I'll simply simply say we are both offering opinions based on our experiences and NOT from marketing or reps.   Nor am I referencing softer conditions where everything looks the same.  I understand that you are one of the most respected members here and have an extremely strong pedigree. Just don't make assumptions about other member's opinions and how they were formed.

Why do I think? Cause I know...it's not what a bowling ball does in oil or due to surface, it's what they do in friction.

This...from what I have seen and experienced through the last couple years going from throwing nothing but Storm, to being on staff with another company and then using gear through another manufacturers authorized pro shop, where Storm has the biggest advantage IMO is their mid-lines and lower products.

I also agree that upper end stuff you really can't tell a difference, but in the lower line stuff is where I saw the biggest difference reaction wise, the gear from other manufacturers didnt clear the fronts or give me near the look I was used to having on med and lighter tournament patterns. 

Thank you for that truly unbiased opinion....

Quote from: JustRico on April 09, 2013, 08:56:43 PM

Thank you for that truly unbiased opinion....

Thanks for throwing my opinion under the bus beacuse of what is written in my signature...This is why i try to avoid posting in these forums, everyone elses opinion is better than yours.

can you prove to me Storm is Better? do they hit 20% harder? Hook 5 extra boards? Carry more hits?

i am not arguing for the sake of arguing alot of people around here use storm/rg. I have never understood the love affair. I have not had sucess with it. I enjoy being the guy throwing something different. I enjoy being the guy putting up big numbers NOT using the same ball everyone else is.

So since you obviously don't know who Rico is . . I won't tell you, but you're missing the point here.  He's not talking about league bowlers on a house shot, the original question is why does there seem to be so many Storm staffed pros on tv all the time.  Rick Benoit, a world famous coach, maybe the best in the world, has the same opinion as Rico.  Storm also has the widest range of ball reactions in their lineup.  It's ok to be different, but when you're in a league setting, what does it matter?  You could take a rock out of the parking lot and score with it on a house shot, but your comments here had NOTHING to do with the original question or the resulting debate. 

"can you prove to me Storm is Better? do they hit 20% harder? Hook 5 extra boards? Carry more hits?"

That is a totally bent house bowler attitude.  When one person's opinion is based on blind ignorance, and someone else's opinion is based on industry knowledge and experience . . yeah, I'm gonna go with the second one.  Has nothing to do with your signature and everything to do with your attitude and lack of conceptual understanding.  Crap, now you've got me sounding like Long Duck Dong Daddy . .

It doesn't really matter who he is.  An opinion is an opinion; that's it.  Being who he is may give more weight to his opinion or mean he has better resources to form an opionion, but it's still just an opinion and not a fact.

Pros and industry insiders are subject to marketing and being influenced just as much as anyone else.

I don't have anything against Storm - I'm fairly sure one of my 300s was with one of their balls.  Simple logic says that in an industry as competitive as the bowling ball industry is right now with all the different smaller companies and mega-companies that one company is unlikely to be far superior to all of the others in every way.  I suppose it's possible, but very highly unlikely.  So the question is a fair one (though I think the OP meant it as a chest thumping post)...I guess the real question should be why do people THINK Storm is so much better?

As I have stated previously...my 'personal' opinion is based on scientific data as well as testing...I do not base on, as ALL of you have, thru marketing or otherwise preconceived connotations on what a bowling balls does or is going to do thru your eyes and your ball motion. You have a certain comfortable shape in your mind on what you wanna see...
Not a single one of you, I can guarantee, has taken 2 bowling balls that may be compared, drilled them exactly the same and thrown them the same amount of times to do a TRUE comprehensive evaluation and viewed the reactions (assuming you can understand true ball motion) unbiasedly...I'm not trying to sale anyone on one ball over another, I can personally careless...who I am is important to me and the ones I work with...which is as many as I want to...I'm not looking to be in the public eye as others do...I'm happy helping those that I do...so throw the bowling balls you choose and have a good time with the game...but understand there is an expansive difference between what a huge majority bowl on and what the pros bowl on....

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 10, 2013, 07:51:57 AM

So since you obviously don't know who Rico is . . I won't tell you, but you're missing the point here.  He's not talking about league bowlers on a house shot, the original question is why does there seem to be so many Storm staffed pros on tv all the time.  Rick Benoit, a world famous coach, maybe the best in the world, has the same opinion as Rico.  Storm also has the widest range of ball reactions in their lineup. 

Exactly, people having their opinions based on their personal experiences.  Unless there is published empirical data establishing a defined difference in reaction, then that's all we are entitled to.  But at least have some evidence to go along with your opinions.  I've been with 3 different companies.  I've drilled countless balls.  I have a strong interest in the scientific method so I evaluate my findings and incorporate others and if that means forming another conclusion or retesting, I do.

You say "Storm also has the widest range of ball reactions in their lineup."    So what exactly are you basing that on?  Number of balls?  Have you thrown every companies ball and found a reaction in Storm that other's didn't?   I'll tell you when I was a Storm/Roto staffer, there was a tremendous amount of overlap in balls.  That's because they reuse the same cover in so many balls.   Why do you need 5 different balls with XYZ cover?

Storm makes fantastic equipment.  So does everyone else.  Find the reaction you like and go practice.

I'm basing that on being a pro shop operator for the last 7 years and having a lot of experience with ALL brands of equipment, throwing balls, and hosting several different companies demo days, as well as interactions with staffers from different companies.  Every company will have overlap, but Storm has the most differences in ball roll, not hook potential.  Storm has balls that are long and strong, and also balls that are early and smooth, and that means that FOR A PRO who is contractually obligated to throw Storm/Roto, that they will be able to match up better with more conditions and those conditions in various states of transition.  Every company has identifiable reaction characteristics, hence why certain styles match up better with certain companies.  Storm seems to be able to match up with a wider range of styles than the other companies do.  And every company reuses covers . .

Remember, this is a Storm on the PBA tour discussion, not Joe Blow on a house shot discussion, and there's much more to consider and look at when it comes to professional bowling vs every week league bowling. 

Exactly, it all comes back to matching up with the product.  I'm a Storm/Roto guy, have been for a long time.  But i've also thrown pieces from nearly every other company out there and always come back to the Utah brand.  I'm also a pro shop operator and while I do push Storm stuff, I realize it's not for everyone and if a customer wants a EBI or Brunswick brand or any other brand for that matter my simple response is "honestly every company makes good stuff these days"

Now back to what the pros are using (stated before on this thread) i'd venture to say that is a guy like Chris Barnes really thought that Storm would give him the ability to win more titles (hence more money) he would jump onto that ship.  And on the other hand the free agent guys seem to lean towards the Utah stuff more often than not, and if they're winning/making more money why wouldn't they?

Quote from: BackToBasics on April 10, 2013, 08:17:29 AM

Quote from: Gizmo823 on April 10, 2013, 07:51:57 AM

So since you obviously don't know who Rico is . . I won't tell you, but you're missing the point here.  He's not talking about league bowlers on a house shot, the original question is why does there seem to be so many Storm staffed pros on tv all the time.  Rick Benoit, a world famous coach, maybe the best in the world, has the same opinion as Rico.  Storm also has the widest range of ball reactions in their lineup. 

Exactly, people having their opinions based on their personal experiences.  Unless there is published empirical data establishing a defined difference in reaction, then that's all we are entitled to.  But at least have some evidence to go along with your opinions.  I've been with 3 different companies.  I've drilled countless balls.  I have a strong interest in the scientific method so I evaluate my findings and incorporate others and if that means forming another conclusion or retesting, I do.

You say "Storm also has the widest range of ball reactions in their lineup."    So what exactly are you basing that on?  Number of balls?  Have you thrown every companies ball and found a reaction in Storm that other's didn't?   I'll tell you when I was a Storm/Roto staffer, there was a tremendous amount of overlap in balls.  That's because they reuse the same cover in so many balls.   Why do you need 5 different balls with XYZ cover?

Storm makes fantastic equipment.  So does everyone else.  Find the reaction you like and go practice.

You're missing a huge point here.  Chris isn't just picking Columbia because he likes Columbia, he was a Brunswick guy for a long time before Columbia threw a fat stack of cash at him.  I'd throw a fishbowl and finish last every week with a smile on my face if I got paid what he does to throw Columbia.  He'd have to win about 4 titles and 2 majors a year to make up for it if he left, and THAT is the real deal here.  I'm sure it works out for some guys and they get signed by the companies they prefer using, but sponsorship is GUARANTEED MONEY.  Entering a tournament every week guarantees you nothing.