Post by: slickboobie on January 06, 2004, 07:08:15 PM
thanks
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 07, 2004, 10:25:45 AM
See now ya went and got me started again. lol. The wrist brace is just another device to make an average bowler think he is better than what he is. By using the brace you are no longer controlling your ball, the brace is.
I think I probably have the lowest bowling on this site, but its all me, no extra gadgets, no super hook in a box, no fancy 200 shoes that guarantee a great slide. And no brace to make sure I can throw my hook the same every time. I am getting a little better each and every week and it's all me. If I ever manage to get a 200 average, then I know it's me with that average, not a brace doing it for me.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 07, 2004, 10:41:09 AM
The little leather glove type are more supports than braces. Those I have no problem with people using. He11, I have no problem with anybody using any type of brace they want to.
But the "dial a hook" does the job for you, all you gotta do is release the ball when its time.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: Badger856 on January 07, 2004, 11:12:58 AM
Post by: amazingbg on January 07, 2004, 11:20:50 AM
Hope this helps.
Post by: Steven on January 07, 2004, 11:27:43 AM
There are so many different types of wrist devices, it's hard to recommend any given model. If you are really interested in trying one out, a good 'benchmark' choice would be the Mongoose Equalizer. This device kind of falls in the middle of all wrist braces available. It gives some support (but not excessive), it allows some necessary hand movement, and it's very comfortable.
If after you try an Equalizer and decide you like braces in general, you can then decide if you want something more aggressive (Pro Release, Robbys Revs, Cobras, etc.) or something even less (Robbys Original, etc.). It generally takes some experimentation before settling on a model.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: bowl868 on January 07, 2004, 11:37:01 AM
Post by: Berreez on January 07, 2004, 11:52:17 AM
I also use the Pro-Release. It takes a while to get use to it but I like it.
Oh, just to answer the nay-sayers:
1- I have ABS ultra tour bowling shoes.
2- I buy new balls when I need them (got two for Christmas).
3- I use a wrist brace.
So, does this make me a lesser bowler than anyone else? Get real!
My average is the same whether I use one or not. Why, because I WORK at it.
Damn, I'm also a LEFTY. Sure sucks to be me.
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My wrist brace is just like my RADAR detector, I really don't need it but it sure makes me feel better when I have it on.
Edited on 1/7/2004 12:51 PM
Post by: omegabowler on January 07, 2004, 12:28:54 PM
The one thing you loose is last millisecond adjustments if your swing is off. so in a way the braces will make you have a better swing to be consistent.
of all the braces I have had the robby revs II is the best. I don't "Feel" the ball in the swing. some braces have make me feel some pressure in the back swing and I don't like that. this brace also lets me have about as close as I can come to a natural release that I had without a brace.
the one's with the finger can really change your roll. like the Robby Revs III.
I also like the glove ones with the removable bar.
but if you don't want to waste money with experimenting just get the Robby revs II
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on January 07, 2004, 12:57:49 PM
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15 years and still going strong! 15 years old that is!
DA DA DAAAAAA!! UP UP AND AWAY! TO THE BAT CAVE ROBIN!
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 07, 2004, 01:46:54 PM
You were a good bowler before your injury. My main point which I didn't specify enough, was that a subpar bowler, like myself, could do wonders with his/her game with a brace. I tried one and my bowling rose 30-40 pins per game. I debated and decided I wanted to learn how to bowl myself, not have the brace do it for me. This is just my opinion on braces, if I offended anyone, please accept my apologies. I meant no offense to those that were them for medical reasons, I meant no offense to those that decided to wear them after they already knew how to bowl and needed a new challenge. I was simply stating that a brace will bowl for you, and make you look better than you actually are in cases like myself.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: omegabowler on January 07, 2004, 02:01:17 PM
not to put you down but if a brace added 30 pins you need more help than you think. if coaching and practice are not available then I would get a brace!
you should refrain from putting down some else notion until you have mastered something. cause I will tell that not bowlers improve with a brace. it knock 20 pins off my AVG when I had to first start using one.
and for the once a week bowler it is wise. the physical conditioning of the piticular muscle groups is best benefited by Bowling itself. many games.
recently a hockey player commented on the soreness in his forearm from bowling a charity event. so don't kid yourself that a brace is not a good idea. if your manhood is threaten by it then fine,but don't pass the Jock itch onto someone else and ruin the game for them.
most pro bowler work out for legs and aerobic conditioning. there upper body strength comes from bowling itself. at least that is trend I read about.
bowling has a unique fact that a large amount of weught hangs off your fingers. much more than any other sport object. let recreation bowlers have a safe and good game.
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 07, 2004, 02:10:50 PM
I believe calling myself subpar speaks for itself on how I rate my bowling ability.
I already said I was sorry to anyone I might have offended.
No, I don't need a brace, if I can't learn it on my own, I don't need to learn it.
No, there is no coaching available in my small town, except for friends, which I get on a regular basis.
If you use a brace, and don't like my opinion, don't read what I write.
No one forced you to read my post, or my followup once you realized my position on braces.
There is an option on the bottom of any post you make about spell checking, please use it so anybody else you decide to insult will be able to understand what you write.
thank you
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 07, 2004, 02:20:10 PM
quote:
You sure you don't need a wrist brace to hold up your Lemonade?? Pretty heavy stuff. LOL j/k man j/k.
Only after I drink a couple of six packs, Then the wife has to tape them to my hand so I don't drop em. Does that count as a brace??? lol
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Edited on 1/7/2004 3:18 PM
Post by: omegabowler on January 07, 2004, 02:36:50 PM
Don’t get your panties in a bunch.
I said I wasn't putting you down. I am blunt by nature and a terrible typist. So both together sometimes comes out real rude.I just gave you a shotgun of different reasons that braces are acceptable so that the next time you give someone advice you can target there needs and just not your opinion.
Your opinion was just picked on by me, because it represents (maybe not your intention) a Jock type attitude that is give by many, and maybe correctly so for the pro athlete. But I believe that that attitude is harmful to more than it helps. And that is my opinion and I welcome debate on the advice I give.
I do try and give sound advice based on reasoning driven from advice of people who know more than me and/or life experiences.
Sure the Jock in me say’s Braces are for weak wrist wimps but that is not benefiting anyone but My EGO. You can search for this topic as it has come up from time to time and read my responses. They may have been a little softer written and not directed at any one. I see you post regular here and give lots of advice. I was just giving something more to think about.
Have a Nice Day.
spell checked just for you! but not proof read.
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: Steven on January 07, 2004, 02:45:38 PM
As far as a device "doing a good part of the job for you", you're using the wrong mechanics if this is happening, and you're not getting the results you might think.
A device does not magically get you around the ball properly with the proper exit timing and follow through force. The comes directly from developing optimal release timing that is neither too early nor too late. With proper mechanics, the brace should do nothing more than assist with wrist stability that can't otherwise be achieved.
Along these lines, I once read an article (should have saved it) that described Pete Weber's experience with a Cobra when they hired him as a spokesman years ago. His comments were to the effect that "the device really didn't do anything to his release". And that's precisely the point. The brace should simply assist already well developed mechanics -- not attempt to 'create' them (because it can't).
I've seen legions of mediocre bowlers (i.e. poorly developed mechanics) put a brace on, get more revs because the ball is simply being forced off their hand with the same lousy techniques, and declare that the device has taken them to the next level. Self delusion is a wonderful thing, and many of these folks undoubtedly post here.
We are in agreement that a wrist device should only be worn for a good reason. However, I still maintain that to adequately evaluate the plus/minus of wrist brace usage, you have to have gone though all phases of developing your game bare wristed, then use various braces over the course of several years, and finally step back and evaluate without emotional baggage cost/benefit of usage one way or another. Hence my statement that you quoted.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: Joe Cool on January 07, 2004, 03:00:06 PM
no1bucsfan is entitled to his opinion - nothing wrong with being idealistic, but bowling is what it is. I applaud you for your efforts and motivation, but what is best for you (or me) is not necessarily best for everyone else. Enjoy yourself and stop worrying about what anyone else is doing.
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Hit the pocket and hope for the best
Post by: slickboobie on January 07, 2004, 03:28:12 PM
Slick
Post by: mumzie on January 07, 2004, 03:38:42 PM
Get yourself to a doctor pronto. I speak from experience - and I now have to use a master wrist brace with the 4 inch wrist support, and an elbow band, and I can't do some of the things to the ball that I really want to do.
You're young, and your tendonitis MIGHT heal up with rest and treatment. but get it checked out, get some physical therapy, and get it fixed. Otherwise, when you get to be my age, you'll have to worry about all the younguns coming up behind you who don't have a frail wrist. My single tendonitis has turned into several (5 or 6) in my right arm because I thought I could work through it. I can't...
Here's what I use:
http://www.bowling.com/display.asp?SKU=58r
I've tried the dial-a-hook braces thinking it would help me through this injury. Although I've only thrown a few shots with them, I can tell you that in my case, they seem to make it worse. The constant, gentle support I get from this brace seems to fit me perfectly. Oh, yeah. I don't use the metal support - I use 3 different thicknesses of rigid plastic that I'd gotten with another brace. It's hard to bend, but not impossible - and it doesn't cut into my arm.
Edited on 1/7/2004 4:38 PM
Post by: squeeds on January 07, 2004, 03:43:33 PM
I tried bowling without a brace, and I dropped the ball a lot.
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on January 07, 2004, 03:45:44 PM
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15 years and still going strong! 15 years old that is!
DA DA DAAAAAA!! UP UP AND AWAY! TO THE BAT CAVE ROBIN!
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 07, 2004, 05:07:13 PM
Again my response was mainly for those, like myself, that aren't the best bowlers, and are looking for a quick way to get better.
Joe Cool, I agree with you 100% that we are all entitled to our opinions, but if I just worried baout myself, then I could not state my opinion now could I? lol.
Like Ragnar said, using a brace all the time when it isn't neccessary will cause your wrist get weak, and take away the ability to bowl without it. If that's not a crutch I don't know what is.
Slick, if you want a brace, then by all means go by one. It doesn't make a difference to me if anyone uses them or not. I do know though that when I shoot the best game in my life, whenever that may be, that I will have done it 100% myself, and that's what matters to me, and me alone.
--------------------
You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 07, 2004, 05:07:44 PM
Again my response was mainly for those, like myself, that aren't the best bowlers, and are looking for a quick way to get better.
Joe Cool, I agree with you 100% that we are all entitled to our opinions, but if I just worried about myself, then I could not state my opinion now could I? lol.
Like Ragnar said, using a brace all the time when it isn't neccessary will cause your wrist get weak, and take away the ability to bowl without it. If that's not a crutch I don't know what is.
Slick, if you want a brace, then by all means go by one. It doesn't make a difference to me if anyone uses them or not. I do know though that when I shoot the best game in my life, whenever that may be, that I will have done it 100% myself, and that's what matters to me, and me alone.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: Bjaardker on January 07, 2004, 08:11:09 PM
Have you tried a wrist brace? If so, what happened?
If braces were a crutch then you should be able to throw one on & instantly shoot 20-30 pins higher. I can tell you that this is simply not the case. One of the bowlers on my team wanted to try out my revsII jsut to see what it was like. He shot a 157 (he's a 197 avg bowler). It wasn't a coincidence, he shot another game for a stunning 142.
Using a brace is simply another way to bowl. It's no different from a person preferring to be a cranker over a stroker, neither is a wrong way to bowl, they're just different styles.
Post by: Joe Cool on January 07, 2004, 11:27:28 PM
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Hit the pocket and hope for the best
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 08, 2004, 07:51:28 AM
I said in an earlier post that I tried one and it made a significant improvement in the series of games I shot with it. JUst the fact that it made sure my release was the same every time. IF I can't learn to do that without the brace I don't need to bowl. To me, and in my opinion, the brace is a crutch that should be used for medical reasons only, not because your to lazy to learn to throw a proper ball. If you know how to bowl, and then use a brace, fine, but if you just learning to bowl, like me, and start using a brace, then you aren't learning anything.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: LuvThatWhiteDot on January 08, 2004, 08:09:48 AM
quote:
I just read bowlingkid's post about his tendonitis. I was going to send this in a PM, but instead decided to post it here...Get yourself to a doctor pronto.
As a former sufferer of tendinitis (playing racquetball with my son), I also say see a doctor. My anchor bowler on my team has been complaining of a sore elbow for a while, and saw the doctor yesterday. She has medial epicondylitis. That's tendinitis in the lower half of your arm. The doctor now has her on prednisone (a corticosteroid)to help reduce inflammation. The doctor also recommended the RICE technique
[R]est
ce
[C]ompresion
[E]levation
As for me, I continued to bowl, but wore a Band-It to help relieve the pressure on my elbow. I took last summer off and I'm completely healed. The only remaining problem is that when the weather changes, I have a nice barometer in my elbow now
Here's a link to the pic of the elbow brace I'm wearing.
http://www.bowlersparadise.com/shop/wristsupport_gloves/robby/band-it.shtml
I wear a Robby's Plus when I bowl mainly to help with fatigue since I type for a living.
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White Dot
Queen of the Stone 8 Pin
Post by: Berreez on January 08, 2004, 09:56:09 AM
Do we “make†excuses (I’m going to get slammed for that remark) for using a certain ball, shoe, or target? No, so why on wrist braces.
Do we feel less than average to the BR members that we have too justify the use? As my signature states, it makes me feel better. This in turn helps me BOWL better and isn’t that the point?
Knock down more that your opponent is the goal. If I felt comfortable using a house ball and rental shoes that’s what I would use. I don’t look down on the bowlers who do or don’t use a wrist brace. I’m still out there to beat them, aren’t you?
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My wrist brace is just like my RADAR detector, I really don't need it but it sure makes me feel better when I have it on.
Post by: Steven on January 08, 2004, 01:19:29 PM
Along these lines, do finger inserts fall into the category of crutch? What about thumb inserts? Both of these enhancements allow many to release a ball in a way that they could not do otherwise.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: Badger856 on January 08, 2004, 01:32:05 PM
Post by: omegabowler on January 08, 2004, 02:06:10 PM
low rg cores help the revless get more revs. advantage? yes! talent? No!
braces help consistency release. advantage? yes talent? no!
blocked lanes? advantage? yes? talent? no
braces keep your wrist locked. advantage? No
hitting the same spot on the lane at the same speed using all of the above?
advantage? NO! talent yes!
Grip, proper drilling, flair, pin placement, ball surface prep.....
so there are a lot of reasons that you can score 200 and everything in the bag is a crutch.
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 08, 2004, 02:50:27 PM
quote:
lets see..
low rg cores help the revless get more revs. advantage? yes! talent? No!
braces help consistency release. advantage? yes talent? no!
blocked lanes? advantage? yes? talent? no
None of this matters if you can't release the ball correctly.
quote:
braces keep your wrist locked. advantage? No
THen why use them if not needed medically?
quote:
Regardless though, when they were referred to as crutches-- that is a correct statement. It's not a slam but those of who use them should be able to admit they are a crutch. It's not a different way to bowl, it's a way to help make your release consistent without having to do any other type of work. More power to you if you want to use them, but they are crutches. Use what's best for your game but don't get defensive when the truth is spelled out.
THank you. That's all I was trying to say, over and over and over again.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: omegabowler on January 08, 2004, 03:24:58 PM
counter point made when I said
quote:
hitting the same spot on the lane at the same speed using all of the above?
advantage? NO! talent yes!
I said this
quote:
braces keep your wrist locked. advantage? No
Until you have mastered a release and be consistent with it, you do not know what you are giving up in subtle split second adjustments for a poor swing/timing.
do you need to? maybe, maybe not. under the scenario of a bowler with a brace:
he will have to learn to be better in the swing plane to hit his mark every time.
let me explain this to you , I have been there done that. without a brace on you don't necessarily do it perfect every time you have the advantage of making up for small imperfections. this is an entire skill set that must be learned. so with out the brace on and my normal high rev release I can start with a medium amount of cupped wrist. if I tug it. I can weaken my wrist at release point and let it slide more. there are other things I was able to due. but that is another story.
no, a brace bowler doesn't have that adjustment. he has to be more consistent in the swing path because if you tug it with a brace you can't kill it. if your on tough lanes you can watch it hit the seven. so with no brace ,means more talent at release point is needed. with a brace better swing path is needed.
the only real people I see with this kind of talent to do both are some top notch amateurs and PBA PRo's.
that accounts for about 2% of bowlers. do still think that an amateur asking about a brace dose not need one unless he is crippled?
if it is your( including all crutch believers)personal goal an judgement for yourself that you don't need it. then that is a great goal to have IMO.
But I don't think that advice serves the needs of those that don't have that idealistic goal. you are preaching your beliefs and not giving instruction advice.
let's take your fist statement:
quote:
Is there a medical condition that you have that makes you need the brace? If not, then why use it? would you walk on crutches if you didn't have to?
you asked if it was medical. that fine then you go into "I'm better than you mode" with the rest of your statement.
you never asked if he is going to turn pro, enter tournaments, takes lessons, practices 3 hours a day at it. you don't even know if he just has a weak wrist or an untrained one. you don't know his style? maybe he is a cranker and is better served with learning to stroke the ball? don't know.
so my whole line is to open up the spectrum here and say there is a difference between giving advice and giving demeaning preaching.
either you see it or you don't.
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"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny
Edited on 1/8/2004 4:31 PM
Post by: no1bucsfan on January 08, 2004, 05:35:28 PM
How many times do I have to tell you that what I said was my opinion, and not a fact. If you felt demeaned by what I said, maybe you should think about why you feel that way, and not who made you feel that way.
If you wear a brace for medical reasons, more power to you, at least you are still bowling.
If you wear one to give yourself confidence, o.k., whatever works for ya. I guess it's better than carrying a giant pink stuffed teddy bear.
If you wear one because you cant release the ball properly, and want something that can do it for you without learning how to do it yourself, fine, whatever floats your boat.
It's that simple, I have given my opinion one more time. Repeated myself one more time. It's getting old now, so can we drop it.
If I hurt anyone's feelings about wearing their wrist braces when they don't need them, then I am sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sorry that you felt demeaned by a bowler with a 130 average.
I'm done.
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You can always hit em hard when you've got the balls
Lefties are the only people in their right minds.
no1bucsfan
Post by: Steven on January 08, 2004, 06:13:08 PM
Whatever benefit you get from additional release consistency, you lose in release flexibility. There are times when simply switching balls is not the answer, and that can be real frustrating.
Medical problems or not, there are times when I need flexibility, so I simply take the brace off (which I can do for short periods). I had to do it last night to save the set. Come to think of it, I can't think of the last tournament where I kept a brace on for the total duration.
Just remember the next time you see someone with a brace, they're not getting the benefits many believe exist. If it's their version of a security blanket (for whatever reason), let them enjoy -- if they're going against you, that brace will not be the difference between a win and a loss.
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"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on January 08, 2004, 07:19:44 PM
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15 years and still going strong! 15 years old that is!
DA DA DAAAAAA!! UP UP AND AWAY! TO THE BAT CAVE ROBIN!