Author Topic: Will League bowling suvive? (Read 6717 times)

Boos · « **on:** February 02, 2010, 01:52:24 AM »

As a online pro shop owner I can see that league bowling is declining. I asked on another thread about how I can find out just how many. Business has been below average for the past 2 years with the recession and to be honest I think people are giving up. Heck, I am down to 1 league. I used to bowl 3 or 4. I have opened another Business out of bowling and am enjoying it. I will keep the Bowling shop but just for a hobby. You just cannot make money in bowling.

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2010, 12:12:46 PM »

in 2000, I bowled two leagues, monday nite i think cost 11$ and the return was pretty good at the banquet... the scratch league on weds was 15$ and the return was HUGE, 3man league. And we finished 3rd outa 8 teams and still got like 200$ per man.

But the monday nite league it always varied because it was like every other year we had to increase fee's cuz the house was increasing the lineage.. When i started in said league the fee's were i think 9$ in 96... and by 2005, the fee's were like 14$ And you got less, from the bowling alley.

Now I pay 14$ for my 1 league, but afterwards, its only 1$ per game to practice WOOT!!!!!
--------------------
" Lift Your Skirt Grab Your Balls and Learn How to Bowl " http://coolluvr4u1976.bowlspace.com/

For my vids on youtube - search coolluvr4u1976

Gazoo · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2010, 12:13:15 PM »

I agree that it depends on the area. It is hard to compete when young people have the world at their fingertips. It's difficult for league bowling in a virtual world.
--------------------
"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

someguyintucson · « **Reply #18 on:** February 02, 2010, 12:22:33 PM »

I'm not sure that some bowling center owners/managers should be in the business. A local Brunswick center hosted the singles & doubles events for our city tournament two years ago. Two shifts each day on Saturday and Sunday, full house (32 lanes) with 6 bowlers per pair. Lineage was roughly $3 per game X 6 games = $18 per bowler x 180 bowlers = $3240 in lineage per day. Add in the food and bar business and I'm guessing that it was over $4000 per day for the three weekends that the tournament ran at the center. After the tournament concluded, I heard that manager of the Brunswick center declared that they would not bid next year for the tournament because they lost too much money compared to their open bowling business. I honestly can't see how they can lose money by packing the house with bowlers paying a guaranteed $3 per game along with all of the snack bar and liquor sales during a tournament squad.

Boos · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2010, 12:25:03 PM »

Quote

Quote
Quote
its very simple "cost of doing business"
Bowl / boos
I thought you said you got out of the business about a year or so ago....

No I decided to stay. But numbers are way down. I am in no way downing other online shops to mine. But there are others that are just hurting the Bowling Business.

Dewey24 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2010, 12:35:34 PM »

someguyintucson Quote"compared to their open bowling business. I honestly can''''t see how they can lose money by packing the house with bowlers paying a guaranteed $3 per game along with all of the snack bar and liquor sales during a tournament squad."
I think the answer lies in all of the misc. stuff not just bowling and food. Shoe rental is what $4 a pair now. Somebody correct me if I''''m wrong but rental shoes probably cost $15 a pair you rent that pair 10 times in a weekend and the rest is pure profit. On top of that you figure in game room revenue it starts to add up.
Granted i look at things from a family owned center perspective. If I where to try to open a center in the New England area your looking at 10 Million to start. Not including the ridiculous price to buy the land. I honestly think corporate run lanes are the future and that means a not so bright future for league bowlers. It''''s the mom and pop places that have relationships with their league bowlers built over years. As these places go away so will league bowlers.

Edited on 2/2/2010 1:36 PM

Edited on 2/2/2010 2:06 PM

pin-chaser · « **Reply #21 on:** February 02, 2010, 12:49:39 PM »

Twohand834 is saying what I have said for years..... point money is killing bowling centers. Why would anyone pay EXTRA money during the year and TRUST a league secratary or a bowling center to give it back at the end of the year. Most point money leagues you cant make a profit either. You end up paying the bottom teams by taking money from the top teams.

Go back to paying 1st - 4th place and make the winner earn more than they pay into the league...example:

~10.00 per night bowling
~00.50 per night sec. fee
3.50 per night prize fund
~14.00 per night

16 teams x 5 members per team x 36 weeks x $3.50 prize fund = $10,080 total prize fund

1st 4000 (8000 per man) expense 14x36=$504 = profit 296
2nd 3000 (600 per man) expense 14x36=$505 = profit 95
3rd 2000 (400 per man) expense 14x36=$504 = loss 104
4th 1000 (200 per man) expense 14x36=$504 = loss 304

$200 for High Average
$200 for High Series
$100 for 2nd High Series
$200 for Hi Game
$100 for 2nd Hi Game
$280 for last night banquet

2 leagues today at $20 = $40 per week and you loose money
3 leagues at $14 = $42 per week but you could bring home $3000 (6 times what you pay)

PLUS the house makes 1 more league night. Thats a 50% increase in guarenteed bowling lineage. POINT MONEY is killing bowling.

Why should anyone who finished dead last believe they should get anything back?

Bluff · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2010, 12:54:45 PM »

quote:
As a online pro shop owner I can see that league bowling is declining. I asked on another thread about how I can find out just how many. Business has been below average for the past 2 years with the recession and to be honest I think people are giving up. Heck, I am down to 1 league. I used to bowl 3 or 4. I have opened another Business out of bowling and am enjoying it. I will keep the Bowling shop but just for a hobby. You just cannot make money in bowling.

Not true !!! You can make Money on anything !!! Problem is Do you know how!!!
--------------------
"A man with no skills can be taught. A man with no honor, has nothing."

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #23 on:** February 02, 2010, 01:36:52 PM »

IMO the problem is not with cost of (bowling) equipment but more with the cost of BOWLING at the Centers! Parents can't afford to send the kids bowling .. the same adults can't afford to bowl more then once a week (even then it's a strain). If the Centers would cut the linage fees they wouldn't have so much IDLE time and this would help the bowling industry.

We have to get 10-16 year olds involved .. if we think of only today this game will DIE .. the Senior bowlers are drifting away (or passing) and those that remain CANT AFFORD the sport!

Again IMO the centers (both Corporate and Mom/Pop) are KILLING BOWLING! And the answer is GREED!
--------------------
J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

northface28 · « **Reply #24 on:** February 02, 2010, 01:59:31 PM »

Greed works on both sides of the ledger. The consumer (bowler) wants low prices, the corporation (AMF, Brunswick, etc) wants to charge higher prices. The irony is that both sides thinks the other is greedy. Bottom line, businesses are here to maximize profits, not be your friend, give you low lineage prices, or ensure you go home at the end of the season with a hefty payout. Harsh, cold reality, if you don't like it, don't bowl.
--------------------
*˙ǝɟıן ɹnoʎ ɟo spuoɔǝs ǝʌıɟ ʇsoן ʇsnɾ ǝʌɐɥ noʎ ʇɐɥʇ ʎɐs oʇ ʎɹɹos ɯɐ ı sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ noʎ ɟı

txbowler · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2010, 02:01:01 PM »

I personally have been bowling in this area for 15+ years. Most of the bowlers have not quit bowling, just bowl less. I used to bowl 4 leagues a week. Now I bowl 1 plus a once a month league.

As for the poster about point money, I disagree.

If the last place team does not get something, next year, they will not return.

My thoughts have always been, 1st place team makes enough to have bowled the year for free including lineage costs in a money league with maybe a slight profit.

Boos · « **Reply #26 on:** February 02, 2010, 02:20:51 PM »

Quote

Greed works on both sides of the ledger. The consumer (bowler) wants low prices, the corporation (AMF, Brunswick, etc) wants to charge higher prices. The irony is that both sides thinks the other is greedy. Bottom line, businesses are here to maximize profits, not be your friend, give you low lineage prices, or ensure you go home at the end of the season with a hefty payout. Harsh, cold reality, if you don't like it, don't bowl.

I agree. Especially the part that centers do not care how you are feeling when you go home. Shops like Myself need their help but they do not like to help. In my area, their is a guy who owns 3 centers and does not want a Pro Shop in any of them.

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #27 on:** February 02, 2010, 02:42:01 PM »

quote:
Greed works on both sides of the ledger. The consumer (bowler) wants low prices, the corporation (AMF, Brunswick, etc) wants to charge higher prices. The irony is that both sides thinks the other is greedy. Bottom line, businesses are here to maximize profits, not be your friend, give you low lineage prices, or ensure you go home at the end of the season with a hefty payout. Harsh, cold reality, if you don't like it, don't bowl.

Funny I was thinking along the same lines! The question is do you maximize profits by having idle time on your lanes?

Appears that the Corporations have decided it's better to have less bowlers with higher charges then it is to have more bowlers with less charges.

Now this probable works TODAY but with less bowlers there is less interest .. therefor the whole industry slowly dies!

Im all for getting MORE people active in the game so that it GROWS .. the profit by the Corporation will NOT break numbers NOW but will give the whole Industry a better shot at the FUTURE .. again MY OPINION!
--------------------
J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

northface28 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 02, 2010, 02:53:37 PM »

Agreed. Lets consider the following.

Two recreational bowlers, 2 games, 2 shoe rentals

2 bowlers x $5.00/game @ 4 games (2 each bowler) = $20
2 bowlers x $4.00/rental @ 2 pairs of shoes= $8

$28 total

League bowler (probably comes alone, get a league "discount" and has his own shoes). The Center has to hope the league bowler bowls a lot of games to capture the profit they get from the recreational bowler.

League Bowler, 3 games, no shoe rental

1 bowler x $3.00/game @ 3 games = $9
1 bowler x $0.00/rental @ 0 shoe rental = $0

$9 total

As a Center manager, which scenario would you prefer? Not to mention the recreational bowler is more likely to go to the arcade and snack shop whereas the league bowler is not. Again, more profits. Granted the Center will have idle time on its hands, but it more than makes up for it in overall revenue generated from recreational bowlers and less wear and tear on machines.
--------------------
*˙ǝɟıן ɹnoʎ ɟo spuoɔǝs ǝʌıɟ ʇsoן ʇsnɾ ǝʌɐɥ noʎ ʇɐɥʇ ʎɐs oʇ ʎɹɹos ɯɐ ı sıɥʇ pɐǝɹ noʎ ɟı

Edited on 2/2/2010 3:55 PM

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #29 on:** February 02, 2010, 03:39:26 PM »

League bowler .. 10 teams 4 bowlers for 36 weeks .. casual bowler perhaps once a month!

I wasn't comparing League bowler to Casual bowler I was talking LINEAGE COST! I think it's too high .. shoe cost .. I think it's too high! If we can't keep bowlers in the Center how can the rest of the Industry (ball manufacturers/pro shops) survive?
--------------------
J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

someguyintucson · « **Reply #30 on:** February 02, 2010, 04:01:01 PM »

quote:
Agreed. Lets consider the following.

Two recreational bowlers, 2 games, 2 shoe rentals

2 bowlers x $5.00/game @ 4 games (2 each bowler) = $20
2 bowlers x $4.00/rental @ 2 pairs of shoes= $8

$28 total

League bowler (probably comes alone, get a league "discount" and has his own shoes). The Center has to hope the league bowler bowls a lot of games to capture the profit they get from the recreational bowler.

League Bowler, 3 games, no shoe rental

1 bowler x $3.00/game @ 3 games = $9
1 bowler x $0.00/rental @ 0 shoe rental = $0

$9 total

As a Center manager, which scenario would you prefer? Not to mention the recreational bowler is more likely to go to the arcade and snack shop whereas the league bowler is not. Again, more profits. Granted the Center will have idle time on its hands, but it more than makes up for it in overall revenue generated from recreational bowlers and less wear and tear on machines.

Edited on 2/2/2010 3:55 PM

I think that you also need to consider the $10 per league night x 33 weeks a season that the league bowler guarantees you in this scenario. Recreational bowler might come in once a month and drop $15-20, but the league bowler is there once a week paying $10 for lineage and probably another $10 for food/drink

Author Topic: Will League bowling suvive? (Read 6717 times)

Boos

Will League bowling suvive?

David Lee Yskes

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

Gazoo

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

someguyintucson

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

Boos

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

Dewey24

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

pin-chaser

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

Bluff

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

JOE FALCO

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

northface28

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

txbowler

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

Boos

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

JOE FALCO

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

northface28

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

JOE FALCO

Re: Will League bowling suvive?

someguyintucson

Re: Will League bowling suvive?