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Author Topic: What would you do?  (Read 6846 times)

TDC57

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What would you do?
« on: January 16, 2016, 05:19:50 PM »
I'm going to lay out a scenario and ask what you guys would do in the same situation.

Last weekend we were bowling at out association tournament. There was an uneven amount of teams bowling. We were supposed to bowl on the lanes where the eventual unopposed team was but right at the last minute we were moved. Could be that the team asked for us to be moved because one of the bowlers was a guy who bowled in our league last year and got his average re-rated because he was obviously sandbagging. We were moved to the lanes next to them and paired with the original team that was supposed to be the team bowling unopposed.

As we begin tournament play we look at them and they have set their lineup with three guys on one side and two on the other. Obviously in violation of USBC rules. Our team commented among ourselves it was an illegal lineup but didn't say anything because we didn't want a confrontation with the sandbagger. After we were done I went up to the association secretary and told her that she should consult the USBC rules because what had happened was in breach of the rules and she should make sure if there was an uneven amount of teams again, that the lineup should be with all five bowlers on one side.

Now, the kicker. That team shot 3353 scratch and went into first place. Would you have filed a protest? It didn't mean anything to our team because we were awful that day and wouldn't cash. Any comments?

 

mrwizerd

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2016, 05:37:59 PM »
I would have asked why your team was moved to another pair at the last minute and yes I would have filed a protest for the lineup violation because rules are rules.

SG17

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2016, 05:39:16 PM »
file the protest.  its cheaters like that winning that eventually kill tournaments and leagues.

I used to bowl an annual handicap tournament related to work that did very minimal checking on averages; and basically used an honor system. 

there was a team that had 3 bowlers averaging around 230 in league that reported averages between 176 and 188 from sport leagues, and nothing else.  they were allowed to bowl with those lower averages for 5 straight years.  and thanks to inflated handicap that team dominated the tournament all 5 years.

Now, that tournament doesn't exist because last time it was scheduled to be held only 3 teams signed up.   and these guys were not even cheating for money.  first place was $15 trophy..

I hate cheaters, and they should be reported and disqualified.  and maybe killed.

kidlost2000

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2016, 05:41:19 PM »
Send the complaint to usbc and see what happens.  The end result will likely be nothing. They had 5 bowlers on the same pair bowling. The only advantage is being able to bowl faster sorta.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

luv2C10falll

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2016, 06:03:40 PM »
Cheaters will never change......I'm for killin um too  😆

St. Croix

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2016, 01:40:33 PM »

I hate cheaters, and they should be reported and disqualified.  and maybe killed.

I agree with the posts, but I stop just short of capital punishment. 2-5 years at Rahway (NJ) State Prison would do the job.

Definitely file the protest. It will irk you for the rest of the year if you let this slide.
"I spent half of my money on women, gambling, and booze. I wasted the other half."

W.C. Fields

TDC57

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2016, 08:59:01 PM »
Update:

I sent an e-mail to John Budnik of the USBC rules department and he said the bowling was done in violation of the USBC rules and all scores did not count. He said leagues can make their own rules and allow such a lineup if bowling unopposed, but you cannot in sanctioned tournament play. I did not file a protest, but without knowing it, one of my teammates did with our association. The secretary said she did not know the rule before I had spoken to her, but the president (who happens to be a USBC delegate) did acknowledge the rule violation. In a phone interview with my teammate he did question his motive, citing the controversy with the sandbagger last year. That didn't sit well with my friend. The president did say that the score would not count and they would be offering the team a chance to re-bowl or get their money back.

As I had feared, when this came to a head, one of the bowlers on the offending team confronted us and called my friend a liar and got aggressive with him and had to be calmed down. He even accused me of being partially to blame. He said I should have told them that it was illegal. He said none of the bowlers on his team (who have all bowled for more than 20 years) knew of the rule.

Controversy follows this team. Even that night, this guy tells a new bowler on his team that he doesn't need to sanction because he is only going to bowl a few times and you get nothing for your sanction money anyway!

12XSECH

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2016, 07:48:11 AM »
Did they collect cash that night? If so, good luck getting them to give it back. Also the USBC wont be able to force them to give it back either. BUT I think you should have said something before bowling started. If you file a protest before bowling starts, I think prize money is held until the outcome is reached.

St. Croix

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2016, 08:43:16 AM »
TDC57, you clearly did nothing wrong. Ignorance of the law is no defense in a court of law and should not be a defense here, either.
"I spent half of my money on women, gambling, and booze. I wasted the other half."

W.C. Fields

TDC57

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2016, 08:10:20 PM »
No, the team didn't collect any money because the tournament is still underway. I did not file any protest because as I said I believe it would have caused a confrontation like happened at our league session last week. As president of our league I was the one who had to inform the guy we were re-rating him. He believes I was the person who was behind that. I in fact was only acting because numerous bowlers were complaining to me asking me to act. After I had gotten the rules clarification from the USBC, I waited two months to see if he would quit sandbagging. Two weeks before our league playoffs he was still bagging and I informed him. He has a history of fights playing softball and I thought it was a smart move to just tell the association secretary to consult the rules and don't allow anyone else to bowl with that type of lineup again.

12XSECH

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2016, 07:45:22 AM »
We have sandbaggers...what they do here is they bowl in a sports league then they use that avg in a handicap tournament and get away with it. A few houses here stopped that from happening and now some of them are on the outside looking in.

avabob

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2016, 10:58:42 AM »
Just as an alternative, I do think it should have been brought up when you first saw the lineup.  No question it is not legal but I would have given them a chance to correct it at the beginning.  Also, tournament director or secretary should have known enough to not let them start this way.  On occasions when I have bowled on a team unopposed, the tournament director made absolutely sure we didn't even start on the next lane until our anchor had thrown his first ball. 

BradleyInIrving

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2016, 12:22:06 PM »
TDC - rules are rules.. Confrontation or not, stand behind them.. If people don't then those that cheat continue cheating..

dietDrThunder

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #13 on: February 23, 2016, 10:59:18 AM »
If you noticed it at the beginning, and didn't do anything, it's pretty lame to wait until after they do well and then decide you have a problem with it.

Weak sauce.

TDC57

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Re: What would you do?
« Reply #14 on: February 23, 2016, 08:45:23 PM »
dietDr.Thunder,

I didn't do anything about it at all. So back down with the lame or weak sauce crap. I didn't break any rules. Are you a fighter? Because if you aren't, confronting these guys could get you into something you're not ready for. I thought the association would allow the score they shot, but make sure this didn't happen again. I didn't know a complaint would be lodged by someone. I take your comment as just some baloney from someone who knows nothing of the situation. If you can read, you will understand this team had a member who is banned from many local tournaments for sandbagging or using family members IDs to bowl at a lesser average. He sandbagged in our league and was re-rated. He plays on a softball team that has been involved in fights with other teams. Go ahead and confront that Mr. big talk, and see what that gets you. No run along chipmunk!