Author Topic: what will be the difference? (Read 2203 times)

chipmunkbowler · « **on:** May 24, 2009, 01:15:19 AM »

between the reaction of my avalanche solid (drilled 3 1/2" no hole CG in palm) and my new attitude shift (5 1/2" extra hole level with fingers up from axis

Juggernaut · « **Reply #1 on:** May 24, 2009, 11:55:07 AM »

quote:
between the reaction of my avalanche solid (drilled 3 1/2" no hole CG in palm) and my new attitude shift (5 1/2" extra hole level with fingers up from axis

As odd as it is for me to say, CRD makes an excellent point. If you've drilled and thrown them, can't you tell the difference? What is the point of the question?

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FastTracker33 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 24, 2009, 12:07:31 PM »

The Attitude Shift will be a whole different ball throughout the entire lane. The Ava. Solid will be smooth and controllable, and the Attitude will be long and hard arc type.
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Juggernaut · « **Reply #3 on:** May 24, 2009, 12:21:56 PM »

quote:
The Attitude Shift will be a whole different ball throughout the entire lane. The Ava. Solid will be smooth and controllable, and the Attitude will be long and hard arc type.

Isn't the cover on the attitude shift stronger OOB than the avalanche? Unless he's altered the finish, wouldn't he get similar reactions from these because of the attitudes stronger cover and duller finish?

Also, he has the weaker avalanche drilled stronger and the stronger attitude drilled weaker. wouldn't that tend to make their flare potential closer together, thusly bringing them closer together in reaction?
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chipmunkbowler · « **Reply #4 on:** May 24, 2009, 12:42:58 PM »

I havn't thrown the attitude shift yet and I am just wondering what people can tell me about the difference in reaction... I know about the fact that the avalanche solid, although it is called solid, actually has a pearl coverstock (the pearl has reactive) and the attitude is a solid coverstock so it will be more arcy and the rg is similar but diff is much much higher so it will flare up for longer...

FastTracker33 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 24, 2009, 12:46:15 PM »

quote:
quote:
The Attitude Shift will be a whole different ball throughout the entire lane. The Ava. Solid will be smooth and controllable, and the Attitude will be long and hard arc type.

Isn't the cover on the attitude shift stronger OOB than the avalanche? Unless he's altered the finish, wouldn't he get similar reactions from these because of the attitudes stronger cover and duller finish?

Also, he has the weaker avalanche drilled stronger and the stronger attitude drilled weaker. wouldn't that tend to make their flare potential closer together, thusly bringing them closer together in reaction?
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The core in the Avalanche is weaker, with very low flare potential (if I remember correctly). While the Attitude's core has a higher RG and differential rating, thus making it get through the fronts cleaner. With its' 2000 grit OOB finish, long pin to axis layout, I could only assume it will make the ball be somewhat long (not very long) and keep it hard and arcy in the backend.

I'm just basing this off what i've read. I know some people have drilled Avalanches strong (like 3 3/8 stacked) and they were still not HUGE reacting balls, compared to a high performing ball like the Attitude.

Hope this helps!
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themagician · « **Reply #6 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:12:46 PM »

quote:
I havn't thrown the attitude shift yet and I am just wondering what people can tell me about the difference in reaction... I know about the fact that the avalanche solid, although it is called solid, actually has a pearl coverstock (the pearl has reactive) and the attitude is a solid coverstock so it will be more arcy and the rg is similar but diff is much much higher so it will flare up for longer...

Where in the hell did you hear this? I know a few reps and have heard a lot of things but never that the Avalanche Solid was really a pearl, and from looking at that ball there sure as hell is any pearl look to it. I think you are wrong on that.

But you should see a much more defined move at the breakpoint from the Attitude as well as see a lot more reaction on the same pattern from the Attitude. At the same coverstock finish the Attitude will be stronger overall and have a little more punch on the backend.
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chipmunkbowler · « **Reply #7 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:16:23 PM »

if you go on the ball review on this site for the solid avalanche it says 'powerkoil 18 pearl'

themagician · « **Reply #8 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:19:56 PM »

quote:
if you go on the ball review on this site for the solid avalanche it says 'powerkoil 18 pearl'

Its a misprint, http://www.brunswickbowling.com/avalanche-reactive-solid , its says its PK18 Solid and i'm willing to bet you the brunswick guys on the site will come and back me up on that.
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chipmunkbowler · « **Reply #9 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:37:58 PM »

so overall the attitude shift will hook at around the same point (attitude shift is 2.55 rg and avalanche is 2.548 which is a very minute difference) but much harder and continuous

Juggernaut · « **Reply #10 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:40:48 PM »

quote:
so if it is like the same coverstock why would the avalanche hook less (apart from the rg and diff values) than any other ball

Because it is polished and has a lower flare potential. The differential is low in the avalanche series and doesn't create nearly the flare potential as stronger cores do.

PK18 solid is pretty strong, but polished it still pushes in oil. Add in the lower flare potential and you have a lower hook rating overall.
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themagician · « **Reply #11 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:42:44 PM »

quote:
so overall the attitude shift will hook at around the same point (attitude shift is 2.55 rg and avalanche is 2.548 which is a very minute difference) but much harder and continuous

Depending on how flooded your THS is yeah they probably will hook at about the same spot with Attitude hooking more. The one thing you have to be careful about when assuming is that yes the RG's are very close but the differential isn't and from what i've seen the Attitude's cover is more aggressive than PK18, though that last point is debatable. The strength difference in the cover will make more of a difference and you will see more reaction out of the Attitude. The attitude is a strong ball, and if you have surface on it and shine on the Avalanche you will not have overlap.
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FastTracker33 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 24, 2009, 01:44:25 PM »

I think the Avalanche Solid will still be naturally longer. You have to take into account the strength of the coverstock on each ball, as well as the core. The core on the Avalanche Solid has a very low differential, making it longer, and responding off the dry later (even though it's a solid cover).
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chipmunkbowler · « **Reply #13 on:** May 24, 2009, 02:13:57 PM »

with my avalanche I tend to throw it to 9 or 10 and hit 5 at the breakpoint and I am hoping to throw it to about 12 or 13 and hit 5 at the breakpoint

Juggernaut · « **Reply #14 on:** May 24, 2009, 02:39:43 PM »

quote:
so overall the attitude shift will hook at around the same point (attitude shift is 2.55 rg and avalanche is 2.548 which is a very minute difference) but much harder and continuous

Think of it this way. Imagine trying to use a pry bar to move something. The RG would be the length of the bar, and the differential would be the force applied.

While the RG's are close (2.55 to 2.548), the force applied is quite different (.053 to .024). Using more force on the same lever allows for a greater change in status.

In bowling terms, this means that, while the RG's are close, the diffeential of the shift is stronger, allowing the ball to flare more and have greater hook potential. that is why the shift will outhook the avalanche at the same surface finish.

Now, take into account that each ball has a high RG ( pin in the track ) and a low RG ( pin on the pap ). Your avalanche is drilled with the pin 3 1/2 to pap. Dividing the differential by the distance from track to pap, we can see just exactly what RG your avalanche has post drilling ( You're track is 6 3/4 inches from your pap, and the differential is .024, so divide 6 3/4 by 24 to reach the number .28125. This means that for every .28125 inches that you move the pin, you change the post drilled Rg rating by .01. Given that 2.548 is the Rg AVERAGE, the HIGH RG would be 2.560 and the LOW RG would be 2.536, and 3 1/2 divided by .28125 = 12.4444, your post drilling RG for the avalanche is the low RG rating + .012444, or 2.536 + .0124 = 2.548, which is, coincidentally, exactly the RG average for that ball.)

Doing the same for the shift, we see the RG average for it is 2.55 with a differential of .053. This leaves us with a HIGH RG # of 2.5765 and a LOW RG # of 2.5235. Again, divide this out and you see that, for every .127 inch we move the pin, you change the post drilled RG rating by .01. 5 1/2 divided by .127 = 43.3, which means your post Rg drilling for this ball is the low Rg rating + .0433, or 2.5235 + .0433 = 2.5668.

This means that the attitude has a post drilled Rg rating that is only .0188 higher than the post drilled Rg of the avalanche. with the post drilled Rg ratings being this close, the total flare potential and the surface finish become more important factors in determining the balls total reactionary difference and performance.

Even though their post drilled Rg's are very close, the attitude hase a 2000 abralon finish and more flare potential, while the avalanche has a polished finish and lower flare potential, which to me, means that the avalanche should go longer before reacting and be a little sharper due to energy conservation, while the shift should read the friction a bit earlier and have a smoother breakpoint that the avalanche.

I know that numbers don't always tell the whole story because their are SO MANY variables. Just figuring the total drilled RG's, the stregth of the differential, and the surface finish won't always tell you the whole story and may not be indicative of a balls total hook, but may well be more indicative of the condition or shot a ball should be used on. As it is, I would expect to be able to use the avalanche on lesser amounts of oil than the shift.
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Author Topic: what will be the difference? (Read 2203 times)

chipmunkbowler

what will be the difference?

Juggernaut

Re: what will be the difference?

FastTracker33

Re: what will be the difference?

Juggernaut

Re: what will be the difference?

chipmunkbowler

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FastTracker33

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themagician

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chipmunkbowler

Re: what will be the difference?

themagician

Re: what will be the difference?

chipmunkbowler

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Juggernaut

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themagician

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FastTracker33

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chipmunkbowler

Re: what will be the difference?

Juggernaut

Re: what will be the difference?