Post by: lil League Coach on February 01, 2012, 05:54:02 AM
TJ TROUT
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Post by: laneman on February 01, 2012, 02:06:26 PM
AMF Ultra Angle
Post by: tenpinspro on February 01, 2012, 02:16:16 PM
Hey TJ,
I could be mistaken but thought KOTM mentioned that it was the Brunswick Phantom. Funny, I still have my Ultra Angle, can't remember if it was asym or not. Just remember that ball was advertised as having a built in leverage type flare.
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Post by: NoseofRI on February 01, 2012, 02:18:49 PM
If you want to get technical, I'd bet the rocks that were used to invent the game were the FIRST asymetrical balls. 
Post by: Keith Frye on February 01, 2012, 02:49:26 PM
I also believe it was the Brunswick Phantom.
Post by: bullred on February 01, 2012, 02:49:56 PM
AMF Green 5star(DickWeber line) designed by Mo.
Post by: JustRico on February 01, 2012, 02:50:43 PM
the first aymmetrical core was designed by Bill Wasserberger (RIP) from Brunswick in 1991, he has a patent on it and it was the Phantom core.
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: bullred on February 01, 2012, 02:53:05 PM
I've also read that waaaaay back when, they cut balls in two parts, tried to glue unequal parts together
Post by: tenpinspro on February 01, 2012, 02:53:43 PM
Was that the Legacy?
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Post by: JustRico on February 01, 2012, 02:57:46 PM
yes that was the Legacy and that was WAY after the Phantom
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: noslouch on February 01, 2012, 03:41:51 PM
It was the JPF in 90. Blue AXE
Post by: al_g on February 01, 2012, 03:51:41 PM
I'll throw the Axe into the mix. It came out the same year as the Phantom but a little before it if I remember. Came in a right handed and left handed version. http://www.bowlingballvault.com/companies/13-jpf/563-the-axe
I'm also curious about if the Ultra Angle was. I remember seeing one way back when and wondering what the heck was going on with it. It had some serious flare rings that no other ball had at the time.
Post by: Walking E on February 01, 2012, 04:47:54 PM
Wow, I had one of those Legacy balls. I thought it had a ceramic core.
That ball and I did not get along well.
Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Also a member of ROB STONE NATION
Post by: tenpinspro on February 01, 2012, 05:48:25 PM
Hey al_g,
Little bowling story for ya...I used to bowl with and drill for a couple of the big boys back in Chicago (Cariello, Sajek, Steinbach, Forst, Fahy..etc) and they came home from a stop and said that PDW had tried the "new" Ultra Angle and I guess his track was inverted somewhat because he got one of the flare rings to go "lefty" full roller...he never threw it again...lol
Rick Leong - Ten Pins Pro Shop
Tag Team Coaching - Co-Founder
"El" Presidente of the Legion
Post by: Strapper_Squared on February 01, 2012, 07:22:58 PM
Had a JP Fabinich(sp?) Black Axe when in youth leagues... many moons ago. Pulled it out several years ago and the ball (although quite weak) would still move a little and hit. Shot a couple decent sets in league and then ended up selling it.... it was an assymetrical core.
Scott
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Post by: nobackswing on February 01, 2012, 07:24:24 PM
I might be wrong but didn't some 80s Roto come in right and left hand versions? Was it offset symmetrical or asymmetrical?
Post by: morpheus on February 01, 2012, 07:38:07 PM
First answer was correct...AMF Ultra Angle
Post by: al_g on February 01, 2012, 10:50:15 PM
Thanks for sharing that Rick. That's a good one, lol.
Post by: bambalam on February 02, 2012, 07:23:37 AM
Post by: batbowler on February 02, 2012, 09:04:28 AM
bullred (TX)   Report Post |  Posted on 2/1/2012 at 3:53 PMI've also read that waaaaay back when, they cut balls in two parts, tried to glue unequal parts together |
Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will do some "Damn Good Bowling", be a "DV8" and not turn from it, besides bowling starts with a Big B!
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
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Brunswick Staff
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http://www.damngoodbowling.com/catalog
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
http://www.damngoodbowling.com/catalog
Post by: strikeking on February 02, 2012, 10:51:00 AM
The Angle Ultra is correct.
Strikeking
Post by: bambalam on February 02, 2012, 11:51:13 AM
What is the definition of asymmetric?
If it means having a mass bias (all three axes have different RG values), then the Ultra Angle is not asymmetric.
Post by: strikeking on February 02, 2012, 12:11:11 PM
Since the Ultra had a core like an upside down Dixie cup, that is one end is larger than the other, wouldn't this be considered asymetrical? Symetrical is when all sides of the axis are of the same shape and size. It was the first ball that had a "flared" track. I remember when this ball came out that the ABC said it would be the last of the design changes allowed. HAH!!!
Strikeking
Post by: JustRico on February 02, 2012, 02:12:24 PM
a symmetrical core ball is one that can be cut in half through the low RG plane or the primary pin and mirror itself. Unless it is a zero inch oin, it will not be perfect but it is still considered symmetrical. An asymmetrical core is one as stated previously that has a different RG value per the X, Y & Z axis.
Having the potential to create flare merely means that a core has a high amount of differential present...not asymmetry.
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: Pinbuster on February 02, 2012, 02:16:02 PM
On the Ultra I believe is was the first fall with the core tilted in manner to cause significant track flare. The hammer balls before it had the pins near the center of the grip so very little flare was evident.
I don't know the shape of the core.
However, I remember a clear plastic ball in the early 1970's that had a Rose in the center. While few actually drilled them up I would say the Rose would be an Asymetrical core.
Post by: JustRico on February 02, 2012, 03:17:59 PM
It has less to do with the shape than it does the differential....differential is the potential core strength....the reason why there was limited flare in the Hammers were because the diffs back then were in the .020s range...not because they were near the center of the grip.
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: Juggernaut on February 03, 2012, 10:15:14 AM
Do you mean the first "legal" one, or just the first one period?
A guy named Frederico Bendelari invented a type of assymetric ball way back in 1912, but it would be illegal due to the nature of it. It had an adjustable weight system in it, which would've made it assymetric due to having more mass on one side than the other.
It is patent #1,026,069
Post by: BowlinStr8t on February 04, 2012, 06:34:04 PM
My ball won't hook- Heck who am I kidding--It never does!!
Post by: JustRico on February 04, 2012, 08:01:00 PM
asymmetry does not dictate track flare....differential creates track flare
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: Bigmike on February 06, 2012, 07:28:44 AM
I remember the video and book for the Phantom. The shop I worked for then, had the mgr go to the seminar. He came back stunned and not real sure of what he had heard. I mean this was really new stuff for a lot of folks then. Now this is somewhat common knowledge to informed drillers and advanced players in the game today.
If I remember the manual, they were the first ones to touch on weight hole placement as a way of changing the flare. Back then, weight holes and lay outs were pretty limited. Unless you used the Compu - Balance system, weight holes usually were 6 3/4" over from the CG on either side of the ball unless you laid a ball out axis or leverage. If you did axis or leverage, the weight hole usually ended up on your axis point. There was a pin on the axis drilling with a hole 9" called axis balanced and I had a couple of really good rolling Blue and Purple Hammers that were laid out this way. The only other lay outs that I remember was the track-weighting on the Vectors and block-weight. Back then you could put holes to the left of your grip (right-handed) because the track never was in danger of spreading enough to clip the hole. Same with the right side of the ball: The back flares never migrated enough around the ball to clip those weight holes either. The more dynamic the blocks got, the more the flare moved around the ball front and back side.
I remember the JPF Axe's had the mark on the side and also had RH & LH models. If you wanted the ball to roll the way the manufacturer intended, you had to line the axis point up on the mark on the side. This was supposed to make it roll like an axis weighted ball because it was on one of the cones on the side of the block.
Rico can probably answer this, but it seemed like the Phantom could have been one of the best releases in a long time and possibly got over-shadowed by the reactive resins very quick rise in popularity. It seemed like in our store that once the X-Caliburs got around into mass production, we couldn't get them fast enough into the shop. No one would even look at the Phantoms once the X started to get around.
"Tell me Cup, how does a great ball striker like you shoot an 82? Well I lipped out this putt on 18......"
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Post by: JustRico on February 06, 2012, 08:46:56 PM
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: rawb300 on May 29, 2012, 06:46:07 PM
Post by: Aloarjr810 on May 29, 2012, 07:27:27 PM
Has anyone looked at the Columbia Vector 1 and 2 (sometime in the 80's)? I believe they had the standard top puck with a vertically turned puck in the center. I think this would qualify as asymmetrical.
The Vectors are symmetrical , they just had the puck lowered closer to the center of ball.
See video.
Post by: dougb on May 30, 2012, 12:31:37 AM
I always thought The Axe was the first based on patents.
Post by: mainzer on May 31, 2012, 02:34:05 AM
that stated the Black Axe as being the first Asym
Post by: strikeking on October 10, 2013, 09:27:08 PM
Post by: DP3 on October 11, 2013, 08:07:52 AM
Post by: kotm on October 11, 2013, 05:09:46 PM
phantom black... 12/10/90
:P
Post by: DP3 on October 11, 2013, 05:32:08 PM
Post by: avabob on October 13, 2013, 06:22:27 PM
Post by: Pat Patterson on October 13, 2013, 11:49:32 PM
http://wiki.bowlingchat.net/wiki/images/9/9c/Truth_About_Drilled_Balls_Seminar.pdf
Post by: kidlost2000 on October 14, 2013, 03:38:04 AM
The Brunswick Power Groove series is very much an accidental outcome that varies ball to ball. I have four undrilled PGs recently checked and the pin showed to be on average 1" or more from where it was marked because of the location of the hockey puc cores inside and the creation of a psa/mb.