Post by: trash heap on September 15, 2009, 03:16:09 AM
If his team chooses to stay after the two weeks, they will get a Vacancy Score of 120 with handicap figured in based from league rules.
Now this is where I am having trouble. Does this team need to pay for the Vacancy spot? To me it doesn't seem right to have that done.
I can find no league rule that applies to the situation. I hear a lot of things said but nothing in writing.
Is the Bowling Center allowed to charge (lineage) this team for a fourth bowler that they don't have?
Should the league expect this team to pay into the prize fund for the missing fourth bowler?
I guarantee if the answer is "YES" to either of these questions, the team is going to quit right on the spot.
We are hopeful to find a replacement but two weeks might not be enough time.
Post by: The Bowlers Edge 2 on September 15, 2009, 11:21:03 AM
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Post by: NoseofRI on September 15, 2009, 11:21:08 AM
Post by: The Bowlers Edge 2 on September 15, 2009, 11:21:43 AM
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The Bowler's Edge Pro Shop
Post by: DanH78 on September 15, 2009, 11:34:28 AM
As for the prize fund, why not just figure out how much each bowler contributes to the prize fund (pretty easy to figure out) and then deduct that from that teams winnings at the end of league.
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It IS next year!
Post by: trash heap on September 15, 2009, 12:03:54 PM
Another question on lineage. It appears that this has happened in the past and it seems the bowling center is charging the league by team. You are supposed to have four player team on that lane so they will charge you for 4 people even though the team only has 3 members. By no means is this meant to put down the bowling center, I understand they need to run a business too. I am just trying to do the right thing in this situation.
Here is my opinion on this (2 scenarios below):
1. Team has 4 bowlers. 2 bowlers choose not show up on a week. Those who choose not show up have to pay lineage and league fees.
2. Team has 3 bowlers (don't have fourth). All three bowlers show up. As a team they pay lineage for 3 bowlers. Prize fund they pay for 4 bowlers (By Team).
Just throwing this out there.
Post by: triggerman on September 15, 2009, 12:20:24 PM
the league has a contract with the house for x number of bowlers per week, if one person quits and now league has y bowlers, guess what they still have a contract for x bowlers. It is up to the team and the league to fill that spot
both lineage and prize fund needs paid
league needs to read their contract with the house
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Edited on 9/15/2009 12:21 PM
Post by: triggerman on September 15, 2009, 12:28:50 PM
quote:
Thanks for the replies.
Another question on lineage. It appears that this has happened in the past and it seems the bowling center is charging the league by team. You are supposed to have four player team on that lane so they will charge you for 4 people even though the team only has 3 members. By no means is this meant to put down the bowling center, I understand they need to run a business too. I am just trying to do the right thing in this situation.
Here is my opinion on this (2 scenarios below):
1. Team has 4 bowlers. 2 bowlers choose not show up on a week. Those who choose not show up have to pay lineage and league fees.
2. Team has 3 bowlers (don't have fourth). All three bowlers show up. As a team they pay lineage for 3 bowlers. Prize fund they pay for 4 bowlers (By Team).
Just throwing this out there.
contract with the house
as I said in my post, every league has one
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Triggerman
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Post by: Krakken on September 15, 2009, 12:29:49 PM
quote:
I disagree
the league has a contract with the house for x number of bowlers per week, if one person quits and now league has y bowlers, guess what they still have a contract for x bowlers. It is up to the team and the league to fill that spot
both lineage and prize fund needs paid
league needs to read their contract with the house
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Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Edited on 9/15/2009 12:21 PM
This depends on the house. Brunswick houses will bend you over and make you pay, but most indicate you are only required to pay for the bowlers that are officially in the league.
After fulfilling his duties, giving 2 weeks notice and paying for them, the league is now down one bowler and should be charged accordingly.
The prize fund needs to be re-adjusted. You don't force that team to pay for the bowler that left.
If you tried that with me, I would give my notice, pay my 2 weeks and be gone too.
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Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes
Post by: triggerman on September 15, 2009, 12:33:04 PM
quote:quote:
I disagree
the league has a contract with the house for x number of bowlers per week, if one person quits and now league has y bowlers, guess what they still have a contract for x bowlers. It is up to the team and the league to fill that spot
both lineage and prize fund needs paid
league needs to read their contract with the house
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www.bowlingballexchange.com
Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Edited on 9/15/2009 12:21 PM
This depends on the house. Brunswick houses will bend you over and make you pay, but most indicate you are only required to pay for the bowlers that are officially in the league.
After fulfilling his duties, giving 2 weeks notice and paying for them, the league is now down one bowler and should be charged accordingly.
The prize fund needs to be re-adjusted. You don't force that team to pay for the bowler that left.
If you tried that with me, I would give my notice, pay my 2 weeks and be gone too.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes
once again, it has to do with the contract with the house, that contract is set up to protect both the house and the league
the house is protected via guaranteed money, the league is protected via guaranteed lineage, it is neogiated at the beginning of the season. Will some houses bend it, sure, but the league should to everything it can to uphold the contract and that means finding a replacement., when the next contract comes around, and the last was fulfilled perfectly, the house is in a more leaue freindly mood and will often times work a better deal
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Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: triggerman on September 15, 2009, 12:34:42 PM
having run multiple leagues, its been this way for a long long time
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Lane #1 Baby
Post by: trash heap on September 15, 2009, 01:52:07 PM
I understand about the contract. It makes sense.
If a Team has 3 bowlers (don't have fourth). All three bowlers show up. As a team they pay lineage for 4 bowlers. Prize fund they pay for 4 bowlers. Contract with bowling center and league must be kept.
.
Another scenario (Not trying to be a pain...just taking it to another level)
What if 2 teams quit. Is the league still responsible to pay for those 8 bowlers?
No matter what situation is 1 bowler, 2 bowlers, 1 team, or 2 teams quitting. I think it would be in the best interest that the League Officers talk to the Bowling Center and get their view on the matter. There is area here to work with. Working on the problem so it benefits both Bowling Center and the League.
Post by: triggerman on September 15, 2009, 02:16:36 PM
quote:
Thanks triggerman,
I understand about the contract. It makes sense.
If a Team has 3 bowlers (don't have fourth). All three bowlers show up. As a team they pay lineage for 4 bowlers. Prize fund they pay for 4 bowlers. Contract with bowling center and league must be kept.
.
Another scenario (Not trying to be a pain...just taking it to another level)
What if 2 teams quit. Is the league still responsible to pay for those 8 bowlers?
No matter what situation is 1 bowler, 2 bowlers, 1 team, or 2 teams quitting. I think it would be in the best interest that the League Officers talk to the Bowling Center and get their view on the matter. There is area here to work with. Working on the problem so it benefits both Bowling Center and the League.
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Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: echidapus on September 15, 2009, 02:27:10 PM
Does the contract then change for 20 teams? If it does change for an increase in teams, isn't it fair for it to then change if you lose a team?
I'm pretty sure a house would want to have more money for the extra team although they aren't taking up more lanes or space or time.
Post by: triggerman on September 15, 2009, 02:42:53 PM
quote:
So a league has 19 teams and agrees to pay x for the season for 19 teams. 3 weeks into the season they find a team to make it an even 20.
Does the contract then change for 20 teams? If it does change for an increase in teams, isn't it fair for it to then change if you lose a team?
I'm pretty sure a house would want to have more money for the extra team although they aren't taking up more lanes or space or time.
most of the contracts I have seen are fairly open ended, our current contract stated up to 10 teams of 5 (thats what the house gave us lanes for) we originally only had 8, show up to league and they say we have 11, house moved us agreed to try and find another team, we only had 10 anyway so no big deal, but the house was willing to work the contract based upon the number of teams we started with if we started with 8 teams of 5 that is 40 guys at 10.50 a night lineage, our contract was for a minimum of 425.00 per night, with openings for two more teams
Like I said when it comes to teams they are more open, but one bowler, not so open, no league anywhere wants a team to run one bowler short all year. it does 2 things, throws off lineage, and puts said team at a great disadvantage
team to individual, apples to oranges
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Triggerman
F.O.S Loud, F.O.S. Proud
Lane #1 Baby
Post by: THIRTYSIXRED on September 15, 2009, 02:49:34 PM
Now the length of the contract generally gets upheld. For instance if the league agreed to bowl 36 weeks, it will be charged for the full 36 weeks even if you decide to change your format and bowl 34 weeks. You have to specify up front how long your league runs up front, and give the center manager notice as to how long your planning on using the same sets of lanes on a recurring basis.
I have seen many leagues sign contracts to reserve spots for the following year (only to never show up and bowl) as they were given an even better offer from another house. The contract is broken and the house then has the ability to give those lanes to another league.
Post by: Juggernaut on September 15, 2009, 06:13:03 PM
If a team is a bowler (or more) short, the lineage charges come out of THAT TEAMS PRIZE MONEY for the year. This is used as an incentive for teams to replace bowlers who leave/quit.
If the charges owed exceed the total amount of prize fund for THAT TEAM, the excess charges come out of the total league prize fund ( which really hacks off other teams who haven't had a shortage). Even more incentive to either replace the bowlers or pay for the stuff yourself.
Our team had a guy drop out, so we each pitched in an extra $3.75 apiece each week until a replacement could be found. Another team left owing several hundred dollars (in spite of a rule against bowling if you owe 2 weeks or more, but that's another story) and the total prize fund suffered. When that team showed up to bowl the next season, they were voted out of the league entirely.
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Post by: stormed1 on September 16, 2009, 10:45:21 PM
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Post by: sammy on September 16, 2009, 10:53:43 PM
Post by: sdbowler on September 17, 2009, 11:58:42 AM
As far as what to do if the league drops teams or adds teams you just redo your contract like Trig said. There never will be a way to please both the center and the bowlers. A lot people think you should only pay for what is there to bowl cause they don't want to pay for the person missing. While the center is looking at it as they have a reserved time for the league with that many lanes for you to bowl you need to pay for it.
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Kyle