Author Topic: Sandbagging, or smart use of lane time? (Read 1489 times)

9andaWiggle · « **on:** September 29, 2009, 03:14:35 AM »

In response to this line of posts from another thread:

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I was an eyewitness to this clown and his behaviour. Its not the fact that the guy did it that bothers me because idiots also inhabit and share the planet. To me it is a disgrace and an insult to the sport and to all bowlers aside from it being a blatant disrespect to the game. I don't get when people will trade mediocrity in place of always trying your best at whatever you do no matter what the situation. Can you imagine someone like Vince Lombardi saying to his players. All right men, lets go out there and be mediocre and if we are getting our heads handed to us, well then, lets just throw in the towel, sink the ship, burn the fort and any other cliche you want apply (insert cliche here). And to do it openly and express it that way, I mean why even bowl just take a card and a stamp and mail in whatever score you want, cuts down on the price of equipment. Stamps are cheaper than bowling balls, at least for now anyways. My 2 cents worth, you can have the soapbox back Mike.

HM

I understand your frustration, but I think the football analogy is not accurate. Pro teams do it all the time when they lock themselves into the playoffs early, then play the 2nd and 3rd stringers to "rest" their A squad in any games left before the playoffs begin. Would that be "bagging"? It definitely isn't trying your best no matter what... Why bother showing up, just give the W and forfeit those games and rest the entire team.
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9~

Internet Tough Guy

Cyberspace Sheep Lover

This isn't bagging in football. Bagging in football would be a crappy team, knowing they are eliminated from the playoffs intentionally losing games to get a higher draft pick.

What you described is just smart, resting players. Still trying to do your best with what is on the field.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

Good point. I don't know why I feel argumentive today, but I kinda do, so I'll not hijack this thread, and will start another with my response for fun.

I wish to present this.

If I have a guy beat in the 8th frame, is it bagging if I switch to a ball I know I have problems with, and use the remaining 2 frames as practice to try to get better with that ball? The game is already won, so am I sandbagging by doing this, or being smart by using that time to try and improve my game?

What if, in the same situation (game won in the 8th), I have been struggling with 10 pins and use those remaining 2 frames to practice my 10 pin shot to make sure I don't miss any in the next match? Would that be sandbagging, or being smart - doing the best that I can to improve my game for the next match?

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9~

Internet Tough Guy

Cyberspace Sheep Lover

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 29, 2009, 11:36:05 AM »

What are you talking about here? Matchplay? Do you get handicap based on your average? If so, then yes, you're bagging.
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Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

EagleHunter · « **Reply #2 on:** September 29, 2009, 11:49:23 AM »

In reality, no this could not be sandbagging. Just like if a game is decided and you choose to try a different line for a later game/match...it is really no different.

However, if the bane of bowling...HANDICAP...is involved, then it and almost anything else would be viewed as sandbagging.

The problem is simple: get rid of HANDICAP! If there is no handicap there can be no sandbagging.

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 29, 2009, 12:24:00 PM »

Bowlers with cap are the majority. It's not going anywhere. A better answer is to use a running average that includes previous years games. That way you can't change your average much by tanking one game here and there. Or even simpler, use last year's average to determine handicap for the entire year.
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Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

jbshepherds · « **Reply #4 on:** September 29, 2009, 12:36:21 PM »

My BIL is a self proclaimed Sandbagger. He will not let his average get above 170-175 by the end of the year. He feels it is harder to go to tournaments with the lower average and make money.

Bluff · « **Reply #5 on:** September 29, 2009, 12:56:09 PM »

Is Call Winning

There is no suchthing as sandbagging. It's just a way for bowlers to whine about. Like the lanes , the aproche , the pins , the PMS the .......
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"A man with no skills can be taught. A man with no honor, has nothing."

EagleHunter · « **Reply #6 on:** September 29, 2009, 01:11:55 PM »

There is no such thing as "bowlers with cap." The problem is that leagues are devised in a way that any and all are welcome.

WAY BACK when I was younger and bowling in a traveling youth classic league, bowlers were placed in divisions based on their ability (average), then teams were drawn such that a competitive balance would be struck among all of the teams. If a bowler improved, they would be promoted to the next division. There was no handicap. It was and still is the fairest way to bowl.

Leagues should be devised so that handicap is not needed. Bowlers should DESIRE to bowl with others of their caliber. If you want to bowl the "big dogs" then you practice and get better. The problem is that everyone wants to feel they can beat the "big dogs" REGARDLESS of how talented they really are.

trash heap · « **Reply #7 on:** September 29, 2009, 01:17:31 PM »

quote:
In reality, no this could not be sandbagging. Just like if a game is decided and you choose to try a different line for a later game/match...it is really no different.

However, if the bane of bowling...HANDICAP...is involved, then it and almost anything else would be viewed as sandbagging.

+ 1

trash heap · « **Reply #8 on:** September 29, 2009, 01:25:42 PM »

Eagle,

I agree with you again.

quote:
Leagues should be devised so that handicap is not needed. Bowlers should DESIRE to bowl with others of their caliber. If you want to bowl the "big dogs" then you practice and get better. The problem is that everyone wants to feel they can beat the "big dogs" REGARDLESS of how talented they really are.

But message (DESIRE to bowl with others of their caliber) has been lost. Most league bowlers don't want to practice. Why practice if you can shoot big scores on occasion. They want the easy condition. The USBC has a lot of fragile egos to be concerned with.

michelle · « **Reply #9 on:** September 29, 2009, 01:31:04 PM »

quote:
Is Call Winning

There is no suchthing as sandbagging. It's just a way for bowlers to whine about. Like the lanes , the aproche , the pins , the PMS the .......

quote:
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"A man with no skills can be taught. A man with no honor, has nothing."

oh the irony that exists within the disparity created by the statement and the signature...

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #10 on:** September 29, 2009, 02:18:14 PM »

Eagle and Trash: I am not defending handicap, just pointing out that scratch bowlers are the minority. With league bowling on the decline, do you really think anyone is going to make rules that discourage casual bowlers from joining? I''d be happy to bowl in a scratch league. They don''t exist (at least here) anymore.
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Where is the bait? I''m goin'' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Edited on 9/29/2009 2:18 PM

Krakken · « **Reply #11 on:** September 29, 2009, 02:52:19 PM »

Nope. You are not intentionally bowling bad in hopes of getting more handicap. That is sandbagging.

If you are experimenting with a different line, or a different ball as you suggested, you are trying to IMPROVE your game.
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ROTO GRIP, There is NO Substitute
Slow Feet, Soft hand = Lots of strikes

mainzer · « **Reply #12 on:** September 29, 2009, 08:31:14 PM »

quote:
In reality, no this could not be sandbagging. Just like if a game is decided and you choose to try a different line for a later game/match...it is really no different.

However, if the bane of bowling...HANDICAP...is involved, then it and almost anything else would be viewed as sandbagging.

The problem is simple: get rid of HANDICAP! If there is no handicap there can be no sandbagging.

+100

I have been accused of bagging becasue I have been carrying a 225+ average, then one night bowl bad and all of a sudden I am a bagger?

Bowlers whine about needing handicap should get better then they wouldn't have to worry about handicap or sandbagging.

If Handicap didnt exist bowling wouldn't be where it is today.
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''ALL IS DUST!''

-Thousand Sons battle cry-

Founding Father of the BR Inquisition

MainzerPower

Author Topic: Sandbagging, or smart use of lane time? (Read 1489 times)

9andaWiggle

Sandbagging, or smart use of lane time?

kmanestor22

Re: Sandbagging, or smart use of lane time?

EagleHunter

Re: Sandbagging, or smart use of lane time?

kmanestor22

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jbshepherds

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Bluff

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EagleHunter

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trash heap

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trash heap

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michelle

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kmanestor22

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Krakken

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mainzer

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