Author Topic: What should Handicap be based off? (Read 6254 times)

DanH78 · « **on:** August 18, 2009, 09:59:28 AM »

We have our league meeting this thursday. Last year, we upped the handicap to 90% of the difference of 230 because the prior year 1 guy average 230+

Here are the league stats
94 bowlers (including subs, fifth man, etc)
League Average = 193
Low average = 118
High Average = 230
16 bowlers averaged less than 180
43 averaged between 180 and 200
33 averaged between 200 and 220
2 bowlers averaged above 220 (223 and 230)

Approximately 81% of the league falls into the 180-220 range. To me, 90% of 230 just seems too high. But I don't know what it should be, 225, 220?

Suggestions?
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Hogsharley · « **Reply #16 on:** August 18, 2009, 10:32:10 PM »

quote:
quote:
I have always liked the difference between team averages and no individual
handicaps. Then there are no advantages for any one individual. Just forget
individual handicap awards.

I never understood individual handicapping in a team based league. Our league has always done 90% of the difference of the competing teams and we have never had an issue, and for the most part it has been pretty fair and competitive.

Match point leagues need individual handicaps and there also needed for subs or alternates. The team average will change with a sub so your team handicap will change along with it.

My league is 90% or 240 with the high average being about 237. The league entering average is 160 so the most handicap pins one can recieve is 72. We also have a 10 pin drop to deter sandbagging.
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DanH78 · « **Reply #17 on:** August 18, 2009, 10:45:33 PM »

quote:

I never understood individual handicapping in a team based league. Our league has always done 90% of the difference of the competing teams and we have never had an issue, and for the most part it has been pretty fair and competitive.

Well, every adult league I've ever bowled in has had a handicap high game pot.
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It IS next year!

SleepOnIce · « **Reply #18 on:** August 19, 2009, 02:14:20 AM »

'bout tree fiddy
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snowspike1 · « **Reply #19 on:** August 19, 2009, 02:27:26 AM »

[/quote]
I never understood individual handicapping in a team based league. Our league has always done 90% of the difference of the competing teams and we have never had an issue, and for the most part it has been pretty fair and competitive.[/quote]

i agree ... find it ood for both teams to get handi every night.... had teams evenly matched (one got 3 pins more handi) in that case y the 200+ free pins to both teams... they wern't bowling the high ave team was no need in it..

if the league has a handicaped high game/series block ..that is where the individual hani is used but for team ..> higher team ave- lower team ave ... lower team gets 80 to 90% of diff. but as far a indi hani base imho take highest ave(last yr book for league member) add 5 to 10 pins and be again 80 to 90% (split the diff make things diff go for 85% LOL)

Sean John 369 · « **Reply #20 on:** August 19, 2009, 01:11:04 PM »

quote:
100% to 300.
Then NO one can say it's not fair.
No one can say another person has an advantage.

Of course, I personally hate the idea. But no one can argue that there's an advantage to ANYONE!
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I agree...
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dogman666 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 19, 2009, 01:40:35 PM »

quote:
It just means that if the handicap is based off of 220, then the 230 bowler will be getting 10 free pins each week.

If a 190 bowler bowls 2 pins over average, and the 230 bowler bowls ten pins below, the 230 average bowler will still beat the 190 bowler.

Wouldn't the 190 bowler have 36 pins hdcp? Add his 192 and 36 you get 228. The 230 average would get a 220.

JohnP · « **Reply #22 on:** August 19, 2009, 03:23:32 PM »

quote:
Wouldn't the 190 bowler have 36 pins hdcp? Add his 192 and 36 you get 228. The 230 average would get a 220.

Not if the base is 220. Handicap for the 190 bowler is 27, and his game with handicap is 217, beaten soundly by the other bowler's 220. You were figuring for a base of 230, and this is a good example of why the base should always be abaove the highest average in the league. -- JohnP

sdbowler · « **Reply #23 on:** August 19, 2009, 03:36:29 PM »

As far as individual handicap it also is used with peterson point system as well. You will have individual as well as team. You will always have people saying the system is not fair. Even if you went with the 100% of 300 someone would complain about it. Most leagues I was a part of used 80 or 90% of the difference to figure out for team handicap.
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Kyle

slimjuggalo2002 · « **Reply #24 on:** August 19, 2009, 03:46:37 PM »

quote:
100% to 300.
Then NO one can say it's not fair.
No one can say another person has an advantage.

Of course, I personally hate the idea. But no one can argue that there's an advantage to ANYONE!
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We Know What Bowlers Want

Home of the HAMBONE shirt!

The problem with 100% handicap leagues are two fold:

1) You are not "incentivizing" anyone to get new equipment, to practice or to get better in any way.

2) I would argue, and I think stats prove this, that it is much easier and more likely for a 170 avg bowler to bowl a 190 than it is for a 220 avg bowler to bowl a 240. All the 170 avg bowler has to do is pick up another spare or two or get a small string of strikes and they get the 190 whereas the 220 bowler has to string a lot of strikes together to attain their score.

I personally would never bowl in a 100% handicap league... NEVER.

I do however really like the 90% of the team difference idea. Too bad our league meeting was last week...
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MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #25 on:** August 19, 2009, 03:56:39 PM »

slimjuggalo2002

I agree with your number 1. No incentive for a lower average bowler to practice and get better.

Disagree somewhat with number 2. There is a reason why the 170 average bowler is 170. For every game he is 20 above, he will have a game 20 below. He is more likely to be erratic than the 220 average bowler. The 220 average bowler will probably be more mentally tough in the latter part of the game and quicker to make adjustments to keep him closer to average.

As has been stated previously, one main reason for individual handicap is because money is paid out for individual scores and to be fair, leagues want the lower averages to have a chance at winning some of that money.

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Doug Sterner · « **Reply #26 on:** August 19, 2009, 05:11:20 PM »

I disagree with you here Gary since we are talking about leagues contested on the typical house shot....

it is way easier for a 170 bowler to bowl 20 pins over his average than for a 220 bowler to bowl 20 pins over his.

20 pins over a 170 average is a matter of carrying one strike instead of a missed spare or 2 extra spare instead of misses

20 pins over average for a 220 bowler would require the bowler to carry 2 extra strikes instead of 2 spares

I have seen it happen over and over again in our league.
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MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #27 on:** August 19, 2009, 05:29:57 PM »

Doug,

It is why I said I somewhat disagree. It may be easier for the 170 to bowl 20 above one game, but he will have more games below his average which should allow the 220 average bowler to win more points against him. If the 170 bowler didn't have more games below, his average would go up. Also assuming at least 10% handicap advantage for the 220 bowler (based on 90% hdcp and it could be an even bigger advantage for the 220 bowler if the hdcp base is set at 200 or 210). Over the course of the season, I would think the 220 bowler would win more matches with the 10% advantage.

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snowspike1 · « **Reply #28 on:** August 19, 2009, 06:50:56 PM »

at 1 time i bowled ina league with 48 teams. we used the 90% of pin diff and my team almost always was the high ave.. it was a common thing to give the other team 100+ pins per game. and we would still stomp them by 60-120 pins. granted we also had owr share of squeekers but thay came from the match ups where the handi was under 30 pins...

No matter how handi is fig. someone will say they were cheated. and call sandbagging...one reason i carry records of each yrs bowling, i am very consistant with my ave only changes by 1 to 3 pins over a 7 yr span and thats with completly changing how i throw (down - in to now thrown in to out) if i could only blend the 2 (which im working on).

I have seen guys with 230 ave get real pi$$y because they cot beat... but if they would look closer they wheren't beat by handi.. the other just had a great night it happens.

nextbowler · « **Reply #29 on:** August 20, 2009, 12:04:56 AM »

As for team handicap match point leagues, I believe that there are much better
ways of making the leagues competetive. Making the league scratch with a cap
makes it very interesting.

Russell · « **Reply #30 on:** August 20, 2009, 12:36:49 AM »

quote:
80% of 210, on an individual basis. that way the 230 guy gets 0, but his team doesnt get dinged for the 20 that he is over the baseline

Can someone explain to me how a bowler 20 pins over the baseline is getting "dinged"?
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Author Topic: What should Handicap be based off? (Read 6254 times)

DanH78

What should Handicap be based off?

Hogsharley

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

DanH78

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

SleepOnIce

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

snowspike1

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

Sean John 369

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

dogman666

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

JohnP

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

sdbowler

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

slimjuggalo2002

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

MI 2 AZ

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

Doug Sterner

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

MI 2 AZ

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

snowspike1

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

nextbowler

Re: What should Handicap be based off?

Russell

Re: What should Handicap be based off?