coat of polish, and focus on rolling it slower and making sure I didn't use too much axis tilt. If there was more traffic in the middle of the lane to help break it down, I'd use a Gravity Shift with a very light shine, or a more highly polished Second Dimension (both 5x5 pin up, slightly smaller pin buffer on the 2D and it also has a P3 location x-hole), or if they were hooking a lot inside, I'd throw my Reign and avoid the dry outside. The drier they get inside, the more I needed to pay attention to my hand position to make sure I got a little extra pop on the backend.

If the outside part of the lane was getting a little less traffic or the transition from oil to dry was more manageable, I'd keep my breakpoint outside, but switch to my Reign and increase my speed and to a smaller degree my axis tilt. Sometimes this would give me a hook/set kind of reaction if they were particularly dry, but this works pretty well sometimes (especially since it means misses to the right and into the friction will not hook through the face since they burn up earlier!).  And of course, if they just got too dry, I'd throw plastic right up the boards, and even though I've got very little hand, it still works if there's enough friction.  The last week of my Tuesday league, they got so dry I threw plastic and covered more boards with it than I did with my reactive stuff on fresh oil earlier that week.

al_g

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2010, 11:36:06 AM »
Your shot and Dan''s sound similar to my Thursday night scratch league. The first 1.5 games it''s stand left throw right, then the outside burns from everyone playing similar breakpoints. Some strokers and tweeners really struggle when it burns. Some don''t have the revs or can slow the speed down enough to move in and get it back. Some can''t increase the ball speed enough or back off the revs to stay in the dry part of the lane.

Here''s what works for me 80-90% of the time this happens. Before making hand or ball changes I''ll move my feet right and line left. Square everything up and play straight up the oil line or just inside of the oil line. I prefer just inside the oil line that way if I miss out a little I''m not hitting too much of the dry and may leave a 4-pin or 6-10 instead of a split.

You say you''re starting playing around 11 out to 8, make a move left and you''re OK and then another move left and then get into over/under. What happens if you square up and go straight up the boards in the 12,11,10 range?

If that doesn''t work I''d stay left and try to get the ball on the lane as soon as you can and get it rolling to combat the under reaction. You may even have to move back on the approach a little to get it rolling earlier. Personally, I''ll always try to work on fixing the under reaction to the over reaction. It''s easier to pick up a 2-pin, bucket or washout than a big 4, greek church or some other big split when you''re trying to figure things out.

Edited on 4/21/2010 11:39 AM

Andyman3333

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2010, 11:56:11 AM »
I'm assuming house shot.  This is the exact same reaction our house encounters.  

Sounds like you are playing right through the burn almost the entire night.  If I'm you, I make a huge jump left bring my eyes with me a number equal to half of the move with my feet.  It's really not that hard.  The last place you want to be playing is the place 95% of all bowlers play on league night, which is between 2nd & 3rd arrow.  ON a double shift, it's probably twice as bad.  And 92% of them stay there for the entire night changing balls and experiencing severe over/under reactions.  Anywhere right of that is probably a bad idea as well.  

You gotta assume that over that many games, not only is the area you've been playing burned up, but the area immediately to the left and to the right is burned up.  So 5 boards each way.  That puts 3rd arrow out of play and 1st arrow out of play.  If you're playing over the 2nd arrow in game 1.5, in game two, you could easily have a much better look playing over 4th arrow and targeting the same breakpoint. No ball change necessary.  This would require you to move your feet as many as 20 boards left.  Just get a little softer on your speed.  What you should find is plenty of head oil and a wall of dry around the 10 board. Your ball will store plenty of energy and hit plenty hard if you always try to maintain that breakpoint that worked in game 1.  That's why people make moves called 2 & 1's.  Two with your feet and one with your eyes.   As the night progresses, this could be as many as 20 with your feet and 10 with your eyes.  If you assume that the 1st, 2nd & 3rd arrows are out of play by game 2, 4th arrow is the place to be.  And if you're really good, you can move a little earlier in the night and not lose any frames when the ball jumps through the face.  


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n00dlejester

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2010, 02:07:10 PM »
Hey guys, I appreciate all the input.  I'll try to tackle some of the points brought up in posting order.

@BigHook:  That is something I've always been hesitant about is making "bigger" moves.  For me, at this particular house, a parallel move left/right are usually the best moves for me.  Sometimes, a 3+2.  But after that I'm more or less ignorant about.  I don't hook the ball a lot, I'm very very much a down & in player.  So making a 5+3 adjustment would be something I'm very scared of, lol.  But this is an option, and a viable one.  The tough part about people who were scoring well last night...was that nobody was.  So it was hard to judge what was working/wasn't working off of a bunch of mediocre games with tons of splits.  

@doane:  that is one thing I haven't tried either.  I like that idea a lot actually, since my game is very equipment dominated (I'll expand on this in a the next reply).  

@snowspike:  Hand positions and n00dlejester do not get along very well.  I have an A game and a B game, and anything other than that is a disaster.  My A game is not quite end over end but close-ish.  I can add more side roll to get it down the lane easier with more backend hook.  If I take any more hand out of my ball, the ball might just stay there, lol.  I have maybe about 240 revs, the most I ever put on a ball that was measured for revs was 270, lol.  But I'd say I'm under 250rpms on average.  That said, I did try putting some more side roll on the ball while playing deeper and it just resulted in an even more uncontrolled over/under reaction.  

@Charlest:
quote:
Almost as important is why this happened. I suspect you weren't watching other bowlers playing slightly deeper than you were and they burnt up the head area you tried to move into.
 I think what may have enhanced last night's debacle was a moron on my team sanding a ball to 320 and throw it right up 15 and hitting the left channel.  He only did this a few frames, but I'm sure this helped screw the lanes up good.  But your point is true - I have a bad habit of not watching where others are playing.  This is especially true on tougher patterns where I am way right of everyone, but when I have to move left I need to make a huge jump into the area everyone else is at instead of just a small move left.
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n00dlejester

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2010, 02:19:01 PM »
quote:
I fought the same kind of thing all season in my two leagues at one house that puts down one of the easiest oil patterns in the state. For the first 1.5 games, you have to go out of your way to miss the pocket (and I actually usually play the lanes pretty similar to how you described! Just move everything about two boards right).  However, since so many people play the same part of the lane and burn up all the oil there, the shot suddenly gets very wet/dry and the outside part of the lane is just on fire. I have had to attack it a few different ways.

If the outside part of the lane had dried up so badly that it felt unplayable over/under, I would move left with my feet and breakpoint and play in the heavier oil in the middle. If few people were playing there, I'd use my Cell (5.5" pin to PAP, pin under middle finger, MB in a fairly strong position) with a very light coat of polish, and focus on rolling it slower and making sure I didn't use too much axis tilt. If there was more traffic in the middle of the lane to help break it down, I'd use a Gravity Shift with a very light shine, or a more highly polished Second Dimension (both 5x5 pin up, slightly smaller pin buffer on the 2D and it also has a P3 location x-hole), or if they were hooking a lot inside, I'd throw my Reign and avoid the dry outside. The drier they get inside, the more I needed to pay attention to my hand position to make sure I got a little extra pop on the backend.

If the outside part of the lane was getting a little less traffic or the transition from oil to dry was more manageable, I'd keep my breakpoint outside, but switch to my Reign and increase my speed and to a smaller degree my axis tilt. Sometimes this would give me a hook/set kind of reaction if they were particularly dry, but this works pretty well sometimes (especially since it means misses to the right and into the friction will not hook through the face since they burn up earlier!).  And of course, if they just got too dry, I'd throw plastic right up the boards, and even though I've got very little hand, it still works if there's enough friction.  The last week of my Tuesday league, they got so dry I threw plastic and covered more boards with it than I did with my reactive stuff on fresh oil earlier that week.


I was watching your sample video you posted in your profile, and that is more or less how I bowl to be honest.  It's kinda frightening b/c that's the type of reactions I got on the USBC shot with my Dimension lol.  

Either way, the idea of moving everything inside of that oil cliff is another good idea I should be more mindful of because, as I said in the previous post I made, I'm so ignorant (for lack of a better term) about making larger adjustments on a THS.  You also mention the same idea doane did - a stronger ball from the inside.  Seems like this is a move that should be a much higher option up my bowling food chain.
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Jesse James

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2010, 04:32:39 PM »
Very interesting thread. Going inside with a stronger covered ball sounds feasible, but my first instinct would be to do like Snowspike and jump right of everyone else.

But not by a little bit. At least a 4-5 board move, ball down, and go more direct. I'm used to playing really tight lines so this not a problem for me.

Just my two cents.
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six pack

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Re: What Adjustments Would You Make?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 11:22:39 PM »
solid particle,pearl particle and urethane.the idea is to tame the core down some with layout and adjust the covers.I have an Ogre particle 2000 abralon,new breed particle pearl 4000 abralon and slight polish and black hammer urethane 1000 abralon.
this set up works great for over/under house patterns for me.I burn the track down with the O.P. and switch to the NBPP when needed. the black Hammer is used for spares and if the shot burns out.
I don't think you can out play this condition with reactive,I've tried.
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