Post by: drw02 on February 05, 2007, 11:47:16 PM
thanks in advace
Post by: dizzyfugu on February 06, 2007, 07:55:01 AM
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: drw02 on February 06, 2007, 07:57:17 AM
Post by: dizzyfugu on February 06, 2007, 07:59:03 AM
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Wacky style video (Oct. '06) (http://"http://media.putfile.com/Style-64")
"Put some make-up on your face - Make this world a better place!" Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'
Post by: Gene J Kanak on February 06, 2007, 08:05:30 AM
. . .Just kidding
DO NOT USE BLEACH! Just hot tap water and some dawn dish detergent or Simple Green work fine. On duller surfaces, I've also had some success using pumice soap (GoJO, Fast Orange, etc) by hand with the water. It's really up to you.
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I've only bowled 300, but I've benched 345
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Post by: dizzyfugu on February 06, 2007, 08:12:39 AM
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Wacky style video (Oct. '06) (http://"http://media.putfile.com/Style-64")
"Put some make-up on your face - Make this world a better place!" Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'
Post by: Rick Wunder on February 06, 2007, 08:35:30 AM
Ebonite has recently come out with a recommendation that when giving your bowling balls a hot water bath, you should NOT use any type of cleaner/detergent/degreaser - just plain hot (not boiling) tap water. Their research has shown that when a degreasing agent is used, the oil extracted from the ball stays mixed in with the water, and some of it ends up back in the ball. When plain water is used, the extracted oil separates to the top, and does not find its way back into the ball.
I have seen the results of a plain water bath. Last week, after returning from the Ebonite seminar where the above recommendation was made, the owner of the shop where I work placed his Angular One in a hot water bath. When the ball went in, the surface was shiny, due to the oil (surface had been 4000 abralon, not polished). When the ball came out of the bath, it was no longer shiny, and it felt extremely tacky, like when it was new.
On edit: At the seminar, Ebonite recommended the hot water bath first (I'm sorry, I don't remember after how many games, but when you see the ball start to lose its reaction). Then, when the ball requires further treatment, Ebonite still recommends that you use the Hook Again system to extract the excess plasticizers that have come to the surface.
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RW (THB)
Edited on 2/6/2007 9:41 AM
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on February 06, 2007, 08:43:58 AM
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I wake up in the morning and piss excellence.
Post by: Fathead on February 06, 2007, 08:51:52 AM
Post by: thfonz98 on February 06, 2007, 09:13:01 AM
quote:
I am planning on giving a couple bowling balls baths in the next week or so. the only question I have is do you guys let the holes of the balls get wet, keep the water line above the finger holes, or cover them with a water proof tape. I have heard it is not good to let the water in the holes as it can get between the coverstock and filler and seperate the cover. If you do use tape, what kind?
silly puddy!
just when you pull the ball out let the puddy cool off for about a minute and it will pop right off in one piece.
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My ebay items (http://"http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZthfonz98QQhtZ-1")
Edited on 2/6/2007 10:12 AM
Post by: Fathead on February 06, 2007, 09:40:06 AM
quote:
silly puddy!
just when you pull the ball out let the puddy cool off for about a minute and it will pop right off in one piece.
Now that is a great idea. Thank you.
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on February 06, 2007, 09:47:35 AM
quote:
I give it two baths. First, IMHO, the shower is THE best place ot do this.
It's good to see that other people who take showers with their bowling balls are coming out too.
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Special... Agent-man!
Post by: MelvinBrunsTrack on February 06, 2007, 09:57:23 AM
Post by: leftehh- LG on February 06, 2007, 02:18:42 PM
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Bowl to Win!
"Norm Duke is living proof that elves exist"
Post by: V Spec 11 on February 06, 2007, 03:01:41 PM
quote:
be careful guys, when doing this you could actually pull out plastecizer with the oil. givin ya a heads up.
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Bowl to Win!
"Norm Duke is living proof that elves exist"
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Ebonite - The One
Track - Revmaster
Ebonite - Matrix III
Storm - Soccer Ball
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Post by: Moon57 on February 06, 2007, 04:11:28 PM
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Dick
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So many questions, so little time but I'm having fun.
Post by: GetYaWeigtUp on February 06, 2007, 06:53:14 PM
And does the ball bath work better than resurfacing? I know its cheaper!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAQSNIrgyM
Edited on 2/6/2007 7:57 PM
Post by: BrianCRX90 on February 06, 2007, 07:02:28 PM
Post by: GetYaWeigtUp on February 06, 2007, 07:05:21 PM
quote:
Don't need anything. Best thing is to get a bucket and put the ball in it and put it under the spout. That way the oil rises to the top, out of the bucket and in the drain. Do this for 10 minutes , leave the tap on hot and your done.
Ok so I can run it under hot tap water for 10 minutes straight and be done?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAQSNIrgyM
Post by: Strider on February 06, 2007, 07:40:38 PM
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Post by: GetYaWeigtUp on February 06, 2007, 08:39:11 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAQSNIrgyM
Post by: V Spec 11 on February 07, 2007, 07:32:35 AM
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Ebonite - The One
Track - Revmaster
Ebonite - Matrix III
Storm - Soccer Ball
http://members.bowl.com/FindAMember/memberView.aspx?mp=474&ms=3680&s=2003-2004
Post by: dizzyfugu on February 07, 2007, 07:38:30 AM
quote:
Ok I just gave my One and Big One a bath, seperately of course. Both seem squeaky now and clean. The water had oil and dirt all over the place. Should these balls start snapping again like they used to?
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAQSNIrgyM
Yes. At least, you should see improved traction. Sometimes it takes some games to break in the surface again, and the ball might react a bit erratic with the first shots.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Wacky style video (Oct. '06) (http://"http://media.putfile.com/Style-64")
"Put some make-up on your face - Make this world a better place!" Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'
Post by: Rick Wunder on February 07, 2007, 08:06:52 AM
quote:
Interesting Rick. Ebonite believes their plasticizer theory and says that heating balls is bad. Is this a new theory since buying Columbia? While I'm undecided on the exact method, I can't believe Ebonite has anything to say on the matter. Oil will float to the top and can be run over the top. However, a degreaser keeps the oil suspended in the water and shouldn't allow it to re-enter the ball easily, as long as the water stays at a fairly constant temperature.
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Special thanks to Dynothane, Visionary, and Lane#1 for donations to the Ballreviews Get Together.
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Strider,
My boss in the shop, who is on Ebonite's staff, attended a seminar either last week or the week before, in Milwaukee, I believe. At the seminar, they showed the new NV line and put forth this theory about bathing bowling balls. Apparently, they spend a lot of time researching this sort of thing.
This would have been before the Ebonite/Columbia announcement.
BTW, I didn't ask, so I don't know what the target audience of the seminar was. I don't know if it was staffers, pro shop operators, or other. Brian (my boss) said that Ron Hickland, one of the guys from the Ebonite segment on the History Channel Balls show, was doing a lot of the presenting.
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RW (THB)
Post by: chitown on February 07, 2007, 08:36:58 AM
quote:
Don't need anything. Best thing is to get a bucket and put the ball in it and put it under the spout. That way the oil rises to the top, out of the bucket and in the drain. Do this for 10 minutes , leave the tap on hot and your done.
This is a great idea!
Hot water baths are the best way to xtract oil from a ball. It's safe and works great.
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NFC champion Chicago Bears!
Edited on 2/7/2007 9:36 AM
Post by: GetYaWeigtUp on February 08, 2007, 12:46:22 PM
If it goes well, I'll bathe my Total Inferno in a few weeks, because thats my favorite ball right now.
I'm gonna take a look at the TNV and the Angular of these come out Ok.
I'll give an update!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAQSNIrgyM
Post by: Ragnar on February 08, 2007, 12:54:14 PM
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"Life robs us of more than death does."
Post by: Strapper_Squared on February 08, 2007, 01:13:26 PM
quote:
be careful guys, when doing this you could actually pull out plastecizer with the oil. givin ya a heads up.
Actually, that is all that comes out of a ball... the liquid, really isn't oil at all.. I'm working on finding my data, but will post when I'm finished.
S^2
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Post by: nospareball on February 08, 2007, 01:15:32 PM
Looks like plasticizers are used to soften plastics. Is that why they are used in bowling balls, or do they help with curing or uniformity?
Post by: Strapper_Squared on February 08, 2007, 01:26:45 PM
quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticizer
Looks like plasticizers are used to soften plastics. Is that why they are used in bowling balls, or do they help with curing or uniformity?
Just that.. to soften it. I think there is an ideal hardness range for bowling balls to get optimal performance. Too hard (such as a blue dot), would reduce the amount of friction. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe they are also used as "templates" to ensure a pore structure is developed in the ball upon setting of the resin...
OK. I went back and found the data. I had taken an "oil-soaked" ball and placed it in my rejevanator. At the end of the cycle, I pulled it out and it was covered with what appeared to be oil. I rinsed the ball with pentane to remove all of the liquid on the surface of the ball (and collected all of it). I evaporated the pentane, leaving behind the liquid. GC/MS analysis of the liquid showed that NO oil of any sort was present. The only compound present was:
2,2,4-Trimethyl-1,3-pentanediol diisobutyrate
A quick google search of this finds that this compound is indeed used as a plasticizer.
S^2
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Edited on 2/8/2007 2:26 PM
Post by: Grayson on February 08, 2007, 01:29:50 PM
quote:
For all the posters on this thread:
Ebonite has recently come out with a recommendation that when giving your bowling balls a hot water bath, you should NOT use any type of cleaner/detergent/degreaser - just plain hot (not boiling) tap water. Their research has shown that when a degreasing agent is used, the oil extracted from the ball stays mixed in with the water, and some of it ends up back in the ball. When plain water is used, the extracted oil separates to the top, and does not find its way back into the ball.
I have seen the results of a plain water bath. Last week, after returning from the Ebonite seminar where the above recommendation was made, the owner of the shop where I work placed his Angular One in a hot water bath. When the ball went in, the surface was shiny, due to the oil (surface had been 4000 abralon, not polished). When the ball came out of the bath, it was no longer shiny, and it felt extremely tacky, like when it was new.
On edit: At the seminar, Ebonite recommended the hot water bath first (I'm sorry, I don't remember after how many games, but when you see the ball start to lose its reaction). Then, when the ball requires further treatment, Ebonite still recommends that you use the Hook Again system to extract the excess plasticizers that have come to the surface.
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RW (THB)
Edited on 2/6/2007 9:41 AM
ok about that... in some way this theory has some "right" points... but on the other hand let me say a few words (I've studied science - in fact I am a chemist):
The dish cleaning liquid is supposed to "bind" the oil in the water... it will, if there is enough in the water build cage-like-structures around the oil moleculs/droplets and these structures are big! really big compared to the size of a water molecule.
If the concentration if the soap is too high these structures will get smaller but yet big.
I have no clue about the size of pores on today's bowling balls but I know that water will merge into the coverstock-
... maybe not much but it will. That is explaining the change of colour of some balls I own - you won't see the color change if pure heating is used to get the oil out.
If the oil will get back in the ball... I guess some will but that is negligible.
I tend to say: Ebonite is right and not ... still I will keep to my soap/dishcleaner.
Another thing is that without soap the oil will sit on the ball and then less oil will get out of the coverstock - okay this is easy to "handle" - just redo the whole thing.
Just something to explain: Every mixture ... eg. dissolving of oil in water is possible and will actually happen it is just that the concentration is very small... even smaler without soap which works like a "link" between the water and the oil. on the other hand the amount of solvatet material is limited by certain faktors.
So it is better to run 4 cycles shorty than to do one cycle with a longer time.
Also I don't know the coverstocks of bowling balls and how these interact with water/oil/dish cleaner.
What I have found:
after giving my particle pearl balls a bath these didn't hook till the second game - so I would say the ball "needs" some oil to work - now I tend to assume that the ball has somehow soaked up some water that "blocks" the ball's capability to absorb oil and to creat friction.
Trick: take a little piece of kitchen paper with a very small amount of salad oil on it and rub it on the ball (more a matter of trial and error - NO GUARANTY - it worked with my Carbide+ but killed my pearl balls!)
quote:
Rick, I have posted quite a bit about this topic and was enlightened about a tweaking to this method a few weeks back. After filling a container with a safe cleaner/degreaser the first time you submerge the ball, place the bucket underneath a faucet with a steady, but small, stream of hot water. The result? The oil will rise to the top of the container and slowly darin out as the water level increases. Sometimes, it's just as easy to let Sir Isaac Newton do the dirty work and let the oil run down the drain.
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I wake up in the morning and piss excellence.
Now that is one heck of an intelligent idea! but a terrible waste of water
About plasticisers:
Nver use HOT water... if the water is too hot to put your hand in it is too hot!
Use warm water... and rather do it mild and often than once hot and "hard"..
I might be that ONE cycle with hot water 60min will draw less oil out of than 4 cycles with warm water taking 15ming (but again this is a waste of water
)my 2cts
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Check out my Vid in my profile.. just short clips cut together about how I bowled and how I play today
and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)
Post by: Grayson on February 08, 2007, 01:31:39 PM
quote:quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasticizer
Looks like plasticizers are used to soften plastics. Is that why they are used in bowling balls, or do they help with curing or uniformity?
Just that.. to soften it. I think there is an ideal hardness range for bowling balls to get optimal performance. Too hard (such as a blue dot), would reduce the amount of friction. I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe they are also used as "templates" to ensure a pore structure is developed in the ball upon setting of the resin...
OK. I went back and found the data. I had taken an "oil-soaked" ball and placed it in my rejevanator. At the end of the cycle, I pulled it out and it was covered with what appeared to be oil. I rinsed the ball with pentane to remove all of the liquid on the surface of the ball (and collected all of it). I evaporated the pentane, leaving behind the liquid. GC/MS analysis of the liquid showed that NO oil of any sort was present. The only compound present was:
2,2,4-Trimethyl-1,3-pentanediol diisobutyrate
A quick google search of this finds that this compound is indeed used as a plasticizer.
S^2
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Edited on 2/8/2007 2:26 PM
Hey! Good work - but you used a solvent and not water ... ever tried that with water?
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Check out my Vid in my profile.. just short clips cut together about how I bowled and how I play today
and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)
Post by: GetYaWeigtUp on February 08, 2007, 01:39:17 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zAQSNIrgyM
Post by: Strapper_Squared on February 08, 2007, 01:48:22 PM
quote:
Hey! Good work - but you used a solvent and not water ... ever tried that with water?
Our GC's don't really care for water in them.. LOL And pentane is much easier to evaporate from a sample than is water. I thought it was quite interesting results as I expected at least some oil. Looks like ebonite was right on with plasticizer migrating to the surface (incidentally, I had done this a few months prior to Ebonite introducing their Hook-Again product) just out of curiosity.. at the time I wanted to know if oil absorbent products would really work...LOL
S^2
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Post by: dizzyfugu on February 09, 2007, 09:32:02 AM
I cannot tell if this is true for any ball, since the EPX works like a sponge, but, who knows? Nevertheless, I think that any water absorbed in the ball will surely "dry out" over some time when you keep it warm.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Wacky style video (Oct. '06) (http://"http://media.putfile.com/Style-64")
"Put some make-up on your face - Make this world a better place!" Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'
Post by: Grayson on February 12, 2007, 04:02:53 AM
All coverstock absorb fluids and as oil molecules are bigger then water molecules I guess water will be absorbed into the ball... but will also be released quickle... that is how I explain my pearl balls being "dead" after a bath and revive after 1-2 games or a longer waiting tim as I guess then the water is out.
EPX: definitiv one of the mos absorbing coverstocks out there... the ball will soak up anything. (cola?, wine? beer? mhh!! I am a EPX,too
For the readers:
quote:
My brother and I were discussing the soaking technique last night. For the life of us we can not figure why you would soak a such a porous object? Would it not saturate and have a adverse effect on the ball? Just curious....
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Life is sexually transmitted, and terminal...
you are right in some way... I found that if I "bathed"/soaked my pearl balls too long in the water these skidded throu till game 3 and then came back to life... or I had to wait at least 2 days... I guess to have the water "evaporate" out of the ball
like said here:
quote:
A friend of mine working in a pro shop was also curious about water absorption in modern porous balls during the bucket tour. He tried a soaked EPX T1, weighed it on the pro shop's dodo scale, and when I remember correctly, the ball sucked 4 ounces of weight during the bucket bath. I am not sure about the numbers, though, but he put the ball afterwards into a warm oven (NOT hot), and this reduced the weight back to normal.
I cannot tell if this is true for any ball, since the EPX works like a sponge, but, who knows? Nevertheless, I think that any water absorbed in the ball will surely "dry out" over some time when you keep it warm.
--------------------
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Wacky style video (Oct. '06) (http://"http://media.putfile.com/Style-64")
"Put some make-up on your face - Make this world a better place!" Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'
I can't realy say if the EPX is more absorbing anything than another ball but what I have experience from my clubmembers' balls is as follows:
The older the ball the less "moster" it is... meaning the less hook ability it has imho but the longer it lasts
The newer coverstocks are build to absorb the oil very quick to provide even on the oiliest lanes friciton (I think about the NV or the Terminator which are not dull balls).
The new "not-dull-heavy-oil"balls, that work on the oily lanes very well imho work that way as friction is not created by surface property "dull" but by coverstock property "absorbance"
particle is another factor I won't get deeper into it cause I have no clue (I should... I am doing science work on these things but I have no clue about how these particle work together in the urethan coverstock with the coverstock. I always though these particle createt friction and stopped the oil absorbance but been told the exact opposite... so no idea about particle!)
Back to the EPX
The new coverstock used on the EPX was made by a sintering technique and not poured like normal urethan coverstocks meanign the overall surface in the coverstock should be bigger than in a urethan coverstock - yes I am talking about the "inner surface" created my cavitys and the sponge like structure of the coverstock. So I guess the 4oz you recognized/measrued is water... but that water should also get out of the ball simply with time... or if you play the ball 2-3 games ( I found my pearl balls being dead these games after the bath but get back to life in game 3 or 4 ...) Also color change could be explained by water absorbed into the coverstock.
But change in temperature also changes the coverstocks color... I found these on the pk18 coverstock from brunswick... the darker the color the more the differnece can be seen either by "cold" or after a hot water bath:
Example: (Carbide+ as far as I know PK17 also called "Carbide" coverstock + particle
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/59/5585759/400_3732656537613863.jpg
here's apicture of the ball after 10-15 games after the bath (also cleaned after the bath with a certified cleaner):
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/59/5585759/400_6438656364346362.jpg
Tell me what side was in the water - ok both were...but which one was longer in the water?
one was for about 60min in the water the other just 20min
What side was in the water longer?
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"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
Check out my Vid in my profile.. just short clips cut together about how I bowled and how I play today
and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)
Edited on 2/12/2007 5:13 AM
Post by: Grayson on February 19, 2007, 01:00:07 PM
http://morichbowling.com/Products/Cleaning.htm
I for myself do as follows.
cover the thumbhole so that the tapes don't get wet (I use different brands and some tend to loose thier adhesion and fall out when they get wet... that is all! Water won't hurt the ball)
I put the ball in the sink or a bucket big enough and cover it with water.
Warm water.. not hot so that the condition is not too harsh
For cleaner I use normal dish detergent or simple hand-soap I put in the water when filling the sink/bucket.
Wait 20-30 min (not longer please... the ball will soak up water or stuff... I don't know the real science behind it but from my knowledge and experience it changes color and I guess that is water soaked into the coverstock of the ball)
after 20 min take the ball out/ let the water down the drain and clean it again with flowing warm water... wipe the ball with a clean towel...
Let it dry long enough ( esspecially the fingerholes then when you use grips will hold water... and spilling water on a bowling alley.. approach or lanes itself isn't that good
)Here's a picture of my Carbide+ with two different times..
left was 20 minutse... right side of the ball was in the water more than an hour:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/59/5585759/400_3732656537613863.jpg
Hope that will help you.
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"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
Check out my Vid in my profile.. just short clips cut together about how I bowled and how I play today
and by the way... I am a "Fritz" a "Jerry"... I am from Germany! (And please don't call me Kraut! Cause then I call you Dumbarse)
Post by: LaneHammer20 on February 19, 2007, 02:04:29 PM
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I thought my Hammers hit hard, until I whipped a LM/L ball into the pocket. WOW!
Post by: cnimsk on February 19, 2007, 02:23:35 PM
Chuck
Post by: LaneHammer20 on February 19, 2007, 03:00:51 PM
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I thought my Hammers hit hard, until I whipped a LM/L ball into the pocket. WOW!