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General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: THEICEMAN on March 06, 2007, 11:49:58 PM

Title: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: THEICEMAN on March 06, 2007, 11:49:58 PM: I have a question for the upper crust bowlers that read these forums. What are your thoughts on targeting the break point over arrows, etc? Reason I'm asking is this. On tough shots I tend to be able to throw the ball in the hole but I can't carry. I'm guessing because with trying to make the ball "fit" I'm not loose. Last year at Nationals I started to play with the idea of targeting the 43' break indicators rather than the arrows. I don't actually target the arrows either but about 5 feet beyond. I find it keeps me from setting it short. Anyway, I found it allowed me to make a much more loose or relaxed shot while also allowing some aggresiveness. What I decided to do was since I had three nights left, including last night before we head to Reno was to target the 43' break just to get really comfortable throwing at it. I felt like I threw well and was either right over the top or easily within a board to either side on all but a handful of shots. I know it isn't the same as a flatter pattern but one thing you do get on a house shot, especially playing deep, is you are in the middle puddle a lot longer than normal so the ball will squirt as well if you goose it. But the end result I'm trying to get here of being comfortable and relaxed targeting that dark indicator should only help on tougher pattern? The guys I bowl with noticed that the ball was much more consistant at the arrows than I normally am and asked what I was doing. I didn't have the handfull of misses in or out that I normally would during a league session that makes you kind of say WHOOPS!! Pretty much pegged 4th arrow all night. Thanks.

theiceman
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: THEICEMAN on March 07, 2007, 08:54:09 AM: BUMP
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: Fluff E Bunnie on March 07, 2007, 08:54:42 AM: Hmm no show from the upper crust?
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Thunderstruck $olid.
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: Ragnar on March 07, 2007, 09:04:45 AM: I don't think I'm "upper crust", but here's my take. I target anywhere from the arrows to near the pins, depending on a couple of things: the need to get the ball downlane, thru the heads, before reacting and to free up my swing (as you said). Your comment about staying in the puddle longer is correct - that's why, as lanes dry out, I'll target deeper and deeper so as not to bump the dry too soon. In targeting deeper I find that I reach more toward the target which probably does a lot to keep the ball on line better.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are, Dimitri."
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: dizzyfugu on March 07, 2007, 09:36:16 AM: Also no "upper crust" here, just my thoughts... I use the arrows for targeting, and stick to them. There had been (short) times when I experimented with a target further down the lane, but it was no good because I found my approch movements being off-line and inconsistent.

Using the arrows made it also much easier for me to focus on some spot than on an area far down the lane, and the fact that I rather let gravity rule and the ball do its job on its own convinced me to just stay on the arrows and more or less blend out anything down the lane for targeting.

The ball will break conistently if I hit my mark in the front part of the lane, and the ball's carry in the pins will tell if the entry angle is O.K. and if I have to adjust. In fact, I do not pay too much attention to the break point at all, rather on the back end consequences (if the ball goes Brooklyn after a good shot etc.).

This works for me very well, either with down-and-in shots, but also for belly shots in the 4th arrow area. I just blend out the mid lane, and this makes targeting quite easy for me, even if I have to go long ways to the gutter and back when the lane dictates so.

After release, I keep up my position and watch the ball reaction at the break point and back end AFTER it went by the arrows. But that's just to control overall ball reaction, not targeting at all.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
"Put some make-up on your face - Make this world a better place!"
Kahimi Karie, 'Good morning world'

Edited on 3/7/2007 10:46 AM
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: agroves on March 07, 2007, 09:36:48 AM: I pick a board down the lane to for my breakpoint. Then, I pick my arrow board. Then, I make sure my alignment is good and thats it.

I know lots of guys that target deep. Some are very good at it, others aren't.

Andrew
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Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: novawagonmaster on March 07, 2007, 09:41:58 AM: Not upper crust here, but I'll offer my experience.

I am not comfortable leaving my focus at the breakpoint. When I have experimiented with it, I had a tendency to throw "throught" it instead of "to" it.

I select my breakpoint, then mentally strike a line back through the arrows. I will move my focus a few feet beyond the arrows when I need to keep firm to get the ball down lane.
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Jon (in Ohio)
CHROME WON'T GET YOU HOME!
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Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: kdameyer on March 07, 2007, 11:17:58 AM: I am not upper crust either, but I will give my $.02 worth also.

I use a method much like nova. I select my breakpoint, draw a line back thru which arrow I want to hit, then figure out where I need to stand from there.
I then focus on the target at the arrows as I throw the ball.
I think the key from here is to watch your ball trajectory as it goes thru "both" targets. It is real easy to hit your arrow target, but miss the breakpoint target.
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: cnimsk on March 07, 2007, 11:34:32 AM: An advantage to focusing on the arrows vs. further down the lane is, if looking further down the lane your head is slightly higher and you are more likely to see other things happening around and break your concentration. With the arrows, your head is down more, in theory. Just my idea anyway. I use the arrows exclusively. At times that gets me in trouble if you will because I'm ready to go and have to be reminded that I don't have pins yet!

Chuck
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: backswing_aplenty on March 07, 2007, 11:37:30 AM: I agree with kdameyer's system of lining up your breakpoint with the arrows and then lining up your body with that line you've created in your mind. The difficulties I see in what you are trying to explain is in what you are targeting and what you are hitting.

What you target (i.e. look at) could change dramtically whether you are trying to get the ball down the lane or gt the ball on to the lane early. But what you are trying to hit should be pretty similar everywhere you go.

For me the arrows are only used to line my body up to my breakpoint. I actually look down at just in front of the first dots pretty much everywere I go. I don't pick the ball up off my hand until almost after the arrows so I wouldn't know what I hit at the arrows anyway. I damn sure know what I hit at my breakpoint though, no matter if it's at 35 feet or 45 feet the breakpoint is what's important.

The arrows are a good way to target but you can nail the 10 board all day from all over the lane with different angles and miss the breakpoint every time.

So target wherever you feel comfortable but make sure that you're hitting your breakpoint.

*backswing
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*...Got the 5 out clean!

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Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: DukeHarding on March 07, 2007, 11:55:56 AM: Not "upper crust" whatever that means.

I believe in targeting anywhere from the foul line to the end of the lane.
Whatever works. Sometimes nothing works. That's what makes this game so interesting/frustrating/addicting.

I average 30-40 pins higher on synthetics with "down lane" markers.
My eyesight limits my targeting to shooting at large contrasting areas on the lane. I don't see the arrows (except on video playback).

On most lane beds I watch the follow through of my bowling arm, and follow the ball down the lane. I lack depth perception, so the foul line and the head pin look like they are at the same distance. My vision focuses at 35 feet, anything closer is pretty funky looking.

Just thought I'd share another viewpoint.

Do whatever it takes to get the ball to the pocket.
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Duke Harding

www.dukeharding.com

"They say, Duke Harding has nice balls."

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Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: THEICEMAN on March 07, 2007, 11:58:49 AM: My thinking and reason to do this are more for a really tough shot, like Nationals where the lanes aren't as forgiving. On a normal league pattern if you target the arrows and miss a board or so wide the ball screams back. If you miss in the ball will hold rather than cross over. On a flatter pattern like Nationals if you miss out at the arrows a board you go washout or bucket, worse if you miss by more. If you miss in you go nose or left. I'm still going to target arrows in league, it's just right now with Bowling in Reno next week I figured I'd use these next three nights to throw at the breakpoint instead. I find it does free up my swing as Ragnor has also said. I'm not trying to be so fine at the arrows and trying to "fit" the ball which as I've said kills my carry even though I am in the hole. And as Minx said it does tend keep your head still. Last night as I said there wasn't any of those shots we all throw once in awhile where you ask yourself "where was I throwing that one?" It just seems like it helps to take an out of bounds out of play or mellows it. I would agree on a league shot with the overexagerated puddle in the middle it's probably better to go around some of it. I was standing 37 last night and just purely threw at 10 at 43' so I was in that puddle pretty much to the end of the pattern. Normally I'd be 40 or left throwing about 17 out to 8 at say 40'. On a pattern with OOB (which I tried to think there was) that shot stays out at 8. I was just wondering if anyone else thinks it's more advantagous on a tough pattern to target breakpoint. It does take some getting used to because at first you do want to extend to that dark board. But as I have played around with it a little more it's gotten easier. Sorry I'm so long winded. Riggs, what are your thoughts? Your on tour and I know alot of the time your level throws at breakpoints or so I'm told.

theiceman
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: Aloarjr810 on March 07, 2007, 01:12:39 PM: Ron Clifton had a couple of good articles about this in "Top Techniques" in Bowlling This Month.
The issue's are-
BTM Vol.13, #6 June/July 2006, Page 56 "Breakpoints and Target Lines"
BTM Vol.13, #8 September 2006, Page 14 "Breakpoint Zones"

He explains about doing this very thing. It's a great article and I have been
using it for quite awhile.
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: Lane1Redneck on March 07, 2007, 01:41:39 PM: Upper Crust..lol. NOT.. but I'll give it shot too here..

I target a board at the arrows and a board at my break point.. Thus hitting my line rather then just a mark..

My thoughts for going for such a broad targeting point rather then a mark or board of some sort is this..

Before I bowled, I shot archery competitively for 6 years.. 3D's 300 rnds and Penn Dutch..
All the "Crust" in archery taught

"YOU'LL HIT DEAD CENTER OF A GOLF BALL FASTER THEN YOU'LL HIT DEAD CENTER OF A BASKETBALL"

You eyes will focus on the smaller object better then a larger one..
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F.O.S

Jeff
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: BrianCRX90 on March 07, 2007, 02:29:00 PM: I also target the arrows then shift my eyes to my breakpoint.
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: THEICEMAN on March 07, 2007, 02:32:31 PM: addik:
The thing with the board down the lane is I'm fortunate enough to bowl exclusively on Brunswick Proanvilhang. They have the 3 foot long dark boards at 10 and 15 at the break point. Believe me if you haven't seen them they stick out like a sore thumb. If you watched the tour Sunday they had them and PDW was the only one who had a board either side of it and could still hit the hole. Other guys, even if they where on top of it tended to have a different reaction depending on how much they grabed it. But as light as these lanes are, and the contrast of the brown they're tough to miss.

theiceman
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: DukeHarding on March 07, 2007, 03:10:54 PM: quote:
addik:
The thing with the board down the lane is I'm fortunate enough to bowl exclusively on Brunswick Proanvilhang. They have the 3 foot long dark boards at 10 and 15 at the break point. Believe me if you haven't seen them they stick out like a sore thumb. If you watched the tour Sunday they had them and PDW was the only one who had a board either side of it and could still hit the hole. Other guys, even if they where on top of it tended to have a different reaction depending on how much they grabed it. But as light as these lanes are, and the contrast of the brown they're tough to miss.

theiceman

iceman,

How do you target the BP if you don't have the downlane marker?
If I walk into a center that is not Proanvilane, I don't really want to shoe up, as I can't target the BP....
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Duke Harding

www.dukeharding.com

"They say, Duke Harding has nice balls."

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Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: myrddin97 on March 07, 2007, 03:23:47 PM: Edit:

Attempting to remove my foot from my mouth.

Edited on 3/7/2007 6:02 PM
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: DukeHarding on March 07, 2007, 04:20:49 PM: quote:
quote:

How do you target the BP if you don't have the downlane marker?
If I walk into a center that is not Proanvilane, I don't really want to shoe up, as I can't target the BP....

Did I really just read that? I just can't think of a response that I can put on these boards.

Check your PMs
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Duke Harding

www.dukeharding.com

"They say, Duke Harding has nice balls."

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Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: charlest on March 07, 2007, 05:50:13 PM: quote:
I don't think I'm "upper crust", but here's my take. I target anywhere from the arrows to near the pins, depending on a couple of things: the need to get the ball downlane, thru the heads, before reacting and to free up my swing (as you said). Your comment about staying in the puddle longer is correct - that's why, as lanes dry out, I'll target deeper and deeper so as not to bump the dry too soon. In targeting deeper I find that I reach more toward the target which probably does a lot to keep the ball on line better.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
"I'm capable of being just as sorry as you are, Dimitri."

Way not upper crust; more like lower sludge, but I do like Rags says.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: Sawuser on March 07, 2007, 06:05:53 PM: I've been targeting strictly breakpoint for about 3 years now. Once the breakpoint has been established it's much easier to adjust body position to keep the shot in the pocket. I wear slightly tinted glasses to reduce lane glare & just focus on the area. I usually allow 2 boards on each side of my target, & at 40 to 45 feet, that's not that bad. Breakpoint targeting for me seems much more forgiving than targeting arrows. Another poster said something about if you hit the dry boards too early you can't get to the breakpoint. Well yeah! If you hit dry boards early, the breakpoint moves to where you hit the dry boards. You must stand left far enough & allow the oil to carry your ball to the actual breakpoint area. Anyway, works for me.
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Righty
Think about it!

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Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: BrianCRX90 on March 07, 2007, 09:40:02 PM: I don't know of one center in my area that have downmarkers. In fact, I've never bowled on one. Is Proanvil the only one that makes it? It's really not that big of a deal to have them. At most centers there is a differential between light and dark boards. That is all I need.

What is difficult to me is one center I know is 100% light wood and all 39 boards are the same color. I have to line up for example the second arrow and trail it 30-40 feet downlane
Title: Re: Your thoughts on targeting break points?
Post by: THEICEMAN on March 08, 2007, 07:20:03 AM: Thats pretty much what I do in centers without the indicators. I'll look at second arrow and trace it down to 40' or so and throw it there. Some, like Bowlero in Milwaukee have the overlays and the boards are lighter in groups which makes it easier to follow down lane. Like the second arrow is in the middle of a group of 3 lighter boards. But remember I'm only using this on tougher shots. For the most I'm normally targeting about 5 feet past the arrows on a normal house condition. The breakpoint targeting just seems to allow me to be more accurate where the ball turns to the pocket on the tougher patterns where you don't have 2 or 3 boards on either side of your mark.

theiceman