Author Topic: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues (Read 5631 times)

Reality Check · « **on:** July 25, 2007, 10:44:15 PM »

Just an interesting little query for everyone,

In the handicap trios league I bowl in, one of the bowlers was having a tough night scoring wise, and started double handed palming the ball. He still did not score much, and scored slightly worse in one game. The accusations came up that night that this was no different to sandbagging, that he should have a seperate average for double handed palming the ball (much like if you were right handed and decided to bowl left handed I believe) and that it was not acceptable to change to this style of bowling mid game, amongst other things.

I just wondered what everyones take on this would be? Should someone bowling double handed have a seperate average? Should they declare before they bowl how they are going to bowl? COuld a sandbagging charge be levelled at the bowler? Just interested to see what opinions are out there .
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Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.

Reality Check · « **Reply #16 on:** July 26, 2007, 10:56:43 AM »

Chitown,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. I think that the reason why it caused a great deal of debate in this league (and apparently this topic is coming up in quite a few handicap leagues apparently) is that there are a lot of more 'traditional' bowlers, who are looking at this as against tradition. I argued with the league secretary on the night that I saw this as no different to someone struggling and choosing to throw back up in an attempt to find a better ine (although a friend of mine who is a leaguesecretary told me if I tried to throw back up in a handicap league he would cite me for sandbagging, but thats a different story!)

Zanatos,

Its really a general topic for discussion, and the sandbagging aspect is more the focus. If I have a 200 average one handed, and bowl the first 10 weeks of the season 2 handed and only average 165, and then decide in certain matches to bowl normally and hit my average, would that be viewed as sandbagging, or would I just be viewed as adapting to the lanes?

Just found this as well on another website -
http://www.bowl.com/sportbowling/articleView.aspx?i=13035&f=12
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Reality Is.......Working out how to carry the 10, only to start leaving the 7.

Powermachine- · « **Reply #17 on:** July 26, 2007, 11:00:57 AM »

usbc rule if u average u must have bowled with either 1 hand or the other or it your score is considered void unless u establish a new average with the other hand
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yes i sandbag im left handed.
Typical house bowler

shelley · « **Reply #18 on:** July 26, 2007, 11:05:43 AM »

quote:
If I have a 200 average one handed, and bowl the first 10 weeks of the season 2 handed and only average 165, and then decide in certain matches to bowl normally and hit my average, would that be viewed as sandbagging, or would I just be viewed as adapting to the lanes?

That's why the rules are the way they are, it's why you establish separate left- and right-handed averages and why you must declare which hand you will use at the beginning of the season or tournament.

In a scratch situation, I don't care how you throw the ball. But when your average is so dependent on how you throw the ball and that average has meaning to the rest of the competitors, you better dance with what brung you, so to speak.

If the guy was goofing off, I'd hit him with (I believe) rule 17 (might be 117), which states that deliberately throwing off so as to gain an advantage in handicapped (or division'd) competition is illegal. If he was trying something in the hopes that something, anything would score, that's different.

The problem with sandbagging and distinguishing it from simple lousy bowling is intent, and you can't generally know what he's thinking if it's a one-night thing.

SH

Kinalyx · « **Reply #19 on:** July 26, 2007, 12:04:44 PM »

To me, sandbagging is what a guy i know HAD to do last year to keep from LOSING pins every game.

He was bowling in a fairly easy house, that has a GREAT shot on the left side. He would shoot 250 - 250 - 175 almost every week. They had a negative handicap for anyone averaging over 220 or so. Meaning if he kept a 240 average, he lost around 18 sticks every single game.

Im not condoning it, because i would love to have a 240 average & i would never sandbag. On the other hand, technically he was trying to not penalize his team by costing them sticks every game.

Shawn

Kinalyx · « **Reply #20 on:** July 26, 2007, 12:07:09 PM »

Also, as for a rule about changing styles, 1 handed vs 2. There is no way to enforce such a rule. Most 2 handed bowlers i know shoot 10 pins with 1 hand. This would mean a lot of 2 handers would have to start sparing 2handed also.

Shawn

Powermachine- · « **Reply #21 on:** July 26, 2007, 12:09:32 PM »

lol i wish i could avg 240 taking negative pins for team is stupid in my opinion even if it handicapped i see people avg 165 in mens league and shoot 800 series? LOL
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yes i sandbag im left handed.
Typical house bowler

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 26, 2007, 12:57:01 PM »

Okay about the Sandbagging but have you really watched a two handed bowler release the ball.. The ball is release with the dominate hand and is really carried with the other. The using both hands and shoulder to get the ball down the lane..

This is common sense picture it.. Walking to the lane and fingers or no fingers in the ball.. The ball has to be guided down the lane and the other arm is used for balance and power... Common guys...

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 26, 2007, 01:01:25 PM »

Okay is this legal - I am a 2 finger bowler and we have allot of revs on the ball and some times we have trouble getting the ball down the lane.. Is it legal to flip the ball over and ball with it that way.. Think about it.. It gives the ball less reaction..

shelley · « **Reply #24 on:** July 26, 2007, 02:10:13 PM »

quote:
Okay is this legal - I am a 2 finger bowler and we have allot of revs on the ball and some times we have trouble getting the ball down the lane.. Is it legal to flip the ball over and ball with it that way.. Think about it.. It gives the ball less reaction..

If the ball has a weight hole already, then no, as you would not be able to cover the "thumb hole" like you would when you throw it normally. Turning it around, you'd have essentially two weight holes which is illegal.

Also, the ball would still have to be statically legal with the different center of grip. Probably that would not be a problem, but it's possible.

Finally, the finger holes are likely to be the wrong size. I know I can barely get my middle finger in the ring finger hole; turning the ball around would mean the wrong size finger holes and wrong pitches.

SH

shelley · « **Reply #25 on:** July 26, 2007, 02:11:44 PM »

quote:
To me, sandbagging is what a guy i know HAD to do last year to keep from LOSING pins every game....
Meaning if he kept a 240 average, he lost around 18 sticks every single game.

Mathematically, that's no different than putting the base used to figure handicap above 240. Base it off of 220 and the 240-average bowler has a 20-30 pin advantage over everyone else. Base it off of 240 and he doesn't. Most 240 bowlers don't understand that, though; they only see negative pins and can't understand what handicap is there for.

SH

Oskuposer · « **Reply #26 on:** July 26, 2007, 02:27:35 PM »

To end all bickering drill a ball label so there is no weight hole. So what if some one throws a shot using the right hand and then decides the ball doesnt hook he can no thumb it and bowl 2handed as long as his left hand does not go in the ball. Any one who has gone to kegel camp or bowled with me at main event at junior gold knows. I can make any ball do anything. Its all about versitility.
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I am the Righty Rick Larence minus wrist guard.(crutch)
Good bowlers use the Big B
Kiall Hill
"Captain Fidget"
"Thanks Randy"
"Yea but the Brunswick ones get all ten down"

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #27 on:** July 26, 2007, 03:57:29 PM »

This was a good topic

MaidenheadBandit · « **Reply #28 on:** July 27, 2007, 03:10:52 AM »

TTT

Reality Check,
I got your PM
Cheers
MB

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Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it.....

Beer for the man, white wine fruit based drink for the lady.
Lane 1 for the man, storm fruit smelling ball for the lady.....
(\ /)
( . .)
c(')(')

Author Topic: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues (Read 5631 times)

Reality Check

2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues

Reality Check

Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues

Powermachine-

Re: 2 Handed Bowling & Handicap Leagues

shelley

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Kinalyx

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Kinalyx

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Powermachine-

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Zanatos1914

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Zanatos1914

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shelley

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shelley

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Oskuposer

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Zanatos1914

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MaidenheadBandit

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