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Author Topic: Why do bowlers hate change  (Read 11149 times)

mainzer

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Why do bowlers hate change
« on: January 30, 2022, 03:23:10 PM »
Been reading the comments about the winner yesterday ( no spoilers) and I honestly feel embarrassed to be a bowler. Why is two handed bowling such a terrible thing? Why is bowling changing so terrible for old bowlers? Mark Roth was very ground breaking in his day and he is held in very high regard rightfully so yet a two hander has hate thrown at him.

Old Bowlers complain that bowling isn't what it was yet they are the first in line to tear down anything new and different why? Why can't bowling progress forwards?
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milorafferty

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2022, 06:14:54 PM »
Bowlers just like to bitch and complain.
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Juggernaut

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2022, 06:31:04 PM »
Because it’s “different”.

 When you’ve studied and worked a long time to perfect a needed set of skills, you easily tend to resent those who would seek to change the skill set completely that took you so long to learn.

 I was one. I absolutely HATED reactive resin balls because they negated release skills I had learned that gave me an edge. They enabled people with what I considered “bad” releases, who had not been able to generate carry power with the older technology, to now throw the ball with their weaker “natural” release, and hit/carry as well as I could.

 I felt cheated because I had to learn the right way to generate power with ball roll, but now you could just do it with balls the generated the friction with the cover technology, and right themselves into a roll with a gyroscopic weightblock.

 Two handed bowling is no different. It lets guys who aren’t physically strong enough to do it with one hand to use their second hand to help generate power. Older players didn’t do it that way. Instead, we were taught to perfect the “proper” release and told to perfect that as much as we could, cause that’s all you can do. We weren’t taught anything else, so maybe we felt like the young two handers were cheating both us and the system.

 There is hope though. I have gotten over it all, and I think many of us “old guys” are trying very hard to move into the 21st century, lol.
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DrBob806

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2022, 06:41:03 PM »
Because it’s “different”.

 When you’ve studied and worked a long time to perfect a needed set of skills, you easily tend to resent those who would seek to change the skill set completely that took you so long to learn.

 I was one. I absolutely HATED reactive resin balls because they negated release skills I had learned that gave me an edge. They enabled people with what I considered “bad” releases, who had not been able to generate carry power with the older technology, to now throw the ball with their weaker “natural” release, and hit/carry as well as I could.

 I felt cheated because I had to learn the right way to generate power with ball roll, but now you could just do it with balls the generated the friction with the cover technology, and right themselves into a roll with a gyroscopic weightblock.

 Two handed bowling is no different. It lets guys who aren’t physically strong enough to do it with one hand to use their second hand to help generate power. Older players didn’t do it that way. Instead, we were taught to perfect the “proper” release and told to perfect that as much as we could, cause that’s all you can do. We weren’t taught anything else, so maybe we felt like the young two handers were cheating both us and the system.

 There is hope though. I have gotten over it all, and I think many of us “old guys” are trying very hard to move into the 21st century, lol.

I'd agree with all that, and also add that the two hander doesn't have to worry about "thumb drag" or whatever you want to call it.

I'm sure many a bowler has grabbed it at a clutch moment or two and it cost them, whether a title or a local sweeper.

I coached high school bowling for 15 years, hung it up in 2019. The amount of two handed youth bowlers is astounding, but if it keeps the sport alive I'm ok with it. Jason Belmonte definitely inspired a generation that's for sure.

justlane

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2022, 07:01:13 PM »
Because it's different.  Agreed.

Because people whine.  Agreed.

Because we don't want to bear any responsibility for our own results (unless we win).



« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 07:05:45 PM by justlane »
Lane Carter

Remmah

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2022, 08:28:48 PM »
Because it’s “different”.

 When you’ve studied and worked a long time to perfect a needed set of skills, you easily tend to resent those who would seek to change the skill set completely that took you so long to learn.

 I was one. I absolutely HATED reactive resin balls because they negated release skills I had learned that gave me an edge. They enabled people with what I considered “bad” releases, who had not been able to generate carry power with the older technology, to now throw the ball with their weaker “natural” release, and hit/carry as well as I could.

 I felt cheated because I had to learn the right way to generate power with ball roll, but now you could just do it with balls the generated the friction with the cover technology, and right themselves into a roll with a gyroscopic weightblock.

 Two handed bowling is no different. It lets guys who aren’t physically strong enough to do it with one hand to use their second hand to help generate power. Older players didn’t do it that way. Instead, we were taught to perfect the “proper” release and told to perfect that as much as we could, cause that’s all you can do. We weren’t taught anything else, so maybe we felt like the young two handers were cheating both us and the system.

 There is hope though. I have gotten over it all, and I think many of us “old guys” are trying very hard to move into the 21st century, lol.

I'd agree with all that, and also add that the two hander doesn't have to worry about "thumb drag" or whatever you want to call it.

I'm sure many a bowler has grabbed it at a clutch moment or two and it cost them, whether a title or a local sweeper.

I coached high school bowling for 15 years, hung it up in 2019. The amount of two handed youth bowlers is astounding, but if it keeps the sport alive I'm ok with it. Jason Belmonte definitely inspired a generation that's for sure.
.

Nice backhanded comment on two handed bowlers not being strong enough your a fool

Juggernaut

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2022, 09:26:47 PM »
Because it’s “different”.

 When you’ve studied and worked a long time to perfect a needed set of skills, you easily tend to resent those who would seek to change the skill set completely that took you so long to learn.

 I was one. I absolutely HATED reactive resin balls because they negated release skills I had learned that gave me an edge. They enabled people with what I considered “bad” releases, who had not been able to generate carry power with the older technology, to now throw the ball with their weaker “natural” release, and hit/carry as well as I could.

 I felt cheated because I had to learn the right way to generate power with ball roll, but now you could just do it with balls the generated the friction with the cover technology, and right themselves into a roll with a gyroscopic weightblock.

 Two handed bowling is no different. It lets guys who aren’t physically strong enough to do it with one hand to use their second hand to help generate power. Older players didn’t do it that way. Instead, we were taught to perfect the “proper” release and told to perfect that as much as we could, cause that’s all you can do. We weren’t taught anything else, so maybe we felt like the young two handers were cheating both us and the system.

 There is hope though. I have gotten over it all, and I think many of us “old guys” are trying very hard to move into the 21st century, lol.

I'd agree with all that, and also add that the two hander doesn't have to worry about "thumb drag" or whatever you want to call it.

I'm sure many a bowler has grabbed it at a clutch moment or two and it cost them, whether a title or a local sweeper.

I coached high school bowling for 15 years, hung it up in 2019. The amount of two handed youth bowlers is astounding, but if it keeps the sport alive I'm ok with it. Jason Belmonte definitely inspired a generation that's for sure.
.

Nice backhanded comment on two handed bowlers not being strong enough your a fool

Your lack of reading comprehension and understanding is nothing short of astounding.

Troll on man.
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rocky61201

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2022, 09:26:57 PM »
The percentage of people complaining about anything hasn't changed that much over time.  The difference now is they have a platform to post their complaints.  And posting their complaints gives them some sort of fullfillment by finding at least a couple people on the internet to agree with them.  Instead what they should be focusing on is  themselves and what they can do to improve. 
« Last Edit: January 30, 2022, 09:29:09 PM by rocky61201 »
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Remmah

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2022, 10:21:27 PM »
Two handed bowling is no different. It lets guys who aren’t physically strong enough to do it with one hand to use their second hand to help generate power




Evidently this isn’t your trash

svengali

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2022, 10:40:43 PM »
The percentage of people complaining about anything hasn't changed that much over time.  The difference now is they have a platform to post their complaints.  And posting their complaints gives them some sort of fullfillment by finding at least a couple people on the internet to agree with them.  Instead what they should be focusing on is  themselves and what they can do to improve.

Ain't that the truth.

Two-handed is just one of many things bowlers will complain about (urethane, lefties, wrist devices, handicap to name a few others). Many of the bowlers that complain are the same people who never practice and expect to walk in the door and average 230 in league.   

I actually switched to two-handed over the summer after being frustrated at my own game and I can say firsthand that it's not easy at all. My average is down in 2 of my 3 leagues (and even in the 3rd league it's only up by a couple of pins). That's after practicing a lot over the summer (and getting in at least one practice session per week since then) and getting a lot of positive feedback from knowledgeable bowlers that my two-handed game looks good and I should stick with it. As it turns out, rev rate going up doesn't automatically equate to scores going up.  Two-handers have to develop their skills just like anybody else.
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Adrenaline

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2022, 11:27:21 PM »
Two handed bowling is no different. It lets guys who aren’t physically strong enough to do it with one hand to use their second hand to help generate power

Translation: "2 handed bowling = more power, but I'm ironically upset at people using a superior method."

When it comes to athletic motion, the bigger and stronger muscle groups you can engage and efficiently utilize, the more power you can create.  Period.
2 handed bowling, is the superior method because whether anyone likes it or not, the laws of the universe dictate so.  The measurements and calculations of energy transfer and pre-determined.  Until a new way of delivery finds a way to create a higher peak energy transfer, then 1 handed will always be the sub-optimal way to bowl.

Yes, you can overcome raw power with technique and still be competitive, because bowling is more than just energy transfer, you also have to transfer that energy at a specific point, angle, launch, and repeat it consistently. much of which before the ball touches the lane.  The problem is, when a 2 hander (such as Belmonte) has just as much technique AND more power, then his advantage is undeniable.

Analogy:
Keenan Allen is regarded as the best route runner in the NFL.  His technique is flawless and that's how he does what he does so well, with accuracy, technique, skill etc.
DK Metcalf however, is pure, raw, unadulterated strength, speed, and power.

2 completely different ways to accomplish the same goal in the same sport.  Metcalf can learn and develop technique, but Keenan Allen can NOT learn to be taller, faster, stronger.

This is why the NFL has consistently gotten bigger, stronger, and faster at every single position for decades.  Because if you can turn a physical freak into a technically sound player, they will almost always prevail over someone who is just technically sound.

Belmote is both.
Many 2 handers (especially in THS leagues) are just exploiting power to mask their lack of technique/accuracy/consistency.
Many 1 handers, are just exploiting accuracy and technique to mask their lack of power.

Again, 2 different methods to obtain the same goal.  But if a 2 hander can develop the same amount of technique, accuracy, and consistency, COMBINED with more power... they will be the superior bowler.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2022, 07:36:26 AM »
I like it when people say it is the second hand that generates the power.  No it doesnt.  I have been a full time two hander since the mid 1990s.  The second hand comes off the ball before the release point.  So all the second hand is, is a glorified wrist brace.

What separates the winner of the Players Championship is his ability to repeat shots and with the accuracy he has.  Power has nothing to do with being superior.  Look at the top guys in all time wins and not many are high rev rate guys. 

Walter Ray
Earl Anthony
Norm Duke
Pete Weber
Parker Bohn III
Mark Roth
Dick Weber
Mike Aulby
Don Johnson and Belmo tied
Brian Voss
Marshall Holman

You take Belmo out of the list and the highest rev rate is Parker?  Belmo has 26 wins and Walter has 47.  Do we think Belmo gets to Walter?  I am saying no for the fact that Belmo is already pushing 40 and is 21 behind.  Also have to remember he got started late whereas guys like Norm and Pete were already on the PBA as teenagers.  Accuracy is still the #1 factor in succeeding on the tour.  Does power help?  Of course.  But does it make you superior?  Absolutely not.  While Roth was the power guy of his time; he wouldnt be anywhere close to even guys like Johnson or Tackett much less Belmo and Osku.  Be willing to bet Roth's rev rate was high 300s.  If we took Roth in his 20s and 30s and paired him up with todays game; he probably would be low to mid 400s maybe.  But the fact that the way they drilled balls back then with the stretched spans and other factors; you could tell Roth didnt get out of the ball very cleanly as compared to todays game which helps to generate more rev rate. 
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bradl

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2022, 08:13:30 AM »
Two handed bowling is no different. It lets guys who aren’t physically strong enough to do it with one hand to use their second hand to help generate power



Nice backhanded comment on two handed bowlers not being strong enough your a fool

Not for nothing, but the self-own here is hilarious. Oof.

BL.

txbowler

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2022, 12:04:44 PM »
The correct title of this post could be "Why Do Bowlers Hate Losing"

Better techniques have always caused people to complain.  When the gentleman tried a new form of high jumping (Fosburry - didn't Google) he made the old technique futile. Athletes who were great at the old style, no longer mattered. Back before resin balls, bowlers had adjusted their release and might be the best in their area before resin came out and now they were no longer the best.  They no longer mattered.  Now 2 handed bowling has come along and the 1 handers are learning that they may no longer matter.  It is a huge smash to your EGO and pocket book when you used to be feared on the lanes and now cannot dominate.

There is a very limited amount of money in bowling, and if you choose bowling to feed you and your family and suddenly some new style is causing you to lose way more than before, it is frustrating.  Sure you can learn to bowl 2 handed, but until you master it, you won't make money and you won't matter.

rocky61201

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Re: Why do bowlers hate change
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2022, 12:49:58 PM »
The correct title of this post could be "Why Do Bowlers Hate Losing"

Ain't this the truth as well.  At my center we have a 21yo kid two hander with more revs, speed, and versatility than I have ever seen.  He can slam the pocket and convert tough spares with a back-up ball just as easy as he does from the right side.  All he needs to make the next step is some good coaching to improve his knowledge and mental game. We're in SoCal so I suggested he give Mark Baker a try. 

I don't mind losing to him and do my best to pass on some knowledge if he screws up, while still beating me.  At 51yo I have no shot at being PBA material and even if this kid knocks me out of a local tournament and I lose some money I don't mind. I got enough $. 

And for what it's worth, all of the really good two handers I know are still very impressive and very competitive when using one hand.   
« Last Edit: January 31, 2022, 12:56:46 PM by rocky61201 »
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