We charge 45 for an outside drill, 5.50 apiece for inserts, 14 for a thumb slug, 18 apiece for the Turbo Switch Grip system, and 20 apiece for the IT.  Again, considering there are some people I've spent several hours a week with over the last couple months, to us it doesn't sound like much, but the customer feels like they're getting bent over . . I hate telling people the price because I know that 95% of the time the reaction isn't going to be pleasant.  Now if the business were to close, all the sudden there would be a problem, I already get enough complaints that I don't work during the summer. 

Quote from: itsallaboutme on December 06, 2013, 01:45:49 PM

$60 with inserts is not enough if you are dealing with a person face to face.  Charging that little is just creating a slow death for your business.

35 is too low but your 80 bucks is a little high

I was curious so I have taken the time to read all of the post to this thread.
First, I have a shop set up in my basement. I did this because the shop in our small city takes weeks to drill balls and the shops I went to about 50 miles away would not take the time to measure my PAP or otherwise lay out balls based in my bowling style. Still, they charge premium prices--225-250 out the door for high performance balls; 65-85 for drilling with grips and slug.

Knowing the cost of equipment and the time that it takes to properly lay out and drill a ball, 65-75 dollars for a layout with grips and slug is reasonable, figuring in the cost of equipment and the labor cost involved.

I have family and friends that ask me to drill for them all of the time. I generally will not do it because I know that it takes at least 30 to 45 minutes and it would  be cheaper for me to split the cost with them paying the proshop than for me to do the work for them. I will help them select balls and help them with layouts, but from a time standpoint, the proshop's charge for drilling is pretty reasonable.

Ultimately, I think that a proshop should give the consumer what he wants and is able and willing to pay for. If you think that what they ask for is not going to serve the need that they are attempting to serve, tell them and give them other possible options. In the end, do what they ask with a smile. If you prove to be right and were not assinine in telling them, they will learn to trust you and you may make a customer for life. Plus they will tell their friends about you.

Quote from: ccrider on December 07, 2013, 10:08:15 PM

Still, they charge premium prices--225-250 out the door for high performance balls;

seriously how can they justify this when you could just go online and get it for 75 bucks cheaper?

matter of fact just saw this the other week at my local house...a team mate of mine paid $150 for a freak n frantic...it's a $100 anywhere online and i could have got it off my guy for $85...

utter insanity...

It might be funny for most to undercut brick and mortar proshops by buying online then shopping for the cheapest labor but this is my livelihood, my life, my paycheck. Everyone wants balls for extremely cheap and undercut the labor that goes into it. You want the quality of Mo Pinel with the price of basement drilling bob. 

Well, lets play with your check. Let your boss take 20% off your check with no means of making that money up and see how quick you are to preach the same gospel. Online shops can sell balls at slightly above cost because the sell 100 of them in a week. the avg hp balls cost is around 120 and online shops can sell them for 150, whereas, b-n-m sells it for 220 out of the door. $30 profit x 100 balls equates into a decent profit for ball selling.

Ok, now, do the same for b-n-m. except they may sell 15-25 balls in a week if it's a high volume shop + the cost of equipment, rent, employees, restock, and that profit gets eaten up rather quickly.
 I just find it rather sickening that this is the way the game has gone.  I remember in the mid 90's when balls were even more expensive than they are now and there were no online shops. People paid 220 or more for just the hp ball no drilling.

Oh well, I guess eventually all brick and mortar shops will go by the waste side and we will entrust some random fool behind a press that thinks 3 holes in a ball makes you a good driller. I have random K-Mart flashbacks thoughts when it comes to that. I don't know about you but I like knowing that my driller has experience and can give me a warranty on my drilled equipment. I also like being fitted by someone who knows more than me and can give advice rather than me telling them what their job is.

Before, I went into the business. I bought balls almost exclusively through the proshop the only time I bought online is if it were something that my home shop never exclusively carried and I still paid the price of drilling.

I know that going to a knowledgeable shop can lead to long journeys but I live in Richmond, Va. and Mo Pinel frequents Mullan's Pro Shop which is also in Richmond. Mo has had customers from as far as Memphis, TN and Atlanta, Ga frequent to be fitted, drilled a few balls, got a lesson and went off on their way.

The Moral of that story as told to me by Mo Pinel, Parker Bohn III, Kim Terrell, and many other pro's and great amateurs, " You can't beat a bad fit or reaction, it doesn't take much time to get all the info needed to properly fit and layout a ball for anyone. And just because you think you do, doesn't mean you do. Don't think, KNOW!"

Quote from: suhoney24 on December 07, 2013, 11:04:10 PM

Quote from: ccrider on December 07, 2013, 10:08:15 PM

Still, they charge premium prices--225-250 out the door for high performance balls;

seriously how can they justify this when you could just go online and get it for 75 bucks cheaper?

matter of fact just saw this the other week at my local house...a team mate of mine paid $150 for a freak n frantic...it's a $100 anywhere online and i could have got it off my guy for $85...

utter insanity...

A new release hp ball will cost your local shop $125-135 plus shipping if not ordered in a large shipment to get free shipping.  So lets say $138 for example. Then add drilling of $40, plus $15 for inserts, $15 thumb slug and you are at $208 plus tax at say 9% = $226.97 out the door. That is with zero markup on the ball. What is unfair about that?

nothing when you put it like that...i thought you were talking about charging 200 just for a ball

Thank you Kid. Those are the major markers people don't understand.  

suhoney, I'm sure your boss can find somebody to do your job for a hell of a lot cheaper too.  I didn't want to disclose our wholesale prices, but kid at least got you in the ballpark.  I don't know why people don't believe us when we say how expensive this stuff is.  If people whine and complain non stop about the prices, don't you think we'd lower them if we could?  We would sell more if it was cheaper right?  It's this kind of simple logic that could prevent a lot of issues, but people either aren't smart enough to figure it out, or would rather have something to cry about.  We sell SST8s for $150.  My employee discount makes them $155.  Yes, no typo, $155.  Because we sell them for $150, that's what I get them for, but I don't know what planet everybody else is living on thinking we're gouging people. 

If you want to go online and get it, go for it.  You know what pin length to select?  Does your website even offer a choice?  How about top weight?  Or do you just order a ball, then try to take your 1 inch pin into a shop with the cg kicked an inch or more right of the pin-mb line and expect them to give you the layout you want?  I had a guy bring me a ball the other day with a 1 inch pin, told me what layout he wanted, and when I laid it out, the fingers were UNDER the CG.  Told him I couldn't give him that layout, and he didn't understand why.  Naturally I was the idiot because he didn't understand. 

But I'll tell you what, you can probably get a good set up for your house with a press, spinner, and tools for 4000ish bucks.  There are youtube videos to teach you how to put 3 holes in a ball, you can take care of it all yourself.  And just think, at your "fair" price of 40 bucks to drill a ball, you'll BREAK EVEN in only 100 balls.  Double it to the insanely unfair price of 80, and you'll break even in 50 balls.  Heck, get some friends to chip in, you could drill balls for all of them too.  Only 3 holes, right?  As soon as you or one of them takes a ball to the Open Championships and has to have a crater put in a ball because you didn't drill it legally, what then?  You do know what's required to drill a ball legally, right?  What happens when you get going too fast with a dull bit, you hit the core and it diverts the bit or locks it up in the chuck?  How about if you get a slug halfway into the ball and it gets stuck?  Or when a buddies bridge cracks because you used too much glue?  You do know that glue expands and contracts at a different rate than the ball does and that too much glue can cause the bridge to crack, right?  Don't forget to reset the pitches to 0 before shaving the slug down . . that's not a good day.  Just a few basic examples.

Gizmo, I could not help but laugh when I read your post. I have been drilling for about three years and early on, made most of the mistakes you noted.  Forgot to set the pitches back to 0 more than once.

I think that proshop's have to adjust to the fact that balls can be purchased online and get competitive with ball pricing. You are dead wrong if you believe that top weight and pin length request are not honored on online purchases.

Sell the ball reasonably and charge a fair price for your services.

I do not think that you can set up a decent home shop for close to 4 k.  A haus machine and two ball rejuvenator cost more than that and you still have to purchase a press and bits. Then tools and supplies.  After that, you have to factor in the time that it takes to learn at least the basics and to keep up with new developments. Its not easy but anyone with reasonable intelligence can learn to measure a person and lay out a ball.

I gladly paid 65 bucks to have balls drilled. Knowing what is involved, I believe 65-85 is a fair price for drilling with grips and slug. After all, they cost less than 10 bucks.
Some of the shops charge less for their regulars and I think that is just good business, especially since they should have accurate bowing specs for repeat customers. Also, I do not think that the charge for drilling should be increased because the ball was purchased online.  The work involved is the same.

A home setup can be done for much cheaper if you have a little patience. My brother worked in a proshop for years and decided to go the home route just for us. Internet prices were such through places like Rizzos and ect that it was worth it. Not to mention ebay.

Off ebay we got a Ruddell x,y axis jig with a full set of used bits for $225 shipped. Later added a set of pitch gauges for cheap off of ebay along with a quarter scale.

Bought a bench top drill press from lowes for $200. added a used ball spinner for $150.(ball spinner came first) Used a dremel tool for our sander and we had everything needed.

A few years later while watching ebay got another deal for another jig, 2 sets of bits, hernery troemner scale, and a plug cutting router for $450 shipped. Kept only the scale and sold everything else for $575. We got paid to keep the scale. After 10 years or so the drill finally dies and we replaced it with a nice standup drill from lowes for $250. A full setup for drilling under $1000.

As far as proshop prices go it doesn't really matter if the public knows. They will still ask you to take less for it. I just bought me another Brunswick Ringer Platinum off ebay last week for $72 shipped. That is below my cost before shipping through a distributor.