Author Topic: Revs,matter of strength or timing? (Read 2286 times)

supernoodle · « **on:** October 06, 2008, 09:41:33 AM »

I am at best a low end tweener but most would say i'm a stroker. I am short and slim-ish and I have a lot of trouble/weakness with my wrists,so much so that I can't bowl unless I have a solid wrist brace on (Currently using a Z-Loc 2).

Now I have seen both short,tall,fat and thin bowlers able to get a decent amount of revs,however none of them have ever worn a brace. Now a few years earlier I was having this discussion with the Pro shop owner and he said that getting a decent amount of revs/good side rotation has nothing to do with strength but everything to do with timing.

I myself think that strength (Especially in the forearms and wrists) is the key. What do you think is more important and why?
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I would have got away with it if it was not for those pesky kids (Behind my lane) and those blasted 10 pins.

Zack Pelton300 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 07, 2008, 01:20:22 PM »

Well I think that proshop operator was wrong about not needing timing. It will help generate more revs. Its all about your leverage at the line, ur axis rotation, and hand position.
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Zack Pelton
Olathe, Kansas
Ebonite Bowl 2 Win
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Kid Jete · « **Reply #17 on:** October 07, 2008, 01:30:25 PM »

90% timing and 10% strength in my opinion. Yeah you can muscle the hell out of a ball and achieve a decent rev rate but it's the guys that have a smooth timed delivery that get the revs and the consistency. I'm one of those "toothpicks" thats LL referred to and I can turn a ball with the best of em. Of course like my golf game, I think being 6'3 helps with leverage.

mainzer · « **Reply #18 on:** October 07, 2008, 01:51:59 PM »

You need some amount of strength to get revs but I think it is more timing than anything else
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MainzerPower

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #19 on:** October 07, 2008, 03:01:49 PM »

Timing is IMHO the basis. You need to get the thumb out of the ball in time, before it passes your ankle, and then you can do a lot of things with wrist, finger and the whole arm to put extra revs on a ball - but good timing ensures that these revs are effective, and doing too much IMHO lowers the shot's controllability to a point where the effort becomes pointless.
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icewall · « **Reply #20 on:** October 07, 2008, 03:59:18 PM »

IMHO it all has to do with a multitude of things all coming together.

I think the most important things are timing, relaxed swing (especially in the downswing), and lastly wrist.

now im not a high rev player but i think everyone has a certain amount of natural revs that are within a range. for instance I will never cross the 400 rpm range because thats just how my body and leverage is. but it sure does help to get all the natural leverage you can get. for me ill always be in the 250 - 325 range of revs. while my friend is 325 to 400.

I would spend my time watching youtube videos of the pros approach and watch when their ball passes which steps in order to fix timing and work on a very relaxed swing... change you ball height at the beginning of your approach to change speed rather then using muscle. this helped me tremendously in not only achieving more revs but consistency as well.
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icewall · « **Reply #21 on:** October 07, 2008, 04:00:04 PM »

quote:
Timing is IMHO the basis. You need to get the thumb out of the ball in time, before it passes your ankle, and then you can do a lot of things with wrist, finger and the whole arm to put extra revs on a ball - but good timing ensures that these revs are effective, and doing too much IMHO lowers the shot's controllability to a point where the effort becomes pointless.
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GOOD POINT!... i totally agree!
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backswing_aplenty · « **Reply #22 on:** October 07, 2008, 07:13:15 PM »

I'm in the higher revolution category and after reading all the previous posts it only confirms what I've been relating to my customers a person either has a high rev rate or not. Increasing revrate is one of the hardest things to do in bowling along with willingly changing axis tilt.

Both of these (tilt and revrate) are a product of how the body is built and how one's timing is developed. I've tried many, many times to explain how I can get up to 550, I've tried to explain how to adjust timing, slowing down the feet, getting the slightly bent elbow to straighten out at the bottom of the swing, cupping to uncupping the wrist at the bottom of the swing...

I believe it all comes down to how your body is built and how you learned how to hook the ball when you first started bowling. Some bowlers don't physically have the strength to have higher revs, most throw the ball too hard, some are stuck with the "textbook" form of the 50's and 60's with a straight elbow and square to the line, I could go on and on.

With all that said, I usually tell my customers not to worry about their revrate and worry about matching up their speed to their current revrate. This is much more effective in producing a higher carry percentage. With higher revolutions comes the need for more speed. Matching speed and revs is key to better carry and higher scores.

I often lament with other high rev bowlers on drier conditions, "why did we learn how to hook it so much?" I can only roll the ball with so much speed before I begin throwing it and losing repetition and control.

So don't worry about revrate, worry about matching up your speed and rotation to your equipment and where you like to play, that will produce better carry than more revolutions.

*backswing

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supernoodle · « **Reply #23 on:** October 07, 2008, 10:31:25 PM »

Well the consensus seems to be that timing is the key.

One thing I would like to mention is that I have for a long time had a tendency to "Grip" the ball a bit too much. In the past it caused major problems with skin regularly being blistered/coming off at the base of my thumb just before the palm. I have had numerous ball drillers but this problem has persisted which seems to suggest that its not the drilling but me.

It has been put to me that the ball is too heavy,however if I bowl with a 14lb ball I tend to loft it more than usual and it hits like a marshmallow. My upper arms can easily manage a 16lb ball its just the wrists/forearms that have problems,hence the wrist brace so I can bowl with a 15lb ball.

As I said I tend to have the most consistency if I come up the back of the ball more but there are times when I need a few more revs and more axis tilt. I don't wish or want to be like Robert Smith,however I would like to have at least 3 releases ranging from Walter Ray to someone like Parker Bohn.

Consistency is the one thing that I really want. A friend of mine is not the most technically gifted bowler but the one thing he has is a v.consistent release which means once he gets lined up he is deadly. Contrast that with me who has no idea from week to week how I am going to release the ball.

Its funny as I bowl with guys who all average around 50 pins or more less than me per game. They are all straight down the middle bowlers for the most part and I get to the bowl early to make sure I get the first shot of practice play and they wonder why. Its so I can see how my ball is reacting in relation to the pins as I find it hard with no pins and also need to see what kind of carry I an going to get from week to week.

I should not need that,I should be confident of what my ball is/isn't going to do on a range of conditions,instead of hoping that this week my release is going to be ok.

Hopefully if/when (touch wood) I get back to bowling,I will have to try some o the things mentioned as the longer I leave it the harder it is going to become.
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I would have got away with it if it was not for those pesky kids (Behind my lane) and those blasted 10 pins.

pin-chaser · « **Reply #24 on:** October 10, 2008, 10:44:20 PM »

What has been left out of the responses is fit of the ball. If you are squeezing the ball then you loose rev rate. So proper fit makes it easier to develop and loose armswing, which in turn aides in developing proper and consistant timing. But LOL at the timing issue... because timing is relative to each bowler. Look at Tommy Jones and he is still at the top of his back swing just before he completes his slide. And look at Norm Duke and his ball is at his ankle when we stops sliding. And if you look back to the 80's, Marshal Holman released the ball before he stopped sliding. I would argue that all these players have or can have above average rev rates.

Personally, I would suggest that it is technique... technique that does require wrist strength and finger strength. Not super human strength... just enough to hold your wrist in a strong position without collapsing at the bottom and enough finger strength to feel the weight of the ball after your thumb exits. Beyond this is not necessary.

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alcornel · « **Reply #25 on:** October 10, 2008, 10:51:40 PM »

I would have to say timing too. Look at PDW - if he weighs more than 140 I would be shocked ( and looking at him in shorts - yes I am still blinded - I can't imagine much comes from leg strength

)
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Andy
Las Vegas, NV

Author Topic: Revs,matter of strength or timing? (Read 2286 times)

supernoodle

Revs,matter of strength or timing?

Zack Pelton300

Re: Revs,matter of strength or timing?

Kid Jete

Re: Revs,matter of strength or timing?

mainzer

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dizzyfugu

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icewall

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icewall

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backswing_aplenty

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supernoodle

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pin-chaser

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alcornel

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