Post by: Jeffrevs on July 29, 2003, 07:12:45 PM
Not consistent, grabbing the ball, pulling it, etc, etc.....I've been confirming my thumb pitches because I've been hanging up and not really coming out smooth all the time at release also.
QUESTION: Would a wrist brace (I don't use one now) help me to lock into a release position better, more consistently, then after a while, it would transfer to muscle memory and I could take it off ?
Does this make sense ? Any and all thoughts please ! THX......
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: kalannar on July 30, 2003, 11:06:47 AM
I don't think it would help. It would probably make things worse when you took it off. I use mine to keep my wrist locked in place but if I don't use it my wrist breaks back right before release and it goes really long. I think you would be doing more harm than good. I wish I had never started using one 10 years ago. I don't have enough free time to get used to bowling without one. Wish I did. Just my 2 cents.
Kalannar
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That which does not kill us strengthens us.
Post by: Michael DeSantis on July 30, 2003, 11:37:50 AM
If you have weak wrists or cannot keep your hand under the ball, the wrist brace may help with that. However, a wrist brace will not correct fundamental flaws in timing and release. I found them most useful if I wanted to get a bit more roll on an oily surface because it slowed me down and seemed to help me hit up on the ball a little more.
If you do not have any physical limitations, I think you would be better served to learn how to bowl without a brace. I find it is easier for me to change hand positions without a brace and my release seems less forced and more fluid.
Now, I certainly don't think it s a bad idea to experiment with a brace if you feel comfortable with one and you notice it improves your execution and overall game. We are all looking to optimize our results, and for some, a wrist brace (and there are many kinds available) is of great benefit. Brace or no brace, you need to develop an effective and consistent set of releases for various sets of conditions.
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"Chopping Wood For over Two Decades"
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 30, 2003, 11:52:10 AM
He was pretty good!
I have a friend that has a Striker wrist brace, he's become a money winning force on our local bowling scene since he got his several years ago.
I can't imagine him not using it.
For me I was much better when I consistently used one.
Other friends had them(Pro Release looked great) and then decided they wanted to be more politically correct and don't use them anymore.
There averages are down they don't really look as good but they are wearing the now larger culliones that come with saying"I don't need a wrist brace".
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS THe PGA tour does not allow players to use wrist devices as they believe they are an aide. I wonder why not!
PPS Why do bowlers always say they want to get off them. This is sweeping our center too!
Post by: Steven on July 30, 2003, 12:27:11 PM
You will experience a more consistent release. If you're a stroker/tweener by nature, you'll also probably see an increase in your revolutions. Because the brace locks you in to some degree, the ball is literally forced out of your hand, so you'll be surprised at the different roll.
But like most things in life, there is a trade off. The brace falls into the category of "be careful what you wish for -- it might come true". It will be more difficult to alter hand positions to combat different oil patterns. In this regard, you might have to make a ball switch where you would have previously just flattened out your hand. As a practical matter, the things get really sweaty in poorly ventilated centers, and that can be really annoying. And finally, you will lose some feel for a natural release. When I take my brace off to practice without it, I have little feel/control for where the ball is in my swing. I'm sure "feel" would come back over time, but the more you bowl and the longer you use it, the more dependent you become.
If you want to experiment, first try a Mongoose Equalizer. It's about the most comfortable brace available, and it's not too obtrusive. If that's not enough and you want to move up to something more restrictive that promotes more revolutions, consider the Robbys Revs II. It's a solid adjustable, but it's light, leaves free movement in the fingers, and very durable.
Let me know what you decide to do.
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"Advertisers -- you too can have access to this prime demographic"
Post by: seadrive on July 30, 2003, 12:31:53 PM
quote:
If you want to experiment, first try a Mongoose Equalizer.
Steven, do you know what the difference is between the Equalizer (blue?) and the Lifter (black?)
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
Post by: OLI on July 30, 2003, 12:51:18 PM
The Equalizer goes to the knuckles. The Lifter goes up to the finger allowing you to wrap the middle 2 finger or middle 2 and pinkie.
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OLI - USAF Retired and Pro Shop Operator
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 30, 2003, 01:00:16 PM
Anyone know?
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Edited on 7/30/2003 1:21 PM
Post by: Steven on July 30, 2003, 01:10:15 PM
The Lifter, is longer and your hand attaches to the brace with a finger strap that wraps around the base of your fingers. You can wrap the strap around any combination of fingers that you find comfortable, but the picture on the instructions show the index finger free. I know many who wrap just the the middle and ring finger. Again it's individual preference.
The Equalizer is shorter, and your hand attaches to the brace with a strap across the palm.
As far as practical differences, the Lifter provides greater support, but I find the strap around the fingers really annoying. After a lot of games, the strap starts irritating the crease at the base of my fingers. However, this is a very popular model, so maybe it's just my own issue.
The Equalizer almost doesn't feel like it's there. It's shorter, and the palm strap conforms to the natural movement of the hand. There is some freedom of movement in the Equalizer, so you don't walk around with a constricted feel. The only downside is that some folks might need more support than this model provides.
In my case, I use the Revs II for most conditions, but use the Equalizer when I need to tone down the shot on dry conditions. Obviously, this will be different for everyone.
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"Advertisers -- you too can have access to this prime demographic"
Post by: charlest on July 30, 2003, 01:18:21 PM
quote:quote:
If you want to experiment, first try a Mongoose Equalizer.
Steven, do you know what the difference is between the Equalizer (blue?) and the Lifter (black?)
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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl
They both come in colors. My equalizer is black. If I might offer my point of view ...
Equalizer is more standard, basic wrist device; it helps support the ball with a wrist backing plate, which, in turn, makes you use less muscle to hold the ball, again, in turn, reducing the pressure on your thumb. The wrist backing only comes as high as the first set of knuckles on your hand.
The Lifter is designed more to help your roll the ball, rather that spin/rotate it. The wrist backing comes up to the 2nd set of knuckles, the higher set in the middle of the finger (the first finger joint). If you want to stop spinning th eball, try the Lifter.
The difference between the Lifter and the Equalizer is similar to the difference between the Scorpion and the Eagle.
Scorpion:
http://www.bowlersparadise.com/shop/wristsupport_gloves/teamcobra/scorpionIII.shtml
Eagle:
http://www.bowlersparadise.com/shop/wristsupport_gloves/teamcobra/eagleIII.shtml
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: Steven on July 30, 2003, 01:19:08 PM
The original Revs provides both wrist and finger support. The device actually covers the entire back of the fingers. With this additional support, you can theoretically get more revolutions.
I went to the RevsII because I personally found the original Revs too restrictive. Just for the heck of it I put my old Revs on to try it out the other day (last use was two years ago), and I felt like I had a cast on my hand. I find the RevsII much less restrictive, but it provides most of the support provided by the original Revs.
But some people love the original Revs. My doubles partner swears by his and won't leave home without it
If you get into wrist devices, you soon find they are different for everyone.--------------------
"Advertisers -- you too can have access to this prime demographic"
Post by: charlest on July 30, 2003, 01:23:54 PM
I strongly recommend the Mongoose Equalizer, IF YOU WANT TO TRY A WRIST DEVICE.
I am using it to help me transition to 16 lbs from 15. It greatly redcues stress on the thumb. If you like, I also suggest using it only in practice. Try it for 3-5 games, then take it off and see if it has helped you for the next 2-4 games.
I also used it to help me be more consistent. If I take it off, I tend to make many more adjustments, with hand positions, as I am in the middle of my armwsing. With the Mongoose on, I am much more consistent, but it also enforces medium revs. Without it, I can change a lot more readily, which, I have learned, is not always a good thing.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 30, 2003, 01:27:28 PM
Equalizer is straighter and supplys more lift and less turn.
I at one time said I was going to do a 6 wrist brace review.
Snuck out of the office and bowled about 6 hours 1 hour with each wrist brace almost!!!
To be reviewed a little comment by each:
1.Columbia Stabilizer Pro - simple and great!
2.Mongoose Lifter, lot of turn
3.MOngooe Equalizer - eh?
4.Robbies standard - good combination of lift and turn, can sometimes pop ball off early(metal in hand)
5.Robbies extra a little increase in lift over Robbies Standard
6.Robbies Revs - of the adjustable metal wrist braces my least favorite, and least comfortable(does their large run too small for my large forearm)
7.Pro Release Comfortable, good release, good results complicated
8.Cobra Dragon Surprisingly comfortable and lots of flexibiltiy(bends forward during backswing if you cup your wrist during backswing(like Storm Power Paw).
Supplies a ton of finger lift(almost too much). Makes clacking noise that sounds like this "Nicanor, Nicanor" while throwing.
9.Striker wrist brace - Not adjustable but supplies one TON of lift at release, due to a build up of foam under the fingers. (My friend who uses one is very smooth and even through ball and supplies adjustments himself with "finger dancing") a la Magic Carpet.
Of the above my favorites are the Robbies etra, and the Striker, Pro release of the adjustables.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS Ooops 9 reviews.
PPS, I don't know why the Robbies Rev feels so bad, it also does not let me feel that I can penetrate the shot. I feel like Kendra Gaines always going around the ball, picture her follow thru when it's not going well. Instead of thru the ball, Do I maybe need an Xtra Large in this wristbrace?
Didn't want to spend extra money to find out!
Post by: 9andaWiggle on July 30, 2003, 01:54:53 PM
A while ago (before having my spans shortened) you guessed it, pain in the fingers. Even now, it still bothers me on those conditions when I need a little "extra" on the ball and really rip it. My wrist doesn't need the support, but would using one of these for a while take some pressure off my fingers and let them heal despite bowling 2-4 days per week? I've heard these injuries can take a long time to heal - and I'd hate to give up the game for a season or two. Thanks for any help.
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 30, 2003, 02:13:12 PM
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: dicnic on July 30, 2003, 04:34:47 PM
It is adjustable up/down in 4 positions so one can flatten out ones wrist for spares easily. Adjustable side to side for more or less turn etc. You can do just about anything with it you can do with your bare hand/wrist. Best thing, is it keeps you consistent in your hand wrist position without thinking about it. One less thing to worry about!
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What's with the Braille on a drive-up-ATM?
Never under any circumstances take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
Post by: thedjs on July 30, 2003, 04:51:10 PM
I went to a wrist support about 3 years ago and my average went from a 197 to 170. Then last year I took it off
off and my average went up to 182. Still not where it should be but getting there.
Why did I stick with the thing so long? It feels good. I found I had an increase in revs and hook without doing
anything. The problem? I lost speed and control. Looking back, I should have put it away after the first few
months, but like I said, it felt good and the increase in revs made me think I could figure it out.
Now I'm having to relearn how to make spares and start lifting the ball again. I'm still having a problem getting
a good clean release but I think this will get better as my confidence returns. Also, I'm playing with the thumb
pitch. Using the support I had to go to a zero pitch or I would lose the ball on the downswing.
Just my experience. Hope it helps some.
Oh, I was using the Moro support.
Post by: LuckyLefty on July 30, 2003, 09:16:27 PM
Ummm, "I only used it when my wrist hurt".
Just while my hand hurts from beating up a hole 5 man opposing team, I'll be using it. After that I'm back to my wrist brace free form.
Hardly a one except (dicnic) admitted he used it to bowl better!
When I switched to one a few years ago(original Robbies) it changed my game.
It allowed me the firmness to straighten out my hook and drive the ball to the breakpoint better and even on some less than steller releases, it helped me to get the ball to the pocket.
Now as soon as my carpal tunnel heals, yep, I'll be switching back!
Yep just as soon as I stop benching 400 for reps I think my wrist will heal and I'll be switching back, to throwing without one.
Yep!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS It is amazing what is politically correct in politics, life and sports from time to time.
PPS the next politically correct thing will be throwing bowling balls two handed.
THe few throwing one handed will say, Umm, as soon as my back heals I'll be back to two handed, ummm this one handed thing, just temporary!
Post by: MTFD24 on July 30, 2003, 11:12:20 PM
If you set the brace in a wrist cupped position, the more cupped the wrist, the more apt it is to change your span. If you already have a span that is on the longer side, it may now be too long. It is best to get your span checked with the support you intend on using, set in the position you would most be using.
This was brought to my attention by a well know driller at the Nationals, Mr. Heim.
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The Older We Get, The Better We Were
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 31, 2003, 06:50:59 AM
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: kalannar on July 31, 2003, 08:48:29 AM
I guess I didn't give enough explanation in my post. I have to admit that the cobra 3 and cobra have helped me a lot. The main problem that I have is it has caused me to start throwing a semi spinner type ball. I used to have to be careful of my release because I would track over my thumb hole. Now the closest I can get my first ring is and 1-1/2 away from my thumb. I can bowl great on drier conditions but the more oil you put out the worse I get. It used to be the opposite when I bowled without a wrist band, good on oil but worse on dry.
I know it has to do with the finger extension after talking to Doug on the phone. At release I am rotating around my index finger. I have a Mongoose lifter but as someone said above, the finger strap is annoying. I will be trying something new here soon but I haven't decided what I want.
Kalannar
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That which does not kill us strengthens us.
So do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons,
for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 31, 2003, 08:56:23 AM
have you tried a Revs or Revs II. I've never liked the finger extension devices....
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: kalannar on July 31, 2003, 09:03:19 AM
The lane that I was on was totally screwed up so nothing I threw moved, even the V2 Particle and Aggression. I will have to give these a try again. I was waiting for the new Strongarm to come out but I don't know if I can wait much longer, My Cobra 3 is falling apart. I had my original Cobra for 8 years and this one has fallen apart after 1-1/2. Let's just say I am not to happy with it. Luckily I didn't pay full price for it. Thanks Jeff.Kalannar
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That which does not kill us strengthens us.
So do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons,
for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
Post by: charlest on July 31, 2003, 09:31:10 AM
Once more into the fray:
The manufacturers of these devices do even a worse job of tellign you what they are for than ball manufacturers tell you which ball is for which condition and for which bowler. Let me try a little.
There are 3 basic types of wrist/hand/finger devices:
1. Your basic basic (double word intended)
These include the Mongoose Equalizer, the Scorpion and the Pro Release as examples. The support piece, usually a piece of metal cushioned in soft material, goes up the back of the hand to the first set of knuckles and down to an inch or two below the wrist. It keeps the wrist straight; some offer the ability to "force" a cupping of the wrist. (This is totally unnecessary in today's game, in my opinion.) Among the other benefits, besides helping support the wrist, is to reduce pressure on the thumb, thus allowing for an easy and quick release. It also permits a very consistent release. It's invaluable as a training device. The negative is it creates a dependency if you use it too often, unless you are in the middle of recuperation.
2. The model with a special support for the index finger.
Example: the Cobra.
This model helps add axis rotation, if you have too little. If you have a normal release, it will almost make a spinner out of you. All other benefits and negatives as in #1 apply.
3. The model that is #1 PLUS and extension that goes to the 2nd set of knuckles.
Examples: Mongoose Lifter, The Eagle, Pro-Release Extended.
The idea of this one is the opposite of #2. If you spin the ball too much or if you have too much axis rotation, this model helps you to roll the ball more and spin it less. All other benefits and negatives as in #1 apply.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Edited on 7/31/2003 9:41 AM
Post by: Jeffrevs on August 07, 2003, 08:30:09 AM
Threw a few games with a Robby RevsII last night. I like it...I noticed just a touch more revs , not much, so now I have 2 !!
, ...but the consistency and smoothness in my release is exactly what I'm looking for !! EXACTLY!Feels kind of strange just because I haven't used one in a while, but I like it and it seems to be just what I was looking for.
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !