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Author Topic: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?  (Read 1611 times)

ksucat

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Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« on: September 14, 2004, 09:50:01 AM »
I eagerly waited in anticipation of what should have been a classic matchup of premier bowlers in my Monday scratch league right next to me.  While I didn't want to distract from my play, I was giddy knowing that I had a front row seat.  These guys are not merely local wanna be's, but truly proven champions of the highest calibur.  What I witnessed, for the most part, was a joke to league bowling.  Most of these guys didn't seem to care about winning there individual points much less the team points.  Even all the side bets didn't seem to get the competitive juices flowing in a couple of them for very long.  I almost wondered if the lights were going to be turned off and loud music would start up judging by all the clowning around.  

I realize that even a competitive scratch league pales in comparison to what some of these guys have fought for on the lanes, but is this just another indicator of how insignificant leagues are these days?  I'm just a hack, but I still enjoy bowling league and trying to win even if my competition has far less skills.  If I want to play around, then I'll just drag in one ball and shoes and have a good time with friends tossing the old orb at some funny sticks.  I wouldn't bother lugging 4+ balls around, paying high cost league fees, getting in brackets, betting with others, playing Keglers Cash just to screw around.

I know we've discussed the downfall of leagues before, but as a fan, I can't tell you how disappointed I was last night.  I can remember following Dad to the bowling alley to watch and admire the best our home town had to offer.  How often do we see that now?  The little kid in me weeps on this day.

 

janderson

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2004, 06:33:38 PM »
I'm not sure we can contribute all of what you witnessed specifically to a lack of interest in league bowling.  There are other factors at work.

Consider the waning interest in team competition. At least in the United Status, emphasis and attention seems to be more focused on individual performance and achievement.  Witness the birth and popularity of "X-Games" for today's youth versus the popularity of baseball, football, and other team sports 30-40 years ago.  Even within bowling itself, the "big" tournaments are individual tournaments.

Look at the prize fund distributions for most leagues, even scratch leagues.  It seems that leagues need to give money to even the last place team (and sometimes a good chunk of change) to keep teams from leaving.  The days of 20-team leagues where only the top 1-3 teams get all the money seem to be long gone.  Path of least resistance - why bother trying to win that game?  If we move up a place in the standings, we get a whole $25 more for the team.

Bowling itself doesn't enjoy the prestige it once held.  More and more, it is viewed as a game rather than a sport.  To say someone is great bowler doesn't mean as much as saying someone is a great football player.  Does this contribute to the lack of pride in winning at bowling when prize funds mean nothing?

Aside from all of the negatives above, sometimes "upper crust" players don't show their competitive nature as much on the outside as others.  "When you get to the endzone, don't act like it's the first time you've ever been there".  All PDW-crotch-chopping aside (another topic entirely) many top players espouse this philosophy - succeed with grace/fail with grace, never let them see you sweat.

Casual joking around can keep you loose, and even hard-core competitors can relax when they're not on the lane, especially when they're competing against someone they've butted heads with for years.

Just some thoughts.

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Edited on 9/14/2004 6:25 PM

TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2004, 09:23:31 PM »
I truly dont know. My league(s) never have a competetive side to it! Everyones just kind of blah. SCREW THAT, I wanna bowl against someone not with someone!
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yoder978

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2004, 10:09:22 PM »
the travel league i bowl in is still very competitive. last year the high average race came down to me and 3 other people during the last week of bowling. all four of us are good friends but believe me there was no sorrow felt for one another when one of us opened. but the other 2 leagues i bowl in are a joke. i bowl in jr. leagues and the 2 that are not travel are horrible. i just bowl to practice on my focus because all i ever hear is "look he has the first four." for me it is no big deal and yet they annoy me about it time and time again. i think the only competitive times in bowling are in tournaments now. i know people who carry 6-10 balls for a tournament but when they show up for a league they only bring two and on top of that they just heave it down the lane without much care sometimes. i would like to see a league become just like major scratch tournaments and everyone is out to beat the other guys on there pair and everyone else on the league that night.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2004, 10:30:24 PM »
KSUCAT,

It has gotten to a point to where "competitive" league bowling is a lose lose situation.  If the scratch bowlers partake in "blood and guts" style of bowling, they are labeled egomaniacs and primadonnas.  Other bowlers can't stand to bowl against them or even next to them, and in some cases, teammates can't hardly stand one another.  I am a classic example of this.  If I slapped out a shot once in awhile or waggle my pointing finger towards the pins, I am labeled as cocky or arrogant.  If I show absolutely no emotion, now people think I just stopped caring.  Half the scratch bowlers out there bowl more for the brackets than anything.  I had a team where our team average was 1120, which was by far the highest team average in the league.  By the end of the second third, every one of us was standing in a different spot of the bowling center between shots.  We had a couple guys on the team that got into 40 brackets a night.  Even if they were bowling well, if they were getting beat in the brackets, they developed a temper and it ruined their night.  One of them would even scream obscenities while shooting 740+.  They did not care about winning the games half as much as those brackets.  Oh, yeah.  We also ended up finishing 3rd in the league.  

Some other problems with "competitive" league bowling, is that we spend $20 or even $25 a night to bowl and the prize funds suck, because you still get those 5-10 teams of 180 average bowlers who have NO confidence in themselves to think they can actually win the league, so they vote on the worst prize fund so as to ensure that if they do finish towards the bottom, they still get some money back.  I went through this last night actually.  The league voted on a prize fund where instead of voting on the one that had $2000 to win each third, they voted on the one that got only $1100 to win each third.  

And, finally, the last problem with "competitive" league bowling, is that the bowlers who should be labeled as cocky, are those who get 30 pins a game and walk around the center like they are some god.  Let's take last night as an example yet once again.  I shot 640 on a shot that was not that easy to put it mildly.  I was up against a guy who was getting 25 pins a game.  SO....I shoot 640 and he shoots 570 and I lose 3 out of 4 points and this guy is just talking up a storm like he just waxed me from one end of the house to the other.  What is really sad about that is that he is using a 15 year old Purple Hammer and spraying the ball from off the corner and he is getting a few brooklyn hits to go his way while I hit the 1-3 pocket 32 out of 36 shots and stick 10 corner pins with a couple 9s and 4s mixed in.  So, naturally, he is walking around with a swagger like his crap don't stink.  It would have done no good to tell the guy to pull his money out and bowl straight up, because he would have just packed his crap and walked out the door.  He even made a comment about the one point I did get from him, so I responded by telling him that I average 35 pins higher than he does and in my mind, I am supposed to win, and a heck of a lot more than just 1 out of 4 points.  I do not normally act that way, but after 3 hours of hearing his mouth, I was finally tired of it and said something back.

For all of the reasons above, league bowling in general is going downhill in a hurry and being dominated by handicap bowlers.  Scratch leagues are falling by the wayside because lineage is getting way too high and the handicap bowlers are always crying because they do not think that they get enough handicap to compete even if they are getting 25-30 pins a game.  Once they raise the handicap, the scratch bowlers are leaving because of it.  Scratch bowlers are out for one thing and that is making money.  Thanks to SOME bowling centers and most handicap bowlers, making money is ALMOST a thing of the past.  If you think I am kidding, just take a look at the number of ABC memberships year by year for the last 15 years.
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Steven Vance
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Pinbuster

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2004, 08:45:27 AM »
Ksucat – I sure I know who you are talking about. It’s funny how attitudes have changed on this over the last 30 years. Tom went in every night not just bowling against the other team but the whole league. He felt he was better than everyone in the league and wanted everyone to see that he was. Arrogant? Yes, but he almost always backed it up.

30 years ago the difference between the 210 the top bowler carried and 200 the other good bowlers carried was huge. Go in to a pot game and the 210 guy would win 80% of the pots. The best virtually always won. You never saw a 185 average at that time beating a group of 200+ average bowlers in pot games. But today 205 average bowlers can beat 230 average bowlers and that is a lot the reason for the drop in pot games, the best don’t necessarily win.

Today it is so much about matching up (particularly on easy house shots like that) that anyone within 20 pins can beat the best. The best have trivialized league play because of that. But I still don’t understand why they don’t want to go out and show everyone in the league why they are bowling on tour and the rest are not.

While both are PBA champs, between the two I’m thinking of, I know which one I believe is the better bowler but I’m not sure he can show it on that type of shot. The difference is small enough between them either can win. But if you look at the last few years PBA results you know who is best on more challenging conditions.

I don’t know how big that league is this year but you probably have close to 100 bowlers in the league with virtually everyone averaging 200+ with the top in the 230’s. But on that easy of a shot anyone can beat anyone if they simply have the better carry that night.
Everyone is going to string strikes so the winner is determined when and how often the string is busted up by taps or whether you happen to trip a four pin or carry a Brooklyn

Pinbuster

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2004, 08:55:48 AM »
TWOHANDED834 – First I’ll guarantee you that the vast, vast majority of the drop in ABC membership has not been from the scratch bowlers arena but the lower average handicap league bowler.

Second everyone on top wants the money on the top, why wouldn’t they. But would you bowl in a league, year after year, paying $25 a week and know that you had NO CHANCE! No chance of winning any prize money. Don’t just say get better or that is the price they pay because without those types of teams scratch leagues wouldn’t survive at all and that is some of the reason you see so many disappearing. The donators are tired of donating. You have to throw them some bones to keep them donating.

The money should be top heavy but you have to give the lower end back some or they will leave.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2004, 03:31:30 AM »
Pinbuster,

It is a difference of opinion in what vast majority of bowlers have left the scene probably due to where you reside.  All I know is that where I live, we have 4.5 million people and I believe ONE scratch league.  Then, the centers that are trying to floor scratch leagues are the centers that have been around for 40 years and have trouble just keeping their air conditioner running.  In todays society, a 200, maybe 210 bowler is still considered a handicap bowler.  Back in 1997, we HAD a good scratch league here filled up a 40 lane house.  There were a total of 160 bowlers.  210 was 75th on the high average list.  That league has since folded due to high lineage and stupid GMs.  A particular corporation, which will remain nameless, cares more about their pockets more than the bowlers themselves.  Don't try to tell me otherwise because I should know and in fact do know from personal experience.

As far as bowlers leaving, the handicappers won't leave just for the simple fact that here, they get the same results no matter where they bowl.  They pay 10.50, or even 11.00 a night in lineage which translates to paying basically $700+ a year per league to get, as you put it, no money back.  HOWEVER....scratch bowlers will jump from center to center because they understand that they CAN make money bowling anywhere they choose to go.  Handicap bowlers do not like jumping from place to place for the reason that it is not worth it to them to travel longer distances just to finish in the bottom half of the league.  When it comes to the prize funds, who honestly joins a league with the intent of finishing outside the top 4?  So, why wouldn't you want to put the most money in the rolloffs?  Here is a perfect option for all you guys out there.  I have bowled in 2 leagues (one league in 2 different seasons) where we finished 1st in one third and won the league rolloffs.  The first league we got back $800 a man.  Couple years later, different league, different center, made back $2,500 a man.  Both leagues were 4 man teams with 20 teams in the league and, oh yes, paying $20 a night.  Anybody can chime in on which league they would have gone back to the following season.  

I know scenarios vary in different cities.  I am just explaining what happens in mine.  I just think that the decline in bowlers is because there are too many handicap leagues where you pay a fortune and get back nothing.
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Steven Vance
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Pinbuster

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2004, 09:09:07 AM »
When even 25 years ago when the ABC membership was at 4+ million I doubt over 10% would have been considered scratch bowlers. With bowling membership fewer than 2 million a lot more than scratch players have left the game. The 10% number probably still holds pretty true so I would guess the decline by AVERAGE is proportional but maybe the serious scratch bowlers’ percentage has declined.

We have about 450,000 in the metro area. I know of at least 3 scratch leagues there are probably more.

One is a three person league and I believe the team averages are capped. It has generally had around 30 teams.

The second is a 5 person league that is capped. I’m not sure of the size of this league, I’m guessing around 12 teams.

The third is a traveling 5 person with no cap. This league is currently at 14 teams. This league use to be housed at one location but when that house closed it started traveling. Fees are $20 a week for 32 weeks.

We have a lot of scratch bowling talent around here with the college programs.

I’ve known lots of teams that have belonged to leagues for years both handicap and scratch that have had no chance of finishing in the top 4.
 
I have bowled in the 5 person uncapped league for 20 years.  I have been on teams that have finished first and have finished near the bottom. There had always been a core of about 7 teams and then we had 5 teams that were in a constant state of flux. These lower teams tended to bowl for a year or two and then quit when they couldn’t be competitive although there is one team that has hung on for about 10 years.

We have had teams come in thinking they could dominate and left after a year with their tails between their legs and some have come in a done well but I can think of only one in 20 years that came in and won the league and most of those bowlers had bowled in the league in the past on various other teams.

The money in this league is not very top heavy. You win the league and you’ll probably get about $700 a person back. The last place team will get around $150 to $200 per team member. But most are going for the prestige of winning the best scratch league in town.

If you took away all the prize money for the teams 5 thru 14 I would guarantee you that at least 6 teams would quit maybe more and you would end up with about the same prize money available for the top teams. These teams are putting in about $400 a man into the prize fund during the year and are averaging getting less than half of it back.  

Without some corporate sponsorship you can’t get enough money from league fees to pay “top” dollar to the winners without leaving the lower echelon teams high and dry and I believe they will quit in that scenario.


 

ksucat

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2004, 02:06:42 PM »
In my example, the one exempt pro on the lanes showed true class and professionalism as he always does.  While his demeanor is low key and he was having fun off the lanes, I could see the fire in his eyes on the approach.  He may not have been giving everything, but he was definitely taking the game seriously.  The others were very good players with one being a top-flight amateur.  To different degrees, these guys were just playing around.  I guess I was offended that they considered this league so trivial.  If they want to see who can hook the ball coast to coast, pick up the worst splits, leave the most pins and still hit the head pin, etc., then do it after league.  I'll laugh right along side then, but at least treat your fellow league members with a little respect.  I admit that these guys are better bowlers, but even when I bowl against others of even less skill than me, I do not demean their efforts and abilities.    

I guess I look at league fees a little different than some.  I think that with some corporate sponsorship and at least 10 teams paying a decent amount towards prize fund, the first place team should make all their money back at the end of the year.  The last place team should still get some back so that it really doesn't cost that much more than a no prize fund league.  As I said, this will take some outside money to work.

Those individuals who want to risk more should have the opportunity to put up extra money in some form of side pots.  These should be optional, but promoted and encouraged.

Uncle Remus

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Re: Where has the competitive fire gone in league bowling?
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2004, 04:29:04 PM »
being that it was the first night back may have something to do with it. seeing people you haven't seen all summer may make it a little more social than normal. i'm sure they are not putting up their money and not trying.