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Author Topic: Accused of "ruining" a league  (Read 6006 times)

HamPster

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Accused of "ruining" a league
« on: February 08, 2011, 12:56:47 AM »
My wife and I bowl with two other guys in a 4 person team mixed league (rules are that at least one member of every team has to be of the opposite gender).  It's a great league, I'm not really a fan of handicap leagues, but the people are great, and it's still a competitive league, just not overly competitive, people don't get all cocky or pissy.  Well, our team is kind of a loaded team.  Not really intentionally, that's just how it fell together.  At the league meeting at the beginning of the year, all of us voted to raise the handicap in the league so it would be more fair, even knowing that would hurt us.  There isn't much money in the league anyway, so there's no reason to be super competitive.  The handicap is 80% of 840, up from last year which was 80% of 800.  There was a vote to make it 90% of 840, but the rest of the league didn't want to make that size of a jump all in one year. 

 

Last year we had a 140 avg woman bowling with us, and I bowled lefthanded.  This year I'm bowling righthanded, and the lady from last year wasn't able to come back this year, so we replaced her with a kid straight out of youth leagues that is around mid 220s.  He was looking for a team at that house on that night, and we all know his sister really well, plus we needed a teammate and were having trouble finding one.  Our team average isn't obscenely over 840, but enough that if our team and the other team both shoot our averages, we will win fairly comfortably. 

 

The league president is known as kind of a backstabber, or a guy that talks a big game until it affects him, then he bails.  Well, the first time we bowled his team earlier in the year, they smoked us, we had an off night, and they were on.  Didn't say a word about it.  We won the first half, and had several good nights and one ridiculous night in there (2950 with a single game of 1039), and still nobody said a word.  There are other pretty good or slightly loaded teams in the league that were around the top too, and the league president's team is one of them.  We bowled them again this last week, and it was the other way around, they didn't bowl so well, and we shot 2850.  This time however it was different.  The president went around complaining to people about how we are ruining the league because no one else can keep up with our scoring pace, and it went so far as someone complaining to the owner/manager of the bowling center.  As of this half, we are in 4th place, and the team that finished second last half is running away with this one. 

 

I can just see an average cap being instituted next year, or at the very least raising handicap to offset our advantage, and I can see it being done at the league meeting at the beginning of the year.  I really like the league, and don't want to quit, but does anybody have an idea how we can handle this?  We didn't assemble this team with the intention of running everyone else out of the building, we just all like bowling together and happen to all bowl well.  I know it's not fun to go up against a stacked team when you know you have a small chance of winning, but it makes it all the better when you can knock them down, or when you have something to shoot for.  Maybe that's not how the rest of the people in the league feel.  It's ok when they're winning, but as soon as they aren't, they find any excuse to call foul. 

 

I'm not trying to create drama out of this, I'm wanting to know how to avoid it.  I just like bowling, and bowling in that league, and I'd like to do it without irritating people or being perceived as "cheaters," in a sense, but I don't see how it will be possible next year to keep the same team and stay in the league unless the handicap is jacked up to ridiculous proportions. 


That's just like, your opinion, man.

 

nutsforbowling

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Re: Accused of "ruining" a league
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2011, 10:04:27 AM »

 



txbowler wrote on 2/11/2011 9:38 AM:
This is a perfect example of what bowling has evolved into today:

 

1) EVERYONE, NO MATTER THEIR AVERAGE, WANTS to WIN.

 

2) Scratch leagues in most areas of the country have failed because the top 3-5 averages guys in town got smart and started bowling together, and couldn't get beat. (See point #1)

 

3) Every recreational league in the area I know of (Dallas area) pays some amount of $. (see point #1)

 

4) If you have no shot at winning any money, eventually you quit trying. (see point 1 & 2).  Or you have a money tree planted in your backyard.

 

 Most of the bowlers that bowl in the leagues I bowl in bowl to win that league.  The want to be competitive.  They also want to bowl with their buddies, wives, girl-friends, co-workers, drinking pals, tournament teammates etc.  

 

Think about it.  Would you bowl in any league for 30+ weeks paying between $12-$25 a week when you knew at the beginning of the league you had no shot at winning the league?  I doubt it.  But you are asking the 160 average teams to do just that. 

 

 

 


 

Edited by txbowler on 2/11/2011 at 9:43 AM

This is one of the best posts I have seen in a while, and it is all true. Now how could we change things to keep people bowling?

 

Would people bowl in a league that had NO prize fund, just pay whatever the lineage and sec/treas fees are? If so, would they accept the 100% handicap to make things even, or would some still want an edge for the competiveness in themselves? Are they bowling just for the enjyment of the company of others or do they want to beat someone else's brains in?

 

I believe the USBC states that the handicap  base should be set off of the highest average in the league. How many leagues actually follow this now?

 

I have always thought that leagues should exist to get people to come out and bowl, not to make a profit off of it. That is what tourament bowling is for.


i say you he dead!!!!!!!!!!!!

HamPster

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Re: Accused of "ruining" a league
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2011, 10:40:07 AM »
Obviously you're in the crowd that can't read or pay attention anyway.  How am I faking naivety?  And how can you miss what I wrote in plain english? 

 

I've said over and over and over again that I want to make it more fair because we like the league.  I KNOW IT'S NOT FAIR THE WAY IT IS NOW and I've said that several times.  We are NOT CURRENTLY FACING ANY CHALLENGES.  You then say you fail to see how we would ever be getting screwed in the league, yet then you predict we get kicked out or the league would fall apart.  How would that not be getting screwed?  Read what I've said, pay attention, or don't comment.  I can't make it any clearer than it already is. 
 



The Omnipotent wrote on 2/11/2011 8:30 AM:
I'm sorry but I am bailing out on this thread.  "HamPster likes a challenge but doesn't want to be screwed."  It's a freaking mixed league but he's good enough compared to the others that he bowled left handed.  He votes for an 80% handicap knowing full well that his team has the advantage.  Then he brings in a 220 avg bowler.


I fail to see how you are facing any challenges and how you would ever be getting screwed in this league.  Prediction:  your team gets kicked out of league for next year or majority doesn't come back because they don't want to bowl with a "League Killer" which is what you and your team is.  Seen it all before and I just can't take the fake naivety any more. 
 






HamPster wrote on 2/10/2011 10:30 PM:

I'd love to see that study.  I tell you what, I'll keep totals on how it would go if every team we bowled got that the rest of the year and see what happens.  If that makes it truly fair, then with a total of 4 points a night, we should average a 2-2 split every night, correct?  To be perfectly honest, I don't want to feel like I'm being completely screwed, but I always like a challenge. 
 






The Omnipotent wrote on 2/10/2011 8:01 PM:

You want to make it fair?  The I guess you'll be the first to suggest a handicap of 116% of  the difference of team averages.   That's what has been determined to even the odds in studies by USBC.  Should be the end of the story, shouldn't it?




 



 



 



"Stupid is as stupid does.  And you sure do a lot!"


That's just like, your opinion, man.



 


 


 


"Stupid is as stupid does.  And you sure do a lot!"


That's just like, your opinion, man.

HamPster

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Re: Accused of "ruining" a league
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2011, 10:46:28 AM »
Man I'm sick of repeating myself.  It would take an hour to gather up the quotes of every single time I've said how it is right now isn't fair, I know that.  Everything I tried, said, or voted for was shot down.  Everyone knew what they were up against, everyone knew the situation, and nobody listened.  Pay attention to what I say PLEASE.  How many times have I said I want to make it fair?  I'm not asking 160 average bowlers to put their money in so we can run the table and take it.  We like the league, we want to stay, there's no money in it, and the way it is right now isn't fair.  I wanted to know what to do to avoid being forced out of the league.  Thanks all that have been helpful, and for all those that obviously haven't gotten what I've said over and over and over again, I don't know what else to say.  Topic locked. 
 



txbowler wrote on 2/11/2011 9:38 AM:
This is a perfect example of what bowling has evolved into today:

 

1) EVERYONE, NO MATTER THEIR AVERAGE, WANTS to WIN.

 

2) Scratch leagues in most areas of the country have failed because the top 3-5 averages guys in town got smart and started bowling together, and couldn't get beat. (See point #1)

 

3) Every recreational league in the area I know of (Dallas area) pays some amount of $. (see point #1)

 

4) If you have no shot at winning any money, eventually you quit trying. (see point 1 & 2).  Or you have a money tree planted in your backyard.

 

 Most of the bowlers that bowl in the leagues I bowl in bowl to win that league.  The want to be competitive.  They also want to bowl with their buddies, wives, girl-friends, co-workers, drinking pals, tournament teammates etc.  

 

Think about it.  Would you bowl in any league for 30+ weeks paying between $12-$25 a week when you knew at the beginning of the league you had no shot at winning the league?  I doubt it.  But you are asking the 160 average teams to do just that. 

 

 

 


 

Edited by txbowler on 2/11/2011 at 9:43 AM


That's just like, your opinion, man.