BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: TDC57 on January 16, 2016, 05:19:50 PM
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I'm going to lay out a scenario and ask what you guys would do in the same situation.
Last weekend we were bowling at out association tournament. There was an uneven amount of teams bowling. We were supposed to bowl on the lanes where the eventual unopposed team was but right at the last minute we were moved. Could be that the team asked for us to be moved because one of the bowlers was a guy who bowled in our league last year and got his average re-rated because he was obviously sandbagging. We were moved to the lanes next to them and paired with the original team that was supposed to be the team bowling unopposed.
As we begin tournament play we look at them and they have set their lineup with three guys on one side and two on the other. Obviously in violation of USBC rules. Our team commented among ourselves it was an illegal lineup but didn't say anything because we didn't want a confrontation with the sandbagger. After we were done I went up to the association secretary and told her that she should consult the USBC rules because what had happened was in breach of the rules and she should make sure if there was an uneven amount of teams again, that the lineup should be with all five bowlers on one side.
Now, the kicker. That team shot 3353 scratch and went into first place. Would you have filed a protest? It didn't mean anything to our team because we were awful that day and wouldn't cash. Any comments?
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I would have asked why your team was moved to another pair at the last minute and yes I would have filed a protest for the lineup violation because rules are rules.
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file the protest. its cheaters like that winning that eventually kill tournaments and leagues.
I used to bowl an annual handicap tournament related to work that did very minimal checking on averages; and basically used an honor system.
there was a team that had 3 bowlers averaging around 230 in league that reported averages between 176 and 188 from sport leagues, and nothing else. they were allowed to bowl with those lower averages for 5 straight years. and thanks to inflated handicap that team dominated the tournament all 5 years.
Now, that tournament doesn't exist because last time it was scheduled to be held only 3 teams signed up. and these guys were not even cheating for money. first place was $15 trophy..
I hate cheaters, and they should be reported and disqualified. and maybe killed.
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Send the complaint to usbc and see what happens. The end result will likely be nothing. They had 5 bowlers on the same pair bowling. The only advantage is being able to bowl faster sorta.
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Cheaters will never change......I'm for killin um too 😆
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I hate cheaters, and they should be reported and disqualified. and maybe killed.
I agree with the posts, but I stop just short of capital punishment. 2-5 years at Rahway (NJ) State Prison would do the job.
Definitely file the protest. It will irk you for the rest of the year if you let this slide.
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Update:
I sent an e-mail to John Budnik of the USBC rules department and he said the bowling was done in violation of the USBC rules and all scores did not count. He said leagues can make their own rules and allow such a lineup if bowling unopposed, but you cannot in sanctioned tournament play. I did not file a protest, but without knowing it, one of my teammates did with our association. The secretary said she did not know the rule before I had spoken to her, but the president (who happens to be a USBC delegate) did acknowledge the rule violation. In a phone interview with my teammate he did question his motive, citing the controversy with the sandbagger last year. That didn't sit well with my friend. The president did say that the score would not count and they would be offering the team a chance to re-bowl or get their money back.
As I had feared, when this came to a head, one of the bowlers on the offending team confronted us and called my friend a liar and got aggressive with him and had to be calmed down. He even accused me of being partially to blame. He said I should have told them that it was illegal. He said none of the bowlers on his team (who have all bowled for more than 20 years) knew of the rule.
Controversy follows this team. Even that night, this guy tells a new bowler on his team that he doesn't need to sanction because he is only going to bowl a few times and you get nothing for your sanction money anyway!
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Did they collect cash that night? If so, good luck getting them to give it back. Also the USBC wont be able to force them to give it back either. BUT I think you should have said something before bowling started. If you file a protest before bowling starts, I think prize money is held until the outcome is reached.
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TDC57, you clearly did nothing wrong. Ignorance of the law is no defense in a court of law and should not be a defense here, either.
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No, the team didn't collect any money because the tournament is still underway. I did not file any protest because as I said I believe it would have caused a confrontation like happened at our league session last week. As president of our league I was the one who had to inform the guy we were re-rating him. He believes I was the person who was behind that. I in fact was only acting because numerous bowlers were complaining to me asking me to act. After I had gotten the rules clarification from the USBC, I waited two months to see if he would quit sandbagging. Two weeks before our league playoffs he was still bagging and I informed him. He has a history of fights playing softball and I thought it was a smart move to just tell the association secretary to consult the rules and don't allow anyone else to bowl with that type of lineup again.
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We have sandbaggers...what they do here is they bowl in a sports league then they use that avg in a handicap tournament and get away with it. A few houses here stopped that from happening and now some of them are on the outside looking in.
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Just as an alternative, I do think it should have been brought up when you first saw the lineup. No question it is not legal but I would have given them a chance to correct it at the beginning. Also, tournament director or secretary should have known enough to not let them start this way. On occasions when I have bowled on a team unopposed, the tournament director made absolutely sure we didn't even start on the next lane until our anchor had thrown his first ball.
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TDC - rules are rules.. Confrontation or not, stand behind them.. If people don't then those that cheat continue cheating..
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If you noticed it at the beginning, and didn't do anything, it's pretty lame to wait until after they do well and then decide you have a problem with it.
Weak sauce.
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dietDr.Thunder,
I didn't do anything about it at all. So back down with the lame or weak sauce crap. I didn't break any rules. Are you a fighter? Because if you aren't, confronting these guys could get you into something you're not ready for. I thought the association would allow the score they shot, but make sure this didn't happen again. I didn't know a complaint would be lodged by someone. I take your comment as just some baloney from someone who knows nothing of the situation. If you can read, you will understand this team had a member who is banned from many local tournaments for sandbagging or using family members IDs to bowl at a lesser average. He sandbagged in our league and was re-rated. He plays on a softball team that has been involved in fights with other teams. Go ahead and confront that Mr. big talk, and see what that gets you. No run along chipmunk!
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Obviously in violation of USBC rules. Our team commented among ourselves it was an illegal lineup but didn't say anything because we didn't want a confrontation with the sandbagger. After we were done I went up to the association secretary and told her that she should consult the USBC rules because what had happened was in breach of the rules and she should make sure if there was an uneven amount of teams again, that the lineup should be with all five bowlers on one side.
Sorry, I know you don't want to hear it but it IS fear-based thinking. You can rationalize it all you want but, it appears, to you (or your teammate) no confrontation > enforcing rules.
No, I'm not a fighter but if someone has low emotional intelligence that's fine w/me. If someone has a problem it's with the rules and not with me. I forgive them for not understanding that and they can feel free to not like me or carry on etc. I mean really? Fight over it? Haha
Again, they have an issue w/the rule book and themselves and not me. I can't control what others do. I have to admit I do get a kick out of:
I did not file any protest because as I said I believe it would have caused a confrontation like happened at our league session last week.
How ignorant people are over things.......
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Sorry, I can't help but be reminded of this:
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That is absolutely hilarious!!! I play softball and laugh at the Softball Guy! Wow, you just hit a home run from an underhand pitch with a loaded bat! You're the man!!!! LOL
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Good times,
I reported it to the association secretary and contacted the USBC, for a rules clarification, my teammate filed a protest to the association who ultimately contacted the USBC. They immediately ruled the scores did not count. We did our job, if it was our job in the first place? The association secretary sat directly behind the lanes the team was bowling on and did nothing. Maybe she should shoulder the burden here and not us. I didn't care if they won the tournament, I just wanted to make sure it didn't happen again. In the end we found out the center's owner put the lineup in like that. Maybe he should carry some burden also. He's bowled for over 30 years like most of the team involved, yet all say the didn't know the rule. I don't believe handling it the way we ultimately did places any blame on us. We saw at the next night of our league how it turned out, so I'll stand by my actions!
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Good times,
I reported it to the association secretary and contacted the USBC, for a rules clarification, my teammate filed a protest to the association who ultimately contacted the USBC. They immediately ruled the scores did not count. We did our job, if it was our job in the first place? The association secretary sat directly behind the lanes the team was bowling on and did nothing. Maybe she should shoulder the burden here and not us. I didn't care if they won the tournament, I just wanted to make sure it didn't happen again. In the end we found out the center's owner put the lineup in like that. Maybe he should carry some burden also. He's bowled for over 30 years like most of the team involved, yet all say the didn't know the rule. I don't believe handling it the way we ultimately did places any blame on us. We saw at the next night of our league how it turned out, so I'll stand by my actions!
I don't think anyone disputes that it isn't a collective failure.
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dietDr.Thunder,
I didn't do anything about it at all. So back down with the lame or weak sauce crap. I didn't break any rules. Are you a fighter? Because if you aren't, confronting these guys could get you into something you're not ready for. I thought the association would allow the score they shot, but make sure this didn't happen again. I didn't know a complaint would be lodged by someone. I take your comment as just some baloney from someone who knows nothing of the situation. If you can read, you will understand this team had a member who is banned from many local tournaments for sandbagging or using family members IDs to bowl at a lesser average. He sandbagged in our league and was re-rated. He plays on a softball team that has been involved in fights with other teams. Go ahead and confront that Mr. big talk, and see what that gets you. No run along chipmunk!
Am I a fighter? What is, this, West Side Story? A violent softball playing sandbagger? Oh no! Come on...
The recap:
1. You noticed that the team was bowling with an illegal lineup, and even talked about it with your teammates.
2. You didn't tell anyone about it, or otherwise take any action of any kind.
3. After bowling was complete, when it was too late for the other team to do anything about it, you went to the association secretary and informed her that the team bowled with an illegal line up. So ya, you did do something.
This is exactly what I said the first time. So ya, I can read.
Instead of saying 'weak sauce' I'll say this instead. If you were going to say something, you should have either said it before they bowled (since you clearly noticed it before you bowled) or you should have kept your mouth shut. Instead, like a 9 year old tattling on the playground, you waited until it was too late for them to fix it, then ran to the association secretary. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't make what they did ok, it just makes your approach to the situation lame.
Weak.
Sauce.
On a side note, you posted on the Internet asking people's opinions about what happened. Try your best not to get all in a twist when it turns out you don't like the opinions you get.
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Since you are definitely thick headed. I'll repeat it. Read it slowly so you comprehend. All I did was tell the secretary it was an illegal lineup and that they shouldn't let it happen again. I didn't ask for the score to be thrown out. You must be able to understand that. Tattling that wasn't. I left fully thinking the scores would stand up and didn't care. Unbeknownst to me, my teammate filed a protest. I didn't have a dog in the show, but knew this would cause some problems. I broke the scuffle up. I was accused of causing the problem, when everyone knew I had only told the secretary to make sure nobody else bowled in that manner. As far as getting in a twist, you called me lame and weak sauce, it would seem you were looking for a certain response or you're just another mental midget trolling this site!
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If it was a known sandbagging POS, I would have told on them and pushed it until they got disqualified. Then told them I did it.
'Cause that's the way I roll. ;D
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Since you are definitely thick headed. I'll repeat it. Read it slowly so you comprehend. All I did was tell the secretary it was an illegal lineup and that they shouldn't let it happen again. I didn't ask for the score to be thrown out. You must be able to understand that. Tattling that wasn't. I left fully thinking the scores would stand up and didn't care. Unbeknownst to me, my teammate filed a protest. I didn't have a dog in the show, but knew this would cause some problems. I broke the scuffle up. I was accused of causing the problem, when everyone knew I had only told the secretary to make sure nobody else bowled in that manner. As far as getting in a twist, you called me lame and weak sauce, it would seem you were looking for a certain response or you're just another mental midget trolling this site!
Oh I see what you're saying...my mistake. The team next to you bowled with an illegal lineup, you took notice of this, and after they were done bowling you went to the association secretary and informed them that the team bowled illegally.
But you didn't tattle.
Ya I see my mistake. Ok, not really.
I would like to point out again that you're the one who asked for an opinion. I'm sorry you don't like the response. Maybe don't ask questions if you don't want an answer next time? Just a thought.
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I want to Bowl with Dr thunder and milorafferty,my kinda guys
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If you weren't so stupid you would of also noted that I didn't ask for a disqualification. I accepted their score was probably going to stand, I just asked that they not allow anyone to do it again. I wouldn't call that tattling, more like narcing. I don't care you're an a-hole or what you post. Keep trolling.
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Lucky I ducked on that one 😆