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Author Topic: A couple of rules questions  (Read 14336 times)

dR3w

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A couple of rules questions
« on: March 28, 2011, 02:18:23 AM »
Hi,

 

A couple of instances have come up in league recently and I went over to Bowl.com to check the rules, and didn't see the answers.  So if anyone could chime in, I would really appreciate it.

 

1. I saw a bowler messing around at the end of a league night.  He was throwing the ball between his legs on his first ball.  I thought this would result in zeroes for all frames in the game.  I didn't see this in the rules.  I was also wondering if this applied to a back up ball as well.  As a right-hander I will shoot the 2-8-10 spare with a backup ball.  Is this legal by the USBC rules?

 

2. I am the lead-off bowler on my team.  I threw my first shot and left a pin.  The equipment had issues and before they were fixed, it was my turn to bowl on the other lane.  I thought that I could not bowl my 1st ball of the next frame before finishing up my current frame ... is that correct?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Drew


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Xx 12 X 300 xX

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 10:24:15 AM »
1.  You can pretty much throw it anyway you want to as long as you keep using the hand you started the night with.  You can throw it two handed, back up etc.  You CAN NOT SWITCH to your opposite hand to make a delivery in USBC play.  
 
  Now somebody could say you are sandbagging if your throwing it through your legs, generally this is a pissed off bowler who had a bad night.  I would just let it ride and chalk it up as not my business, instead of getting in an argument with the bowler.  The only issue would be if he is throwing it granny style and he is not covering up the gripping holes with his BOWLING hand.  If he is not covering up the holes with his BOWLING hand, this would count as an illegal delivery. If he is putting his hand into the ball, and then throwing it through his legs, its a legal delivery but suspect sandbagging.
 
2.  Why would you start frame #2 if you did not complete frame #1 yet.   Common sense would say you would wait till you can shoot your spare, and then start frame #2. 

 
 
 
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 3/28/2011 at 10:30 AM
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icefiction

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 10:38:31 AM »
I am afraid you are wrong about the delivery. According to USBC you are not allowed to throw it between your leagues, unless you always do. They consider that a change of delivery. Now I know this sounds ridiculous because they allow you to go from one hand to two hands, but i have directly asked them before how going between your leagues is considered a change in delivery but going from one handed to two handed is not, and I was simply told thats just the way it is; even after lengthy discussions and a request for a clear concise of "change of delivery," they still have yet to put into words their definition of change of delivery. 



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dR3w

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 10:44:57 AM »

 




icefiction wrote on 3/28/2011 10:38 AM:I am afraid you are wrong about the delivery. According to USBC you are not allowed to throw it between your leagues, unless you always do. They consider that a change of delivery. Now I know this sounds ridiculous because they allow you to go from one hand to two hands, but i have directly asked them before how going between your leagues is considered a change in delivery but going from one handed to two handed is not, and I was simply told thats just the way it is; even after lengthy discussions and a request for a clear concise of "change of delivery," they still have yet to put into words their definition of change of delivery


That was my impression as well.

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Xx 12 X 300 xX

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 11:03:26 AM »
My local USBC rep says the opposite.  As long as the hand is in the ball, you can throw it anyway you want to.  You could be the backwards bowler if you wanted to.
 
It seems the USBC and the people that are associated with the USBC are not on the same page when it comes to their own rules. 


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Fresh n Clean

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 11:10:22 AM »
It is my understanding that you may bowl between your legs or with a back-up as long as it is with the hand that you have an established average with.  Looking at the rule as it is written: 

Rule 328 - Changing Delivery


In handicap and classified tournaments, once the bowler has taken his/her first shot, he/she shall continue


to use that hand throughout the tournament...
 
I would have to assume that the rule for tournaments would carry over to league play.  If it is written differently somewhere else, please share.


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On Further Review

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 05:12:19 PM »
You are not breaking any USBC rules by throwing the ball in the unorthodox ways mentioned so long as you don't use the opposite hand, but if by doing so you are trying to establish an average below your ability, that would be considered sandbagging and there is an improper conduct rule to deal with such things.


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Herndogger

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 06:16:41 PM »
Well, rule 118 B/2 states it is a violation and results in a forfeit of his game. The rest of the teams scores will be counted. This is considered a change in delivery even if made with the established hand. I am sure the rule is open for debate but, that is how it is stated in the rule book. (Bowl.com online rule book Section 118)

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TTforshort

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 07:18:00 PM »

This is a quote from the USBC Rules FAQ.
 
A bowler decides to throw at a spare   by delivering their bowling ball between their legs. Would this be considered   a change in delivery and a violation of Rule 118b?

The bowler has changed or deviated from their   normal delivery which is a violation of Rule 118b. This rule provides   a penalty of forfeiture of the individual’s/team’s game in which this   action occurred.

The key word is "normal."
 
TT


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“A word to the wise ain’t necessary — it’s the stupid ones that need the advice.”

dR3w

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2011, 07:51:23 AM »
I wrote the USBC ... this is their response:

 

Dear Drew,
 
This is in response to your email below.
 
If a bowler normally delivers the ball with his right hand and then changes to throw the ball between his legs, that would be considered a change in delivery.  Anytime a bowler changes delivery, the game the bowler changes delivery would be subject to forfeiture according to USBC rule 118b.
 
Should you have any questions, feel free to contact us.
Derek Eoff

 

Rules Counselor


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AngloBowler

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Re: A couple of rules questions
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2011, 05:23:08 AM »
So, as long as you throw it differently every time (a mix of through the legs, back up, conventional hook, lofting the heads, etc.) then you could be said to not have a "normal" delivery making anything delivered with your right hand legal?


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