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Author Topic: The urethane craze on the PBA  (Read 16968 times)

bowler100

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The urethane craze on the PBA
« on: November 02, 2021, 12:57:19 PM »
How could the PBA manipulate their oil patterns to make them less urethane friendly? Make them longer? Reduce the lengthwise taper? It is even possible to completely take urethane out of play? What are your thoughts?

 

TWOHAND834

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #31 on: December 27, 2021, 07:24:45 AM »
I think Rashes heavy end over end roll would match up great with urethane, especially the way he likes to play some patterns

I think so as well. He already cups the ball as much if not more than the guys in the 80s and can create the drive that they did. I mean, even back in that day for me, if I didn't snap the wrist around and swing the ball like Amleto, I stayed behind the ball to not put as much side rotation on it as I could, and brought my target on the lane closer to me, causing the ball to get into an earlier roll. That effectively was the game back then: if you didn't give away the pocket, you played up the boards.

Rash could do the same with a Rubicon: He has the ability to create the revs like Svensson, and the ability to play outside and not move, like WRW or Duke. Then he can dominate with urethane and leave the complaints to being about the helicopter spinning guys that take the oil out of play.   :P ::)

BL.


Rash is a very different player than he was 10 years ago.  His rev rate has come down considerably and what makes him so good now is his ability to adjust his speed to compensate for the drop in rev rate and where he is playing on the lane.  Almost willing to bet his rev rate was in that 475-500 area 10 years ago and now it is 400-425.  I have a feeling we are going to see more of him on TV this year now that there is a urethane that will match up to his game now.
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BeerLeague

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #32 on: February 09, 2022, 08:25:41 AM »
Urethane is great when you need to control the backends... which you don't need to do in your house wall shot league.  The issue for me becomes when people who watch too much TV bring their Purple Hammer or Pitch Black to a china league and effectively destroy the scoring pace for everyone while they shoot 490. 

Gene J Kanak

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2022, 11:54:27 AM »
Currently, I have three urethane balls in the bag, a UC3, a Purple Hammer, and a Pitch Black. Now, to be clear, only one of those typically comes to league with me, and that's the Pitch Black because I use it for spares.

I don't use urethane on our house shot because it just doesn't make a lot of sense to do so. I use urethane when I need quick traction and control all the way down the lane. Our house shot is your typical medium volume, medium length pattern, so using the UC3 or the Purple Hammer would mean having to stand way left and fighting to get it down the lane due to how early they want to dig in. That leads to silly angles, little forgiveness, and a lot of frustration on my part.

Now, I could probably get away with using my Pitch Black as a strike ball if I wanted to use a rolly hand position and stay up the lane all night. Again though, I don't because that would almost be like playing defense when, to me, typical house shots should be all about attack mode from the very first ball.

All of this being said, I have the right to use whatever I want to use regardless of what it does to the scoring pace for others. Okay, maybe I should ask myself if what I'm doing will mess up my teammates seeing as how I'm bowling for a team. Still, at the end of the day, I'm there to put up the best score that I can. If I honestly think that my best look comes from using urethane, then I have the right to use it just like someone else may choose to use a 360-grit solid asym. right up the track.

As bowlers, we need to stop acting like the other guys and gals on the pair owe it to us to think about where and how we want to play the lanes when making decisions about where and how they want to play the lanes. Is it frustrating when you know that someone is doing something silly/foolish, sure. I get that. Still, they have the right to bowl their game. It's not their responsibility to worry about whether or not I can score.

Strider

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2022, 12:40:40 PM »
My teammate uses a pretty dull Purple Hammer about 70% of the time during our sport/challenge pattern league.  The only time I've had issue is when I'm throwing right on top of his line.  Usually by the end of game 1 I'll need to move somewhere else.  But as a whole I'm having one of my best years.  I haven't let his ball use bother me or get in my head.  Bowling is about adjusting, whether it from drying heads from dull reactive balls or carry down from urethane.  If you're thinking about what ball "X" is doing to the lane, you're already fighting an uphill battle.

Bo.Wler

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2022, 05:46:54 PM »
Currently, I have three urethane balls in the bag, a UC3, a Purple Hammer, and a Pitch Black. Now, to be clear, only one of those typically comes to league with me, and that's the Pitch Black because I use it for spares.

I don't use urethane on our house shot because it just doesn't make a lot of sense to do so. I use urethane when I need quick traction and control all the way down the lane. Our house shot is your typical medium volume, medium length pattern, so using the UC3 or the Purple Hammer would mean having to stand way left and fighting to get it down the lane due to how early they want to dig in. That leads to silly angles, little forgiveness, and a lot of frustration on my part.

Now, I could probably get away with using my Pitch Black as a strike ball if I wanted to use a rolly hand position and stay up the lane all night. Again though, I don't because that would almost be like playing defense when, to me, typical house shots should be all about attack mode from the very first ball.

All of this being said, I have the right to use whatever I want to use regardless of what it does to the scoring pace for others. Okay, maybe I should ask myself if what I'm doing will mess up my teammates seeing as how I'm bowling for a team. Still, at the end of the day, I'm there to put up the best score that I can. If I honestly think that my best look comes from using urethane, then I have the right to use it just like someone else may choose to use a 360-grit solid asym. right up the track.

As bowlers, we need to stop acting like the other guys and gals on the pair owe it to us to think about where and how we want to play the lanes when making decisions about where and how they want to play the lanes. Is it frustrating when you know that someone is doing something silly/foolish, sure. I get that. Still, they have the right to bowl their game. It's not their responsibility to worry about whether or not I can score.

I agree with you. If what you are throwing is that big of an issue for the people you are bowling against. Then the people you are not nearly as good at bowling as they think they are.


Its not your fault if they can't adjust.

bowling_rebel

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2022, 12:59:07 AM »
With that in mind, I have a Fast Pitch that doesn't flare, maybe I'll just bring it to league for no other reason than to mess other people up.

JessN16

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2022, 02:00:49 AM »





I agree with you. If what you are throwing is that big of an issue for the people you are bowling against. Then the people you are not nearly as good at bowling as they think they are.


Its not your fault if they can't adjust.

Yep, and it cuts both ways. The last time I bowled a league that DIDN'T have regular plastic-throwers on it was a PBAX scratch league 10 years ago. Ever since, I've either had to contend with older folks throwing plastic because of ball speed issues, or beginners piping Mixes and TZones up fourth arrow because that's the only shot they have. So it's not just bowlers of a higher skill level "messing up" the shot for average bowlers with urethane, it's the lower-end bowlers making life tougher on the higher-average bowlers with plastic and/or spraying the ball all over creation.

It's our job to solve the riddle.

Jesse James

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2022, 08:14:22 AM »





I agree with you. If what you are throwing is that big of an issue for the people you are bowling against. Then the people you are not nearly as good at bowling as they think they are.


Its not your fault if they can't adjust.

Yep, and it cuts both ways. The last time I bowled a league that DIDN'T have regular plastic-throwers on it was a PBAX scratch league 10 years ago. Ever since, I've either had to contend with older folks throwing plastic because of ball speed issues, or beginners piping Mixes and TZones up fourth arrow because that's the only shot they have. So it's not just bowlers of a higher skill level "messing up" the shot for average bowlers with urethane, it's the lower-end bowlers making life tougher on the higher-average bowlers with plastic and/or spraying the ball all over creation.

It's our job to solve the riddle.

I agree with this totally. Just bowled on a league shot that completely disappeared by the third game. Old teetotaling anchor was throwing a super shiny ball straight up 10. His lead off guy throwing a Fatal Venom from start to finish up 13, and his middle guy spinning a shiny ball from the 90's all over the place. I went from 225-258 to 166 as none of my balls could make the corner suddenly. Moving right.......back into the beat up traffic area only lead to a lot of head scratching leaves!
Some days you're the bug....some days you're the windshield...that's bowling!

bcw1969

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2022, 08:34:51 AM »
Amazing how the philosophy has changed from just 15 years ago. Came across thios post from Bill at Buddies proshop while search for something unrelated to this topic.

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 08:05:14 AM »
Quote
A true urethane ball is not needed in today's game.  The bowlers that think that Urethane is the answer need different layouts and need to learn to adjust. 

Wet/Dry and Over/Under lane condition can be matched pretty easy using the proper layouts. 

How often do you see guys on the tour throwing Urethane on the show?  Do you think that your carry percentage will be as high using an old Burdgandy Hammer versus someone throwing a No Mercy?
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Apparently the prevailing thought processes have changed over time. I find that interesting.

Brad

avabob

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2022, 08:52:59 AM »
I think part of what has happened is that rev rates have gotten so high that it has put urethane back in the game as a way to control the back end on the flat patterns.  Also the purple hammer woke up a lot of guys on tour.

I am just an old over the hill low speed stroke but I take my purple hammer every place.  Not much good on a house shot except for maybe 1 game but useful on shorter sport patterns.  Also I have urethane in my bag since the natural came out.  Made money with it and blue hammer remake. 

Jesse James

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2022, 11:41:08 AM »
Amazing how the philosophy has changed from just 15 years ago. Came across thios post from Bill at Buddies proshop while search for something unrelated to this topic.

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 08:05:14 AM »
Quote
A true urethane ball is not needed in today's game.  The bowlers that think that Urethane is the answer need different layouts and need to learn to adjust. 

Wet/Dry and Over/Under lane condition can be matched pretty easy using the proper layouts. 

How often do you see guys on the tour throwing Urethane on the show?  Do you think that your carry percentage will be as high using an old Burdgandy Hammer versus someone throwing a No Mercy?
--------------------
Thanks,
Bill
BowlingBallReviews.com


Apparently the prevailing thought processes have changed over time. I find that interesting.

Brad

@ Brad.....the thought process has changed because the PBA has changed. So many two-handers and powerful guys with speed and high rev rates that high volume oil patterns no longer became a problem at all.

So the PBA went in the other direction. Flatter patterns and low volume oil patterns that the high rev guys would completely tear up, and tear down if they DIDN'T use urethane. Urethane pieces along with balls that have the SPEC technology just don't absorb oil as fast as regular resin pieces, thus allowing the PBA guys to preserve the pattern and customize/manicure the pattern as needed to give them hold.

These newer PBA patterns put more emphasis on accuracy and ball speed regulation.
What's new is old...and what's old becomes new again!
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milorafferty

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2022, 12:05:14 PM »
Amazing how the philosophy has changed from just 15 years ago. Came across thios post from Bill at Buddies proshop while search for something unrelated to this topic.

Re: would you buy this ball if Hammer made it?
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 08:05:14 AM »
Quote
A true urethane ball is not needed in today's game.  The bowlers that think that Urethane is the answer need different layouts and need to learn to adjust. 

Wet/Dry and Over/Under lane condition can be matched pretty easy using the proper layouts. 

How often do you see guys on the tour throwing Urethane on the show?  Do you think that your carry percentage will be as high using an old Burdgandy Hammer versus someone throwing a No Mercy?
--------------------
Thanks,
Bill
BowlingBallReviews.com


Apparently the prevailing thought processes have changed over time. I find that interesting.

Brad

@ Brad.....the thought process has changed because the PBA has changed. So many two-handers and powerful guys with speed and high rev rates that high volume oil patterns no longer became a problem at all.

So the PBA went in the other direction. Flatter patterns and low volume oil patterns that the high rev guys would completely tear up, and tear down if they DIDN'T use urethane. Urethane pieces along with balls that have the SPEC technology just don't absorb oil as fast as regular resin pieces, thus allowing the PBA guys to preserve the pattern and customize/manicure the pattern as needed to give them hold.

These newer PBA patterns put more emphasis on accuracy and ball speed regulation.
What's new is old...and what's old becomes new again!


I think you have it exactly right Jesse. I bowl in a scratch challenge league and the patterns this season are all shorter and low volume. The one we are currently on has a total volume of 17 ml at a 2.48 to 1 ratio with a length of 39 ft.


The only strategy I have found that is somewhat acceptable is using a UC3 at a 5000 CTD pad finish for about a game and a half, then change to my Motiv Sniper spare ball and just throw hard and straight at the pocket. Often the Sniper will still over hook if I let my ball speed get under 16 mph.


Just in case anyone is wondering; yes, the left-handers are having a much easier time than the right-handers. And yes, there is a huge amount of bitchin' and complaining going on.  ;D
« Last Edit: February 10, 2022, 12:07:49 PM by milorafferty »
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morpheus

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Re: The urethane craze on the PBA
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2022, 04:33:10 PM »
Low volume 38-40 foot flat patterns play really hard and if you throw in some lane topography issues it’s a real treat…fortunately for local tournaments most of the lefties can’t bust a grape with a sledge hammer if the gutter isn’t sparking.
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