BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Nicanor on May 05, 2010, 12:14:29 PM
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If we only pay $10 to National USBC where does the rest of the money go if you''re paying $20 for a USBC santioning card? Who pays for awards? Local or National office?
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
Edited on 5/5/2010 8:14 PM
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http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/rules/pdfs/2009-2010PlayingRules.pdf
Page 8 explains the fees.
Not sure about yours, but I think our local also has awards. Of course it's possible the awards are from the center. Either way we get awards that are similar to the old USBC awards (150 game, 175 game, pins, key chains, etc - based on average).
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I believe the USBC also paid for the pro womens prize fund which of course comes from sanction fee
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name
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Thank you for the response, but my real question is: what do we get from the local USBC association that is worth $9-$10 per person (USBC santioning card) per year?
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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You need to go to your annual local association meeting for that information or ask your Association President. Each association has a Board of Directors who vote on the local fees. I think the current limit that a local association can charge is $10. I am one of the Directors for our local association and we vote on this every year. By the way, our local fee is only $5, which is used for the yearly awards banquet, center certification, meeting costs for the association etc.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
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When in doubt ask USBC. I have seen some association presidents that have no idea what goes on. They are elected and it might has well have been a beauty contest. The association manager is suppose to be the authority on what is going on and they probably know a little more. How much more is a good question. Some associations are run very well others may be clueless.
Smash49
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WHO CARES. Didnt we just have this same thread about a month or 2 ago? You are paying $20 per year to participate in the sport you are supposed to enjoy. It is nothing compared to what bowlers pay for their league per year, and weekly pots and alcohol. Bowlers are so cheap. I could care less what my extra $10 goes to.
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Toodles
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quote:
WHO CARES. Didnt we just have this same thread about a month or 2 ago? You are paying $20 per year to participate in the sport you are supposed to enjoy. It is nothing compared to what bowlers pay for their league per year, and weekly pots and alcohol. Bowlers are so cheap. I could care less what my extra $10 goes to.
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Toodles
Someone has a reading comprehension problem. If you notice the subject of this thread, it seems that Nicanor cares. But thanks for your ever present opinion.
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Nine in the pit with the Tenpin left standing. dooooh!!
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I honestly don't carre about $20. But USBC takes $10 of that and has been the same for some time. The State gets $1. So that leaves our local association with $9 per sanction card. We have lost so many awards in the past years to where now wwe don't get any or a stupid magnet. Most work done with regards to our local USBC office is done voluntarily. So from last year we went from $19 to $20 for a sanctioning card. Where is the local money going?
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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I would say the ultimate answer would be to pad pockets. Whose pockets and where......that I dont know, but if investigated long enough, i'd say we'd see a substantial portion of that in pockets.
That's my opinion, that will change when proven otherwise.
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"Few men have virtue to withstand the highest bidder" - George Washington
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I am not a member of our local association, so I do not know everything that they do, but I am aware of some of it just by bowling four days a week.
Our local runs the city tournaments and helps in the county and state tournaments. They also just purchased many new pins for local awards (225, 250, 600, 650, etc) since they are no longer available from the National. They had to design the awards and then find a place to have them made and because of the cost, they had to buy a very large amount, enough to last five to ten years. You would think that the National assn could contract that out and then sell the awards to the locals for a lesser cost, but... every local is on their own for that.
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nicanor,
$9 local dues... some of that goes to paying the association manager's position. depending on the local association, you may get local awards too. some of it goes towards local association tournament, paying for lineage, advertising, that sort of stuff for the tournament. some of it goes to having to do background checks on board members to protect the youth from predators. some of it is processing fees, some of it goes to the annual banquets, award ceremonies and so on... there's many things your local association has to pay for with that $9 per person. more than what i listed...
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quote:
$20 bucks a year. A nickel a day. Who cares is right. Every single one of us pisses that and more away each day easily. Stroke was right, bowlers have to be the cheapest "sportsmen" on the planet.
Thank you CRD. someone sees the light. I'll gladly "donate" my extra $10 for the people that run our association tourney every year, provide a banquet and plaques for awards for the season, and keep a nice up to date website. $10 ain't sheeet.
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Toodles
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quote:
I'll gladly "donate" my extra $10 for the people that run our association tourney every year, provide a banquet and plaques for awards for the season, and keep a nice up to date website. $10 ain't sheet.
Not all associations do that. Our $10 goes for someone to be in a position, be away more then he's there, pay for his travel money to go to the state/national meeting. Other than that, can't see where the money goes.
You're welcome to ask for an expense sheet but none has ever been given, all that's said is it's in the meeting minutes, which you can't get a copy of. That may well be only here but it's one reason some people wonder where the money goes.
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But also there are differing amounts of bowlers in a certain area. Here in the San Diego area which includes local cities, there are quite a lot of bowlers. Awards went away. We wonder what happens to all our awards, but don't care that our USBC cards continually go up.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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quote:
nicanor,
$9 local dues... some of that goes to paying the association manager's position. depending on the local association, you may get local awards too. some of it goes towards local association tournament, paying for lineage, advertising, that sort of stuff for the tournament. some of it goes to having to do background checks on board members to protect the youth from predators. some of it is processing fees, some of it goes to the annual banquets, award ceremonies and so on... there's many things your local association has to pay for with that $9 per person. more than what i listed...
True. My local association also publishes a magazine. http://www.ncausbca.org/bowlmag/bowlmag.htm
The website could use a little work, but it is what it is.
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Just wanted to jump on here and clear up a few things. National dues are $10, and have gone up only once in the last 9 years, and will stay the same for 2010-11. The rest of your annual dues go to local and state. Different associations use those dues for different things, but a good portion of it does go to paying the association manager's salary.
For those that may not be aware, here's a look at some of the things that USBC National does for the members' $10. I've broken it up into four different categories:
NATIONAL GOVERNING BODY
Rules
- Providing the rulebook, plus counselors to interpret it
Bonding
- Your insurance that league prize funds will always be paid
Specifications/certifications
- Maintaining the integrity of the game through its equipment
SMART program
- Management of scholarship funds for all youth bowlers
Team USA
- Supporting the team that participates in competitions worldwide
Coaching certifications
- Know for sure that you are getting a qualified coach
Sport bowling
- Leagues that you bowl with lanes just like the pros face
Training Center
- World-class training facility for Team USA and other USBC members
Registered Volunteer Program
- Keeps kids safe out on the lanes
MEMBER SERVICES
Awards
- Everything from 300 rings to printable certificates
Certified averages
- Allowing you to participate in local and state tournaments
Championship tournaments
- Administration of tournaments for all levels of competition
High school/collegiate
- Growing the sport for those in schools around the nation
Member rewards
- Discounts on many products you’d be buying anyway
BIC/customer service
- Answering your questions for everything USBC
Speakers for state/local functions
- Staff members coming to your event to represent headquarters
Convention
- Annual gathering to map the future of the organization
MEDIA
US Bowler/US Youth Bowler
- Quarterly magazine for adults and youth
Bowl.com
- The most visited bowling web site in the world
Web streaming
- Live online coverage of dozens of tournaments and events annually
TV events
- Championship events on national TV
E-mail communication
- Keeps you updated with programs and what’s happening
CHARITY/DIVERSITY
Bowling Foundation
- The charitable arm of the sport of bowling
Diversity
- Assuring the sport is accessible to people of all backgrounds
Thanks for reading. If you have any more questions about where your dues go, I'll be checking this thread periodically to provide some answers.
Pete Tredwell
USBC Managing Director, Media
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Our cards will go from $18 to $20 starting with any new leagues that begin on March 15th 2010 or later. I went to the meeting where the increase was voted on and was one of maybe 6 people there that was not a director. I had been a director for many years but had left the board due to other actviities. When I left we had a surplus then two years later if it were not for the state tournament host fee we would have been bankrupt. Hard to believe and trinket awards are a small part of that cost. Here is what I can tell you on costs.
Rental on office, utilities, mailing of awards and information to secretaries, local awards, office secretary salary and office manager salary. I know many local associations have their office at someones home, but in a large association that would take a huge home. Since the Dallas BA does all of the center certifications that equipment must have a home and the supplies for that operation also is an added cost. The WBA locally is not involved in that aspect in any way. The BA also does the lane condition inspections which again is a cost for the equipment and tapes, but the directors do the inspections may get mileage for this function, can't swear to that but they should. Once upon a time the directors were treated to two dinners per year for their efforts, this year they had to pay for their own. There is also the cost for the championship awards banquet/election dinner. Then there is the printing of the average books and we have a nice book which up until last year had all of the Dallas bowlers in one book. The women and youth pulled out after the bowlers voted down the merger and now they have a paper covered book. Ours has not lost anything in quality so far.
One thing in Dallas getting in financial difficulties in recent years can also be accredited to the lose of membership combined with the increase in costs. We have not given the empoyees a raise in some time that I am aware of, but who has gotten a raise lately.
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If your association is large enough to warrent an office space then you need rent. You need to pay all utilities. You need to pay insurance. You need to pay an association manager and/or assistent. All dispersement of USBC and Local awards are at the cost of the local association. Flyers, materials and man power to fun your city/local tournaments. All average verifications. Your local dues go towards that.
You also get local awards in some associations. But they are very expensive and may be discontinued.
In most cases National Convention delegates are also given a stipend for attending the convention. Most years our association does not have enough money to send our allouted amount of delegates.
Your local association also 100%, takes care of all center certifications and zero lineage as well as all the equipment it takes to do this job. National contributes NOTHING to those tasks.
If you are paying $20 and $10 goes to National, there is also the possibility of dues going to your state association. That's probably $1 or so.
Erin
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Nicanor, I would suggest that you fill out an application to be a local director and volunteer your time to assist your local association. Then you will get a small taste of what it takes to hold your local assoc. together. Just a small taste mind you, but a taste none the less. Even if you only get taken on for a 1 year term.
Erin
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I would like to get some recognition for the bowling that I do. I'm a 210, right in the middle of bowling 700's every week. I bowl once a week and sub. If I bowl a 700I think I've done a great thing. Is it so hard to get a patch or a yearend reward for what I do. I'd like to see my money mean something.
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If it wasn't for your $9 per year, you wouldn't have an association and therefore wouldn't be a sanctioned bowler where you bowl. Enough said.
No offense resbuzz, but 700s ain't sheet anymore.
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Toodles
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quote:
I believe the USBC also paid for the pro womens prize fund which of course comes from sanction fee
Because of financial woes, USBC announced it was withdrawing financial support for the PBA Women's Series, along with putting the USBC Women's Open on hiatus for 2011.
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I would say the ultimate answer would be to pad pockets. Whose pockets and where......that I dont know, but if investigated long enough, i'd say we'd see a substantial portion of that in pockets.
Not too many years back, information at my disposal indicated that a full 27 percent of the money sent to the national organization went FOR SALARIES of USBC staffers -- NOT COUNTING such things as office supplies, travel expenses, etc.
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quote:
Not too many years back, information at my disposal indicated that a full 27 percent of the money sent to the national organization went FOR SALARIES of USBC staffers -- NOT COUNTING such things as office supplies, travel expenses, etc.
I think the orginal query was about local dues, not National dues. The above posted response does not answer towards anything that local USBC dues would go to. And bowlers really have little to no input on Nationals dues except to put their local delegates to the convention with a NO vote for any National dues increase. Now if you do not go to your local annual meeting where delegates are voted in, then you have no reason to complain. Or if you are not a local director and thus have impact in how you local delegates vote on such things....well you still have no reason to complain.
Erin
Edited on 5/11/2010 1:38 AM
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A governing body is necessary to maintain the integrity of this sport. I would just like to see them consult with those footing the bill, through some sort of liaison. If they are taking our money we should have some way of inputting how it should be spent. Not on vacations, dinners, constructing huge instructional bowling centers in Texas we'd never be allowed to use even if we could get there in the first place.
If USBC would spend our money more wisely (instead of raising fees all the time and giving us less in return) maybe people wouldn't be so eager to see it fail. We do need them to regulate the sport. But maybe they are investing too much trying to make the sport way bigger than it ever actually could be anymore. It's not the sport of kings anymore, its the sport of the: barely able to afford it blue-collar type of individuals.
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bfb,
usbc hasn't raised national dues for many many years....
your local and state associations may have raised their dues. you'll have to check with your local and state board members as to what they are using the dues money for.
pete tredwell made a post on the first page of this thread of what usbc uses the national dues for.
while i have many issues with usbc, especially in the area of lack of communication, this is one area where i agree with them on in that they haven't raised national dues in years and that what we do get in return, check pete tredwell's post for what that includes, is actually quite a bit for what little they get.
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quote:
usbc hasn't raised national dues for many many years....
While this it true, it is only true because the delegates have not let them. For at least the last two years they wanted to raise the dues by $5.00 after vowing not to do so a few years ago. They want to raise fees (and generate cash anyway they can) because they are desperate for money right now.
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Thanks,
Paul Saunders
USBC Bronze Level Coach
http://bowling.psaunders.net
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Paul,
What you stated is not true. The proposal for a dues increase at the Convention two weeks ago came from the field. The USBC Board and staff recommended that it be voted down, and it was. If it had been approved, USBC staff would not have been obligated to implement the dues increase if it felt that the loss in membership would have offset the increased revenue.
Pete Tredwell
USBC Managing Director - Media
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quote:
Now if you do not go to your local annual meeting where delegates are voted in, then you have no reason to complain. Or if you are not a local director and thus have impact in how you local delegates vote on such things....well you still have no reason to complain.
I have personally attended 30 consecutive local association annual meetings. Further, although I've never been an association board member, I have attended a number of regular board meetings over the years, and I've also attended a fair number of ABC/USBC national conventions, as well.
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Paul,
What you stated is not true. The proposal for a dues increase at the Convention two weeks ago came from the field. The USBC Board and staff recommended that it be voted down, and it was. If it had been approved, USBC staff would not have been obligated to implement the dues increase if it felt that the loss in membership would have offset the increased revenue.
Pete Tredwell
USBC Managing Director - Media
Pete, Thank you for the correction and my apologies for the mistake.
So what is the USBC going to do to stem the tide of losing bowlers? I know locally, we lost over 300 youth bowlers in the Central Maryland association (compared with the year before).
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Thanks,
Paul Saunders
USBC Bronze Level Coach
http://bowling.psaunders.net
Edited on 5/11/2010 5:51 PM
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As you may have seen (or heard about) at Convention, the USBC is currently studying new membership products that will be tested next season and rolled out nationally in the Fall of 2011.
Pete Tredwell
USBC Managing Director-Media
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Reading through this post and others like it, I have a question for those of you not happy with USBC.
What would your plan be for how to make things better?
A caveat that I have always tried to follow is if we are going to bring up problems we need to bring solutions.
Mark
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Is "association manager" the same thing as "association president" or are we talking about the old field rep position?
I've been an association president before. I didn't get paid a thin dime, not that I ever sought pay for it. I did it because I love the sport.
Our local dues at the time went into putting on the local tournament, maintaining the book and paying for the equipment to properly inspect the lanes (meaning, buying tape, etc.). And on that last subject, the tape reader we had took a specific width of tape that conveniently caused it to be about 5x or 10x as expensive as garden-variety tape. Reminded me of the problem on Apollo 13 with the CO2 scrubbers being round in the command module and square in the LEM...
As for the old field reps, I remember looking up an employment ad for that once and the position paid around $32,000, which was more than I was making at the time at my "real" job. I was told by one of our association elders not to even waste my time applying for it, because even with the resume I had at the time, I would not get a call. It would be a very political deal, he told me. I applied anyway, and never heard anything. Had I been hired to do it, I was planning to approach it like an actual full-time job and really do something. The only time I met our field rep -- and I saw him exactly once in about 10 years -- he came to a local center, smoked about a carton of cigarettes in a half hour, told everyone we were doing a ****ty job in his opinion, then informed us we needed to buy him dinner.
My current association, thank God, is much different. We have a dozen or so very helpful volunteers. We give out a wide array of awards, and they're not just a bunch of cheap stuff. I use the pens they give out for high games and series as the pens my clients use to sign contracts. The stuff that's printed on them has led to a few conversations, which has allowed me to recruit people to the sport. Our association puts on multiple tournaments, has a strong relationship between adults and youth in the youth program, and goes way above and beyond.
The old association had some good people, just not enough. The current association is flush with great folks.
The problem with the whole system is that some associations -- and a large percentage of the national/regional organization -- don't want to recruit. Recruiting is hard. It is done face-to-face, and it takes a lot of sweat equity to do it right. There has been a lot of local and national money pi**ed away while the people who needed to be busting hump chose to sit there and do nothing. If that attitude doesn't change, and fast, the USBC will fold down into the BPAA and I don't see that as a good thing at all.
Jess
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Our local USBC is a manager and I believed paid. We also have a president, but I believe she is not paid.
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Nicanor (Ten On The Deck)
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Pete, Thank you for the insight! I look forward to the new changes and hope we can turn the membership numbers around!!
As for the other question, the association manager is like the secretary - they are responsible for all the sanctioning, the awards, the paperwork, etc. These people get paid for their services. The association president conducts the association's meetings and does a lot of other work themselves, but this is not a paid position...
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Thanks,
Paul Saunders
USBC Bronze Level Coach
http://bowling.psaunders.net
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quote:
Pete, Thank you for the insight! I look forward to the new changes and hope we can turn the membership numbers around!!
As for the other question, the association manager is like the secretary - they are responsible for all the sanctioning, the awards, the paperwork, etc. These people get paid for their services. The association president conducts the association's meetings and does a lot of other work themselves, but this is not a paid position...
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Thanks,
Paul Saunders
USBC Bronze Level Coach
http://bowling.psaunders.net
duh on my part...I should have remembered the association secretary. And yes, ours was paid.
Jess
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find out who the local association president and secy is and ask
I am a local assoc secy we get $16 a card
money goes to $10 to usbc assoc get $6
with that money
I get a small salary of $300 I turned more down I do it for the bowlers
I am not greedy and nobody wants to do it either.
then put in $500 for local assoc tournament
donate for youth league $100
some expenses for banquet ect $50
we are small assoc at 190 members so with $1140 that leaves about $200
a year for raining day fund.
so my money is account for
so ask your local officials were money goes
I do a balance at end of season or go to a meeting find out
I have nothing to hide
we just had a assoc next to me I sub in a center there about 1 hour
drive and just found out $10,000 missing from assoc checkbook
secy borrowed it I heard he paid it back.
there were you usbc money goes you could lower your card fee.
later Rex
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quote:
As you may have seen (or heard about) at Convention, the USBC is currently studying new membership products that will be tested next season and rolled out nationally in the Fall of 2011.
Pete Tredwell
USBC Managing Director-Media
Pete, I wish you and USBC luck in whatever new products you hint about, but it doesn't seem like anything that has been tried in 20 or 30 years has done anything to stem the tide of lost membership, so what could be significant now, and why hasn't some of those things been tried previously?
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"Don't worry about voting to ram this bill down their throats. The stupid, idiotic American voters will forget by the time November comes around."
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The pool of league bowlers has become more diverse over the years, in terms of their level of competitiveness. We can't expect that the competitive tournament bowler will want the same thing out of USBC as the social recreational bowler. We plan to rectify that situation by providing new membership products that are more targeted. Again, we're still in the research stage, but we can't keep doing the same thing, as we watch membership continue to decline.
Pete Tredwell
USBC Managing Director - Media
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Pete, again I wish you and USBC luck, but it just seems like if there could be a way to reverse membership losses it would have been done sometime in the last 20 or 30 years.
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"Don't worry about voting to ram this bill down their throats. The stupid, idiotic American voters will forget by the time November comes around."