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Author Topic: When a team pre/post bowls too much  (Read 7994 times)

trash heap

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When a team pre/post bowls too much
« on: January 04, 2013, 10:47:45 AM »
Do you think there should be a limit to a team or an individual on a team that pre/post bowls too much. Could a league set a rule that the team is only allowed a certain amount of pre/post bowls.

Example: A league is scheduled to bowl 36 weeks. Maybe set the max of pre/post bowl to 4 weeks for each team.


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dwandel

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2013, 11:02:41 AM »
We had a rule like that although i believe it could go against USBC rules in some cases.You can't force a forfit.
personally,I don't think pre/post bowling should be alowed period.Bowling is the only sport/game that allows something like this.
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hhhbs1

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2013, 11:30:01 AM »
We have a rule that a team can only pre or post bowl 3 times in a season.
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t1buck

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2013, 11:47:12 AM »
This is taken from the rulebook. I do not thank you can put a number on how many time a team can Pre-Postbowl.
111b. Reason
A league cannot adopt a rule that would have the effect of not permitting any pre-bowling/
postponements. The league must grant a pre-bowl/postponement when the team is unable to field a
legal lineup for the following reasons:
1. Some of its bowlers are participating in the USBC Championships, state or local association
championship tournaments or attending an annual meeting.
2. There is sufficient cause.
3. An emergency situation.
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ImBackInTheGame

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2013, 12:43:36 PM »
I agree that Pre/post bowling should not be allowed at all.  Most leagues have a lengthy sub list, use it. lol
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trash heap

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2013, 01:49:24 PM »
Okay, t1buck,  I think you are right. So it comes down to the approval process. As stated in another post. Based on the rules.

Quote
109b. Lack of Legal Lineup
When one or both teams scheduled against each other fail to present a minimum legal lineup and a postponement was not requested, the game(s) is (are) forfeited unless an emergency existed. The postponement committee or board of directors shall decide whether an emergency existed and, if so, the match shall be rescheduled under the postponement rules. Decisions made by the postponement committee can be appealed to the league board of directors.

A league needs to have a postponement committee or have the board of directors (league captains) vote whether the team is granted a postponement. So games can be forfeited if they choose.

In the situation I am familiar with, I know that this voting processing does not happen. I think if that was the case, the league's board (or postponement committee) would get tired of having to vote each for a team failing to come in on league night.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 01:52:45 PM by trash heap »
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the_l3g3nd_killer

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2013, 01:49:37 PM »
The Wednsday night league at my center that I sub in a lot does not allow pre bowls, hence why I sub a lot in that league.  I usually get in about 50-60 games per season as a sub just for that reason.
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trash heap

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2013, 02:12:08 PM »
Quote
Rule 111 – Pre-bowl/Postponements

111a. Types

Types of prebowls and postponements:

1. Bowling in direct opposition.

2. Team unopposed bowling: Permitted, unless the league adopts a rule prohibiting this type of competition.

3. Individual unopposed bowling:
a. Adult leagues: Prohibited, unless the league rules state otherwise.
b. Youth Leagues: Permitted, unless the league rules state otherwise.

NOTE: Unopposed is bowling without your scheduled team.

Now just looking at rule 111. Especially at rule 3a. I think a league should keep it prohibited in an adult league. If a league chooses to overturn this rule then they should discuss this with the bowling center ahead of time. I actually think this is the problem I seeing with this league. They allow individual post bowling, and it is getting abused too much.

But it still should all come down to a vote to allow pre/post bowling.
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t1buck

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2013, 02:19:24 PM »
Trash around here it is left up to the League President and Secretary to handle that. It is never been a problem. If you cannot field a team everybody lets you make it up. Because you never know when your teams going to be in that position. To your last post none of my league's here allow individual Pre/Post bowling it can lead to problems it needs to be done has a team. The League needs to change that in their league rules if not in League Rules USBC does not allow individual Pre/Post. Just has I quoted you cannot prohibit Pre/Post bowling USBC does not allow a league to have such a rule.
the_  you wednesday night league is in violation of the rule I quoted above. Any team that would appeal that do your local assoc. or USBC would win. You cannot have said such rule. That type of rule is the reason I always get a copy of the league rules before league start up meeting's to make sure their is no problem with their individual rules.
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hhhbs1

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2013, 03:13:07 PM »
T1buck Rule 111a 2. says 2. Team unopposed bowling: Permitted, unless the league adopts a rule prohibiting this type of competition.

That being said leagues can have a rule to not allow unopposed pre and post bowling. So if a team is there ready to bowl and the other team wants to post bowl according to rule 111a 2. we can say no since it would be unopposed.
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t1buck

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2013, 03:37:55 PM »
hhhbs1 you need to read the whole rule. If one of these reason come up you will lose on appeal.
111b. Reason
A league cannot adopt a rule that would have the effect of not permitting any pre-bowling/
postponements. The league must grant a pre-bowl/postponement when the team is unable to field a
legal lineup for the following reasons:
1. Some of its bowlers are participating in the USBC Championships, state or local association
championship tournaments or attending an annual meeting.
2. There is sufficient cause.
3. An emergency situation.

That why the rule you quote is correct but it still would fall under these reason. That why no league needs to have a rule about not allowing unopposed bowling. There is way to many things that can come up and fall under any one of those reason especially Emergency.

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trash heap

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2013, 04:33:41 PM »
Alright now. I am going to add some confusion. This is a just for kicks scenario. I like discussions like this.

You have league with the following rules for pre/post bowling. League has rules that prohibits team unopposed and individual unopposed bowling. Pretty much leaving pre/post bowling with direct opposition.

A team in that league requests pre/post bowl because they are participating in the USBC Championships, state or local association. The team they are scheduled against has no choice in the matter and must bowl on the pre/post bowl date.

Is this correct?
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t1buck

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 04:38:31 PM »
Honestly that the way  I would read it. Going by the rule posted. That why Team Unopposed bowling should be allowed.
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tommyboy74

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2013, 05:15:48 PM »
In the league I'm in, we have a huge sub list, and there are teams that use it all season long.  However, we have to have 3 regulars on each team every week for the individual and team wins to count.

As for pre/post-bowl, we allow it but it is up to the team captains to give advanced notice.  No notice, no pre/post bowling.  That happened in November where the team I'm on ended up bowling unopposed because the other team of 5 never gave any notice.  Usually, it's not a problem since the teams know they have to field at least 3 regulars and can go through the sub list.
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iowalefty

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Re: When a team pre/post bowls too much
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2013, 12:26:34 AM »
One league I bowl in voted on a limit on pre/post bowling..3 or 4, can't remember.  Past that limit, a penalty on handicap is imposed (ie, 10 pin penalty).  Never heard of such a rule, but it certainly makes sure pre/post bowling occur with reason, not just because.
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