BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: TDC57 on November 17, 2013, 10:52:03 PM
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Week after week my pocket percentage is extremely high. I have been hitting the pocket with authority and have not been able to string strikes. I'm a lefty and have been leaving solid 7 pins and solid 10s. I watch other guys in my league who don't seem to throw as good a ball as I do and they put together strings of strikes for big games, quite often. I have consistently shot between 570 and 600 almost every night. My high series is 657, but most of the other nights over 600 were about 610. I don't miss many spares and have had only one night that splits plagued me.I just can't figure it out. Guys I bowl with just shake their heads as they don't understand it either. Is it possible that my ball speed is the culprit? I throw between 13.5- 14.25 mph on most every 1st ball I throw. I could use some input as I'm puzzled. Thanks in advance!!
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Sounds to me like an entry angle issue. Are you experimenting at all with different balls? Or perhaps slightly different surfaces?
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Are you sure they are all solid? Not trying to be rude or anything, but you would be on the lower end of the ball speed spectrum, and most people I know with similar ball speed are about 50/50 on a solid or weak corner leave.
Entry angle to the pocket is your main culprit. You either have too much or not enough angle. A ball speed adjustment could help as well, if you're in the pocket mostly then you're just in a need of some very small adjustments.
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Idk im a slower player as well...I carry EXTREMELY well kost of the time. My biggest isue is the ball deflecting too much. Ill catch myself throwing a 4 bagger and realize that all 4 shots exited the pin deck like 5 boards right of where it should have..
Is that due to slower ball speed too? Or crossing toonmany boards? Thanks in advance..
TDC when I have a bad skid of carry issues I either:
Revert back to a control ball that I rolly really well
Change surfaces on a few balls..
Get a new ball lol.
Video tape myself..
Have someone far more superior than me analyze my game...
If I exhaust all of thise steps..usually I fix my slice...
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The 10s are almost always a solid leave as a result of an extremely potent hit. Not every 7 is solid but the majority are, I'm sorry for not explaining that better. I use mainly pearlized equipment as my slower ball speed has dictated that to me. My main equipment has been a Columbia TI-Pearl Messenger, Motiv GT-1 and a Hammer Black Widow Pearl. All with a medium surface. I bowl on Qubica synthetics with a shot that keeps me usually setting the ball on the 8 board with it going out to the 5 or 4 board. Playing any further inside to get more oil and swinging it isn't my game. I'm 56 years old and have been a down and in guy forever. Switching from righty to lefty limited me to that type of line.
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bildozer, as I said, guys that are pretty good bowlers watch and can't figure out why I don't carry better. I really do have an extremely high pocket pct. I am not a guy who thinks just because you get to the pocket, you should strike. Been bowling too long and know much better than that.
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Maybe you're just unlucky right now.
That's how I felt the other night after throwing 28 straight in the pocket and slamming four 10's across 2 games for two 269's
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SV, That is what I've been thinking the last few weeks. Two weeks ago I threw the first 15 balls of the night dead flush and had only a double to show for it. Three weeks ago I had 29 hits out of 33 of 9 or strike. Only about four of those were not quality shots. I just wish the dark cloud would lift soon!
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everyone knows that feeling.
that's why you still have to play the game. Hell, I'm even averaging higher on sport shots this fall than house shot. And when I finally thought I figured it out, pins dont go down.
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SV, That is what I've been thinking the last few weeks. Two weeks ago I threw the first 15 balls of the night dead flush and had only a double to show for it. Three weeks ago I had 29 hits out of 33 of 9 or strike. Only about four of those were not quality shots. I just wish the dark cloud would lift soon!
Sorry, but from my point of view, there's no such thing as being this unlucky for such a long period of time. Been there, done that. There is always some reason.
Based on your descriptions, I'd suggest that some factor is making your pearls go slightly too long and hit slightly behind the head pin. It would seem like it's just a tiny factor. Some possibilities are too much polish on the ball (were any recently refreshed?), colder weather, like humidity, make the oil and the lane surface seem like it has slightly less friction; has there been maintenance on the oil machine or have they slightly modified the pattern or amount.
What you might try is to get the ball into a roll just a hair sooner, so it goes thru the skid/hook/roll transition a tiny bit sooner. Hazing the polish by hand with a Scotch-Brite light grey pad or a 4000 grit Abralon/Siaair pad could help (just to "haze" the gloss off a small portion of the ball). Adjustments to delivery could include moving maybe 1/2 board - 1 board with your feet left or right to hit the dry maybe one foot sooner at the breakpoint.
I think you're only off a tiny bit. If you were off a lot, you'd probably be carrying a ton of light hits. That's no consolation, I know.
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First I would wonder if your ball is rolling out as it gets to the pocket. With the slower ball speed that is a possibility.
Two, I'm not that familiar with a couple of the balls you listed and I don't know what kind of drill you have on them. If the balls you are using have more of a skid/snap reaction then I would try and get something that more arcing. I'm not sure more surface would work with your slower speed and it might roll out for sure. But I would definitely be looking for a different shot shape. So if your drills are to go long to a drill that would arc more, if they are arcing drills then go to something that would go longer.
Three, You might have to get out of your comfort zone. I know I sometimes find that the easiest path to the pocket doesn't carry well. But I can play a slightly different part of the lane and have a much higher carry percentage. Maybe I miss the pocket once in while but the extra strikes more than make up for it.
I feel your pain on the ball speed. I have lost a lot of ball speed over time and struggle with it now. But unfortunately it appears with strength of todays balls you need good speed to open up the lane and create some of the mixer carry.
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I think the strength of today's equipment is one of the reasons I'm still using older stuff. I know for a fact I'm not experiencing roll-out. I only see that if I use some of my stronger stuff at my home house that I normally save for heavier shots at tournaments. Of the three balls I mainly use, the drillings are label leverage on the Messenger, stacked leverage on the GT-1 and pin above the ring finger with the cg kicked out slightly left. I agree with you Pinbuster on creating some mixer carry. This past week it was colder out and the lanes seem to play tighter and I couldn't get to the pocket quite as well at the beginning of the night. I carried light shots a number of times. When the lanes broke down a little I was back to hitting pretty flush with every shot and my lack of carry came back. Charlest, I also agree with you that this is not something major, just something off slightly, that is why it's so frustrating. I have tried slight adjustments and have come up high or just had pretty much the same outcome as before. I think maybe I should just keep plugging away and hope something changes. I'm not unhappy with how I'm doing and actually my average is up a couple of pins from last year, but when I see other guys with the same or less game than I have, shooting higher scores more often, I have gotten a little frustrated.
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The 10s are almost always a solid leave as a result of an extremely potent hit. Not every 7 is solid but the majority are, I'm sorry for not explaining that better. I use mainly pearlized equipment as my slower ball speed has dictated that to me. My main equipment has been a Columbia TI-Pearl Messenger, Motiv GT-1 and a Hammer Black Widow Pearl. All with a medium surface. I bowl on Qubica synthetics with a shot that keeps me usually setting the ball on the 8 board with it going out to the 5 or 4 board. Playing any further inside to get more oil and swinging it isn't my game. I'm 56 years old and have been a down and in guy forever. Switching from righty to lefty limited me to that type of line.
After reading all the posts....your words here setting stood out to me and correlates with what Pinbuster said. When bowlers tend to set or place the ball rather than getting it out on the lane the ball may roll out of not drive thru the deck and leave weak back row leaves. I am not speaking of hitting up on it (ie old urethane release from days one by ala Mark Roth) but out on the lane (modern resin release). If you don't get t at least 6"s to a ft. + over the foul line you are dropping it and I can see if you are a former righty gone lefty then this could be an issue. It also could be a ball fit issue not getting out of the ball clean and dropping it. I'd check this first before going to other areas. Video would do wonders so you can see yourself. Cheap way to check. Also practicing towel at foul line can be a good check.
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Ok, "setting" may be a bad choice of wording. I look at the 8 board and send the ball out to the 4-5 board. I don't know what made you think I don't get the ball out over the foul line but my ball routinely lands about 18 inches past the foul line. I have no "fit" issues as I get out of the ball very clean. Absolutely no issue with weak back row pin leaves. That was my point when I said guys shake their heads with how solid I hit the pocket and yet don't seem to carry as well as you would think I should, with such a hit. I appreciate your interest in helping, but in this case what you raised as issues, are not.
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Ok, "setting" may be a bad choice of wording. I look at the 8 board and send the ball out to the 4-5 board. I don't know what made you think I don't get the ball out over the foul line but my ball routinely lands about 18 inches past the foul line. I have no "fit" issues as I get out of the ball very clean. Absolutely no issue with weak back row pin leaves. That was my point when I said guys shake their heads with how solid I hit the pocket and yet don't seem to carry as well as you would think I should, with such a hit. I appreciate your interest in helping, but in this case what you raised as issues, are not.
No problem your words were setting...semantics and on-line words. Wish you good luck!
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I would suggest looking how the ball rolls through the pin deck and not what you're leaving. If your ball is splitting the 8-9 every time, I'd find it hard to believe you're leaving lots of 7 pins. While your ball may not be rolling out, it may be losing energy quickly and as a result deflecting. Watch where the ball goes and you will find your answer.
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Thanks for the good wishes Scott, they are appreciated. Urethane Game, I wouldn't say I'm leaving lots of 7 pins. I would describe it more as leaving a number of solid 7s and almost as many solid 10s around strikes causing me to get few longer strings of strikes that would help get higher scores. I know everyone has these problems from time to time, but mine seem to happen weekly. Good bowlers from other teams tell me they can't believe how I don't seem to catch a break on seemingly good hits. I'm not fretting over this as my main concern was whether or not my ball speed may be the main culprit. That is something I could deal with.
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So, last night was a rough night with carry. After the night was done, this topic came to mind where the issues with carry were similar. I was watching PBA bowlers, and numerous other great bowlers, leave numerous corner pins. It didn't matter what they did. But since I don't bowl this league all the time (first time this year) I wasn't stuck throwing the ball in the normal place. I looked at the shot with a fresh mind without any preconceived notion of where to play. I did have better carry than others but I can't say I threw the ball great.
Long story short, it appeared the difference between those who carried well and those who didn't was where they played the lane. Had nothing to do with type of ball being used or release type, though straighter bowlers appeared to do well.
Sometimes what is necessary is a set of fresh eyes on a shot to help determine where changes can be made. We are all guilty of walking into league and expecting the same shot as the week before. We get out the same ball, stand in the same place and throw the ball the same way over the same mark. And when things are a little different, we can't fathom why we aren't scoring our normal scores. What I would do is start fresh. Perhaps start off targeting a different line or using a different ball. Do something different and then go from there. It is difficult for anyone to know what you are going through since we aren't there. How does that saying go....
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
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spmcgivern,
I agree with everything you have said. I think my fix may be more along the line of trying a different ball. Knowing the pattern we have also tells me I probably wouldn't be better off on a different line. I think changing the entry angle by having a different shape path to the pocket is more likely done with a different ball. Again, my question really hinged around my ball speed and does that keep me from scoring as well as those who throw the ball harder than I. Thank you everyone for your input. That is why I like this site, you get many varied responses and most, many times won't fit, but just the process of thinking more about the problem creates a shot at the right answer!
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Speed certainly can have an effect, lower speeds don't result in as many hits where the head pin comes across the lane to take out the 10 pin. Try adjusting your shot to come in a little lighter than a "solid" strike. Not the shot that leaves a weak 10 pin, just a little lighter than that. Sometimes that will carry when the solid ball won't. -- JohnP
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TDC57,
I am also a guy with slow ball speed. Believe it or not your speed is greater that mine. I was in the same place as you as I would have a high pocket % but not a high strike %. If I was having spare problems on a given night I could have replaced myself with my 12 year old daughter and no one would know the difference based on scores. I have found at least for myself if I am aggresive with my arm swing I tend to carry better. I believe I was slowing my arm swing down when coming thru the ball.
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I am a stroked throwing 14 pound balls with the same ball speed as yours. When I was throwing 16, I got much better carry and did not have to be as careful about ball selection. With 14, ball selection and resulting entry angle is much more important.
With 14s I see blower sevens on what seem to be solid pocket hits. In reality, the ball is coming in to sharp and hitting slightly behind the head pin.
Ringing I ten pins on what look like solid pocket shots are actually too high shots.
Also, I leave 8 pins on solid pocket hits when I move in deep. This tells me that the ball rolled out or deflected so I adjust accordingly.
It's not luck. It's understanding what your ball is doing and then making the right decision about how to fix it.
Trust what you see and feel that you need to do to fix what you see. Make the adjustment and then adjust off of your adjustment if necessary. You have bowled a long time so I know that you understand that you bowl best when you follow your own "feel" and get comfortable.
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Proper carry is abt having the bowling ball slow down correctly as well as deflecting. If the ball is not slowing down properly, the ball can be sliding too long into the pocket, thus flat 7's or 10 pins...if the ball releases too strongly off the end of the pattern , the bowling ball can enter the pocket at too sharp an angle thus causing ring 7's or 10's. The type of lane surface can dictate this also.
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I think Rico nailed it. Even with a slower ball speed, don't be afraid to use a ball with more surface. The ball needs to stop hooking and start rolling as it enters the pocket. If the ball is still hooking as it enters the pocket, the ball is still sliding and not rolling
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I have the same originally described problem at times. Boy have I learned a lot by reading the replies — and Thanks to all.
But I might add this: I have two balls that are very much alike, both from different mfgs. They're same type, weight, etc., etc., etc. Only differences are core and coverstock material and small Rg/Diff numbers. If I happen to have both balls with me and run into this trouble, there are times that one will definitely carry better than the other. There are other times they'll react the same, though. It may all in my head, but I'll switch balls and magic seems to happen.
The only other thing I would say is Don't get discouraged; hang in there!