Author Topic: Why are some drillers secretive? (Read 4104 times)

FBM357 · « **on:** October 10, 2004, 04:37:33 PM »

One would honestly think a driller would benefit from knowing the specs of a bowler. He'd also benefit from the bowler being knowledgeable about himself as well. Reason for my question is this, I questioned my driller, whom I never had a problem, concerning how I want my Nemesis drilled. Of course, the first thing he said was "how do you want the ball to react?" After a brief discussion, I asked more questions (i.e. PAP, axis tilt, etc.) soon after, to my surprise, I was met with "half" answers. I know he was busy et al, but it really appeared as though he does the bulk of his work drilling balls according to the way people want them to react instead of being questioned about their specs. Is it a matter of insecurity? One would think a bowler KNOWING his/her own game would make matters a bit easier, no?

What's your relationship like with your driller?

Vernon
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Caring people make a difference!!! All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

BAPS_Eric · « **Reply #16 on:** October 11, 2004, 01:24:32 PM »

Rule #1....The customer is always right......Rule #2 Even if the customer might be wrong.....refer back to Rule #1

.....Even if a customer's spec sheet is different that they may bring into me than the one I have.....I will drill it up for them they way they want......I mean comfort is the BIGGEST THING IN BOWLING!!!....Other than rolling a 900 that is

.....

FBM357 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 11, 2004, 01:48:20 PM »

quote:
On the original question. I'd say not 5% of my customers, even the very best bowlers, even know what a PAP is. And the 5% that do are because I've told them. I've taken a two day class on pro shop work, and have spent a LOT of time here and on other web sites, trying to learn more about what affects ball reaction. You asked your driller questions that he (and this most certainly applies to me) is not sure about. And that only marginally, if at all, affect ball layouts. Now, he doesn't want to appear to lack knowledge, so he gives a "half" answer. You may very well know more about the subject than he does! This doesn't affect his ability to give you a good fit and layout.

I'm not in disagreement with what you're saying. Neither am I questioning the ability to properly provide a good fit. I ask about "me" because a) as a above avg. bowler, I take a strong interest in MY game; b) I've a right because I pay; c) understanding. What good is someone who performs a service for you yet can't answer a question you may have? That's all I'm saying. Not testing/challenging your knowledge but heck, I would think the driller would take pride in what he/she does.
--------------------
Caring people make a difference!!! All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

T-GOD · « **Reply #18 on:** October 11, 2004, 01:54:59 PM »

Scott, yes, I will take the ball back and drill him a new ball. I will in turn sell the original ball for cost or more to someone else. =:^D

scotts33 · « **Reply #19 on:** October 11, 2004, 01:57:17 PM »

Good to hear T-God. You not only talk and the talk but walk the walk. So many don't.

Scott

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #20 on:** October 11, 2004, 01:58:42 PM »

Like T-God says, he's the doctor.

IF you trust him you don't need to get into his shorts.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS if you don't, get a new one that you do trust. Also I did bowl my best when I let my guy just drill for me. Do I now probably know as much as he does? Probably but also
I now know in certain areas I understand where he made mistakes(mostly in bevel) that made a couple of balls not react as great as they could of. But I still respect his ability and his knowledge.
PPS To go a little further sometimes I'll bring a ball to him and just say.
"Using these span specs just drill any pattern you want. My goal with this ball is....." "He may even ask me for a picture of the core and the specs"

Often the result is very pleasing. In addition I do a bunch of my own stuff!

Pinbuster · « **Reply #21 on:** October 11, 2004, 02:13:27 PM »

T-god â€“ We would do the same but with one caveat. If we warned them against a ball and/or drill and/or grip and/or etc, etc and the customer insisted that was what they wanted then we washed our hands of the performance of the ball.

We would tweak the cover and do grip adjustments (bevel, hole size, etc) but wouldnâ€™t replace the ball.

It was amazing how many times grandpa with his 12 mph ball speed wanted a 16lb swamp monster because someone else was killing them with one and his ball would roll out at the arrows. You explain your position and if they decide to go against you then it is on them.

T-GOD · « **Reply #22 on:** October 11, 2004, 02:20:54 PM »

Pin, yes, you're correct. If I make a suggestion on a ball and/or drilling, and the customer wants something different, he'll get what he want's.

But like you stated, I wash my hands of any free gratis repairs if the ball/drilling doesn't do what the customer wants/expected it to do.

My decisions/recommendations are guaranteed, not the customers..!! =:^D

JohnP · « **Reply #23 on:** October 11, 2004, 04:45:27 PM »

Debina -- I would take the ball back to the original driller and make him measure the pitches while I watched. Then I would ask him why he didn't follow my instructions. Then ask him to plug and redrill the hole at no cost (sounds like you had the ball too long to seriously request a replacement). When I picked it up, it would be the last time I ever entered his shop. -- JohnP

T-GOD · « **Reply #24 on:** October 11, 2004, 05:15:29 PM »

Debina, your driller should put a thumb slug in for free, to correct the pitches. This way the ball won't have a plug in it. =:^D

tenpinspro · « **Reply #25 on:** October 11, 2004, 05:29:38 PM »

Hey Debina,

I'm with John P, take the ball back and have him show you the pitches in front of you. You paid for this and you should have the right to see it done in front of you. If they are incorrect like the other shop stated, have him plug and redrill it. I personally show pitches and span to any of my customers who ask and even for some who don't ask. Then like John says, I wouldn't go back there.

Bones & Pinbuster, you guys make valid points but I thought we we're in agreement from various discussions that the modern bowler is no longer as versatile(as we had to be) and have become one-dimensional in the game. If this is true, then wouldn't specific patterns be an asset to that person? Just want your thoughts on that...

We're also bringing up exceptional bowlers, Walter Ray and so on. I was even told a few years back that Mike Aulby never knew his pap. For bowlers of the higher skill level, then I'd definitely agree. I'm thinking more about the typical house guy who has the right match up in his hands to let him average 200+ and be happy.

PS. Plastics are also my lowest profit margin balls, maybe $25-$30 for jr discounts.
--------------------
Rick Leong
Ten Pins Pro Shop
Track Intl. - Amateur/Pro Shop Staff
Vise Inserts Staff

Pinbuster · « **Reply #26 on:** October 11, 2004, 06:00:58 PM »

Sure certain patterns will be better for some bowlers. Most have a favorite pattern for their go to ball.

I use different patterns combined with different ball surface, cores to gain a desired roll on a specific condition. I have 3 of these balls.

But I also have a couple of patterns that I use for most of my â€œnormalâ€ league conditions. One is skid/snap and the other is more of an arc. I have 4 of these in my arsenal.

But if someone comes and ask for a specific hook shape/ball reaction then there are generally only a couple of options on a given ball to give that reaction. If you donâ€™t know the bowlers game, looking at an existing ball for track information and a few simple questions you can generally determine which pattern should work best.

But the lanes I bowl on you couldnâ€™t use the same ball all night on the same line simply by changing drills. You would have to adjust your feet and line some.

Iâ€™m not really sure that even to going to urethane would work very well as these dry out enough that urethane jumps early in the track area.

Nollster · « **Reply #27 on:** October 12, 2004, 08:56:10 AM »

My driller has been more than patient with me since I started back a year ago. He's endured my questions (Why doesn't my Truck hook as much as my X-Factor?!?!?

) as my level of understanding has grown leaps and bounds from last October when I bought my first new ball (a used Truck) to my first NEW new ball (Sonic X) through my more advanced balls -- most of which I've bought used or traded golf stuff for. He does all my little "this doesn't feel quite right" fixes (mostly gratis) and willingly slugged and reslugged my thumbs as we try to chart the swelling and shrinking of that damnable appendage. He is a saint in my eyes, yet the one thing we can't agree on is my span -- I think it's too short and he tells me that's they way we drill balls now. I'm thinking of having another driller take a look at it, but feel like I'm cheating!! I don't know what I should do....

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #28 on:** October 12, 2004, 09:07:22 AM »

Nollster,

It's funny how we feel about our drillers.

If you have a ball drilled by another guy you hide it?

Finally I broke down and confessed. I had cheated, I'd moved to another town and shouldn't have! I would never do it again! He sulked he cried, he took my credit card for a ride of unnecessary tape, ball cleaners, oil extractions, 3 new wrist braces, a few slug and regrips a refinish and then he reluctantly took me back!

Sound anything like your relationship with your girlfriend!?

REgards,

Luckylefty

Nollster · « **Reply #29 on:** October 12, 2004, 09:20:19 AM »

quote:
Nollster,

It's funny how we feel about our drillers.

If you have a ball drilled by another guy you hide it?

Finally I broke down and confessed. I had cheated, I'd moved to another town and shouldn't have! I would never do it again! He sulked he cried, he took my credit card for a ride of unnecessary tape, ball cleaners, oil extractions, 3 new wrist braces, a few slug and regrips a refinish and then he reluctantly took me back!

Sound anything like your relationship with your girlfriend!?

REgards,

Luckylefty

BINGO!!!

tenpinspro · « **Reply #30 on:** October 12, 2004, 09:42:31 AM »

Hey Nollster/LL,

You guys are very nice and have a good sense of loyalty but even I understand when some of my customers go to Nats and there are just some deals that can't be passed up(on the last day). I had one of my customers actually call me and tell me there was a high end ball he could pick up for $140 drilled, I told him to get it, even helped him with the layout. Yes, I would lose money but I couldn't stop a friend/customer from saving money at the same time. It's not fair to you guys either...I'll try my best to go halfway and that's how I try to keep a good relationship with my guys.

Rick

Author Topic: Why are some drillers secretive? (Read 4104 times)

FBM357

Why are some drillers secretive?

BAPS_Eric

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

FBM357

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

T-GOD

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

scotts33

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

LuckyLefty

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

Pinbuster

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

T-GOD

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

JohnP

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

T-GOD

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

tenpinspro

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

Pinbuster

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

Nollster

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

LuckyLefty

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

Nollster

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?

tenpinspro

Re: Why are some drillers secretive?