Author Topic: What has bowling come to? (Read 6551 times)

ToiletLogCore · « **on:** January 17, 2012, 01:06:58 AM »

Was just browsing around some other forums and thought I'd share this topic with everyone.

Enjoy this fine food for thought on this lovely Tuesday morning:

http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4791

You've just been handed a little TLC

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 31, 2012, 05:31:26 PM »

If your good/great the condition doesn't matter. You bowl on a parking lot for money if the opportunity is put in front of you. That is part of being a competitor in anything. I know my limitations and what I'm good at and what I'm great at. A game, B game, ect I don't put in the practice to make my weaker abilities stronger because I know I'm not able to bowl as much as I would like. Still when it comes time to bowl on whatever, when ever, where ever it is go time.

I will be tournament ready with practice ahead of time. No doubts about it. If you don't have the same mentality then plastic or anything else won't matter when the shot burns up and you have to adjust. If you want to be one of the better bowlers you better spend less time b!tching and more time practicing.

"1 of 1."

RayRay310 · « **Reply #32 on:** January 31, 2012, 08:07:38 PM »

So I should get mad at everyone with a lower rev rate, and the lane conditions, because I can't make a decent shot? Even if I do make a decent shot, but don't score well, its because of the lane I'm bowling on, and because everyone is not cranking it like me??

Has anyone heard of a bad day??..maybe a slump??

Post like his aren't helping grow the sport at all..

FWIW: The author of the OP on bowlingchat.net, don't know him personally, but being heavily associated with Mo Pinel I can say he's a better bowler than me. Not attacking his bowling game at all. Commenting on the OP, that's all..

Rileybowler · « **Reply #33 on:** January 31, 2012, 08:23:15 PM »

Plus 1 Great post

Jorge300 wrote on 1/18/2012 11:32 AM:
My take on this guy is that he needs a slap upside his head!

Seriously, I consider myself a good bowler, I averaged about 230-235 on most house shots over the last 5-10 years. I would never, ever have the attitude that this megamav does. I have been beaten by lots of bowlers who were probably, overall, not as good as me. Was I mad at them, or the lanes, no. I was mad, but at myself. I should be good enough to find the right line, the right release, and or the right equipment in order to compete and beat them. I used to bowl in a second shift scratch league in Texas. One year the center decided to use a little less oil, or changed something so we had a very dry condition most nights. I will admit, I did mention to the manager (who also bowled in the league) that we could use a little more oil, but I didn't "bitch" at him about it. What I did is go into my garage and pull out my old urethane Sumo, and I threw that. In fact one night I was bowling another very good bowler, on Columbia amatuer staff at the time and a PBA regional regular, and we went at it: my Sumo vs. his White Dot, lol.

Bottomline there are always answers to scoring better...this Megamav guy can do it, but he would rather complain because the shot isn't set up to HIS liking anymore. It may mean a change to his game, or it even may mean looking back through his old equipment to find a different ball that will match up better. The difference between Megamav and myself is, I know I suck. I know my 230+ average is due to easy THS conditions. And I am proving it this year bowling in my PBAX league here. My 230+ is down to a 200+, which is near the top of our league even with some very good bowlers in it.

Jorge300

Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

strikeking · « **Reply #34 on:** January 31, 2012, 09:14:47 PM »

Just another case of a bowler thinking he is good or great because he can buy a ball that hooks a ton right out of the box. He doesn't have to hit specific board or mark, just heave it some where in the general area and watch the pins fly. I'll bet the guy that beat him is much more accurate than he is and has better control of what he's trying to do with the ball.

Strikeking

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #35 on:** February 01, 2012, 01:25:29 AM »

Steven wrote on 31.01.2012 5:25 PM:
One common characteristic of most good bowlers is that they never blame the condition for their Ills. The attitude is that whatever is out there, there is a way to be successful -- you just have to find it. And if you don't, it's your own fault. Nobody else is to blame.

+1 - good statement an IMHO totally correct.

DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

completebowler · « **Reply #36 on:** February 01, 2012, 07:15:58 AM »

Okay, here is a question? If you ban THS and everything plays much flatter, doesn't that give the advantage to the crankers? Would the people aligned with this movement then start crying that those guys have an advantage and the more accurate bowlers are getting screwed?

As Steven said, no matter what you're on the better bowlers find a way to rise to the top. Oil it 60' I will find a way to score. Strip it completely...again, I will find a way to score. The only thing you will do in either one of those scenarios is drive the average bowler down the road.

As someone who loves the game, runs a shop, and helps the center come up with ideas to bring in new business I have come to realize one thing. It isn't the state of the game that is causing bowler decline. It is the change in society and the fact that there are so, so many other options for our recreational dollars.

Bowling has to compete with PS3, flatscreens, social media, and the internet on top of all the traditional options for kids these days. Bowling was driven by plant workers in manufacturing in it's heyday...America has changed in that respect. Bowling used to be a family thing. But today's economy forces most houses to have dual incomes...so, bye, bye to the daytime women's leagues that used to be common.

But the kicker to all of it is this. The poster is a mod on a website dedicated to advancing bowling ball technology. Why??? To make the game easier. Isn't it kind of ridiculous to take this stance against proprietors but then advance another aspect of the game designed to make it easier to score?

ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI

All Star Bowling & Trophy

trash heap · « **Reply #37 on:** February 01, 2012, 07:59:53 AM »

The THS is not the source of the problem, but it does cause issues on the competition side of bowling. Let's face it most bowlers that know they are on a THS will not venture outside their home center.

Statements you hear: "Why should I go to the State or Local Association Tournament if I know I am not going have a chance? It's a waste of my money."

And it is so true. The inflation of scores at home on a THS, keeps the bowlers at home. We have seen it happen over the years. Guys used to seeing their ball hook and scoring well at home, go to a tournament expecting the same thing. They throw their ball and it goes straight. They have nothing of an arsenal to combat this condition. They are bowling on a pattern with more oil and is challenging. They are lost. They struggle to adjust. What started out as a thought of doing well, turns into a disaster and a bad experience. High percentage never return.

In my opinion what should happen to the THS is it needs to change over time in regards to sanction bowling. No need to go crazy and lay down the hardest pattern on earth. But things need to adjust gradually. Give bowlers time to adapt and change.

As far as youth bowling. THS should be banned there. Put the kids on challenging patterns. If anything they should use patterns used at the college levels.

Reverendwaz · « **Reply #38 on:** February 01, 2012, 09:35:33 AM »

I replied to this post on the forum over there. more or less a14 year old girl put this guy in his place. It's people like him who will be the end of the leauge bowler. Who's going to want to play a guy like this thats going to brake down in cry when he can't perform. I lost a little respect for mo and that forum when my comment was deleted and topic was locked right after.

NoseofRI · « **Reply #39 on:** February 01, 2012, 10:12:41 AM »

Lmao, knowing this makes this whole situation that much funnier. I can certainly appreciate you letting us all in on this info Reverend.

To touch on what others have said on the reasoning of the decline in bowling... The main reason is clearly the economy and people's mindset towards bowling these days. Back when my grandparents bowled leagues, hell even when I was still in juniors, it actually meant something to win a league. Which meant that people that either just began bowling or came out of juniors would actually go and practice to get better and help their teams out.

Then the technology came along....

Here's the kicker though, and listen carefully all, TECHNOLOGY ITSELF WAS/IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Technology is a good thing, and is good for bowling, but the problem is that the education regarding how the game was changing didn't nearly keep up with the rate the technology was changing.

So to all those they say, "we should go back to plastic blah blah blah," shut up, this is NOT the answer. Knowledge about the game is the answer. Guys averaging 200 yet having no idea why one ball hooks more than the other or why they should change balls or just move their feet. And guess what this is NOT their fault, like some (i.e. MegaMav) insist it is.

The knowledge needs to be brought back to the game in order for the sport to thrive.

Reverendwaz wrote on 2/1/2012 10:35 AM:I replied to this post on the forum over there. more or less a14 year old girl put this guy in his place. It's people like him who will be the end of the leauge bowler. Who's going to want to play a guy like this thats going to brake down in cry when he can't perform. I lost a little respect for mo and that forum when my comment was deleted and topic was locked right after.

trash heap · « **Reply #40 on:** February 01, 2012, 11:05:57 AM »

You have a very good point. There is no question that there are many that do not know a thing and education would help.

But really, let's take the plastic argument. To play TEN PIN BOWLING you do NOT need a reactive or urethane ball. It is NOT required. A plastic ball comes in various weights and can be polished and sanded. It is the same size ball and can be thrown by the bowler the same as a reactive and urethane.

These high end bowling balls have been produced for one purpose only .... HIGHER STRIKE PERCENTAGE! And you cannot argue that. They have done nothing else for the sport. They are not durable, they are designed to be condition specific (You need more than one ball to compete in a tournament - most serious tournament bowlers have at least a 10 ball arsenal).

Who does this benefit, the bowler? Really? You need this technology to play the game?

Hey I will be the first to admit. I buy new equipment. I enjoy watching the ball crush the pocket when I am throwing good. Who doesn't? That's why you bought a reactive ball in the first place. You would be stupid not to hop on the train.

Technology is here to stay! Is it necessary for this great game? In my opinion. NO. It would have been okay to be left in the dark ages of plastic. The Sport would have moved on just fine. Membership would still be in decline, if there would be anything different, the sport would definitely be affordable.

NoseofRI wrote on 2/1/2012 11:12 AM:
Here's the kicker though, and listen carefully all, TECHNOLOGY ITSELF WAS/IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Technology is a good thing, and is good for bowling, but the problem is that the education regarding how the game was changing didn't nearly keep up with the rate the technology was changing.

So to all those they say, "we should go back to plastic blah blah blah," shut up, this is NOT the answer. Knowledge about the game is the answer. Guys averaging 200 yet having no idea why one ball hooks more than the other or why they should change balls or just move their feet. And guess what this is NOT their fault, like some (i.e. MegaMav) insist it is.

The knowledge needs to be brought back to the game in order for the sport to thrive.

NoseofRI · « **Reply #41 on:** February 01, 2012, 12:21:27 PM »

Oh I absolutely agree that bowling balls changed the game because of better carry.

However, friction is needed to score in bowling, so the going back to plastic is just a ridiculous suggestion. The fact is there's just as much technology in lane machines and oil patterns as there is in bowling balls. That being said, I honestly don't think "house shots" should go away. There is a time and place for them (i.e. The Wed night, bowling with the guys to get out of the house, league). The problem is, that there is no education about what the shot, the bowling balls, the side walls, the gutters, etc... aid in bowling, therefore there are a lot of people that think these averages are an accurate assessment of "how go I am." Then, there's the opposite (i.e. MegaMav) who is presented with the knowledge, sees it as how he wants to see it, then blames everything else on why he got beat instead of the fact that maybe the underlying physical talent isn't there, and he's worried more about surface preperation, layout, ball dynamics, and how the pattern "should" play, rather than seeing what the lane gives him and making good shots.

The bowling ball technology isn't going anywhere, so maybe the bowling industry should use the technology we have in other aspects of the game in order to offset and re-"make the game tougher."

trash heap wrote on 2/1/2012 12:05 PM:
You have a very good point. There is no question that there are many that do not know a thing and education would help.

But really, let's take the plastic argument. To play TEN PIN BOWLING you do NOT need a reactive or urethane ball. It is NOT required. A plastic ball comes in various weights and can be polished and sanded. It is the same size ball and can be thrown by the bowler the same as a reactive and urethane.

These high end bowling balls have been produced for one purpose only .... HIGHER STRIKE PERCENTAGE! And you cannot argue that. They have done nothing else for the sport. They are not durable, they are designed to be condition specific (You need more than one ball to compete in a tournament - most serious tournament bowlers have at least a 10 ball arsenal).

Who does this benefit, the bowler? Really? You need this technology to play the game?

Hey I will be the first to admit. I buy new equipment. I enjoy watching the ball crush the pocket when I am throwing good. Who doesn't? That's why you bought a reactive ball in the first place. You would be stupid not to hop on the train.

Technology is here to stay! Is it necessary for this great game? In my opinion. NO. It would have been okay to be left in the dark ages of plastic. The Sport would have moved on just fine. Membership would still be in decline, if there would be anything different, the sport would definitely be affordable.

trash heap · « **Reply #42 on:** February 03, 2012, 03:11:23 PM »

Recall back to the PBA Plastic Ball Tournament. They were able to get those plastic balls to turn and it wasn't just the high rev players getting them to hook either. Its a very short oil pattern.

As far as the lane machine. Would we need it? Nope. The High Tech Lane Machine was created to handle the High Tech Ball (The ball came first.).

My whole point to this argument is the large amount money going into this sport uncessarily, just to increase strike percentage. The bad part about is, this technology is done with "smoke and mirrors".

- A bowler can't see the oil pattern that has been laid down to give the bowler area

- A bowler can't see that the ball is going to hook and grab the lane more.

- A bowler can't see that pins have been altered for better action

- A bowler can't see that kickbacks have been improved,

- A bowler can't see that WAHSAM has been installed on lanes.

All a bowler can see is that he/she is getting more strikes. They feel good about themselves, they have that false sense of being better. They don't work for it, they don't practice, inside they naturally feel they are gifted in this sport. When they shoot a good score or series, its all about their ability. They all forget that a lot of research and money helped them to shoot a score that without that technology they wouldn't even come close to shooting an honor score.

That's the HARD TRUTH of this sport.

NoseofRI wrote on 2/1/2012 1:21 PM:
However, friction is needed to score in bowling, so the going back to plastic is just a ridiculous suggestion. The fact is there's just as much technology in lane machines and oil patterns as there is in bowling balls.

Edited by trash heap on 2/3/2012 at 4:13 PM

NoseofRI · « **Reply #43 on:** February 03, 2012, 03:43:26 PM »

Beautifully said. But this is where the education of how the game/sport has changed would come into play.

But I still disagree in regards to going back to just plastic. Because one could argue that typewriters were never necessary for writing, nor was the advancement to computers. Heck, we can all write with pen and paper, why would we need a machine that makes this easier? Should we go back to walking and riding a horse everywhere because it's not necessary to have a car and spend money on gas?

Not to mention that your "go back to plastic" suggestion is still a major technological advancement over rubber, and rubber was an advancement over wood bowling balls. And in that case, we should also go back to putting only our thumb and 1 finger in the ball.

So you see, without technology we never would have gotten TO plastic in the first place.

trash heap wrote on 2/3/2012 4:11 PM:
All a bowler can see is that he/she is getting more strikes. They feel good about themselves, they have that false sense of being better. They don't work for it, they don't practice, inside they naturally feel they are gifted in this sport. When they shoot a good score or series, its all about their ability. They all forget that a lot of research and money helped them to shoot a score that without that technology they wouldn't even come close to shooting an honor score.

That's the HARD TRUTH of this sport.

NoseofRI wrote on 2/1/2012 1:21 PM:

However, friction is needed to score in bowling, so the going back to plastic is just a ridiculous suggestion. The fact is there's just as much technology in lane machines and oil patterns as there is in bowling balls.

Edited by trash heap on 2/3/2012 at 4:13 PM

se7en · « **Reply #44 on:** February 03, 2012, 05:16:10 PM »

If he's so good, why can't he just adjust to the terrible lines the bad bowlers are playing?

BeerLeague · « **Reply #45 on:** February 06, 2012, 06:18:57 AM »

I think the sport in general has become pathetic. There is too much emphasis on equipment and not enough on shotmaking. This ball / that ball / this pattern / that pattern .this surface / that surface / this layout / that layout . .blah blah blah.. $200 for ball that lasts 1/2 a season before it craps out .... its a sorry sport. It gives me a headache !

If you want "fair" go back to short oil, urethane equipment, and put a premium on talent, not the contents of your 6 ball roller you drag to the casual beer league. SAD SAD SAD !!

Take up a real game if you want to get serious ... GOLF !!

Author Topic: What has bowling come to? (Read 6551 times)

ToiletLogCore

What has bowling come to?

kidlost2000

Re: What has bowling come to?

RayRay310

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Rileybowler

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strikeking

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dizzyfugu

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completebowler

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trash heap

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Reverendwaz

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NoseofRI

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trash heap

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NoseofRI

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trash heap

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NoseofRI

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se7en

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BeerLeague

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