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Author Topic: Youth to Adult  (Read 2826 times)

HamPster

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Youth to Adult
« on: July 04, 2004, 05:39:53 AM »
I know, this is coming from Hamster's point of view, but the way I see it, you really can't argue with numbers.  That being said, I'll offer the opinions delved from my many many months of experience with the subject.  

When I was in youth, all I ever heard was that the adults were all big bad youth eating giants that never shot a game under 230 and couldn't be beat.  I had a buddy go up when I'd just started my third year in youth (I was 21, btw) he said it was totally different, and he didn't really like it.  He said he had 260's shot at him every week, and couldn't hold a candle to them.  He was about a 195 average though, so he didn't shoot huge numbers very often.  

However, another guy I knew went up the year before that, and notching 3 300's and a single 800 between the ages of 5 and 19, proceeded to shoot 300-818 his first night in adult leagues, and that was a set after he shot 755 in the early league to start his "career" off.  I think he shot another couple 300's, another 800, and a 299 that year also.  

Had a couple friends that went up with me last year.  One had a 298 as his only honor score (age 19), and the other's closest was a 280-something (age 16).  The older one shot 297-803 as well as 3 300's last year, and also is currently in the top 25 for singles at nats in Reno.  I believe he'll also be one of the top 10 male adults in the city in composite average.  The younger one shot a pair of 300's, one being in an area-wide tournament.  I, bowling sub-par, at least managed a 299 and a career high series of 774, while cashing in every event in the city (handicapped with the exception of scratch all-events) tournament.  

The best adult in the city had a tally of 5 300's and 4 800's (set a house record at 837 in a 6 year old house with notoriously difficult carry), while another had 3 800's and 4 300's, followed by another with 5 300's.  

Now my longwinded question is why are all youths looked on as house shot hacks that just spray and pray?  More often than not, the youths have to bowl on leftovers from the night before, while the lanes are freshly oiled before a good percentage of adult leagues.  

But, on the other side, there are 2 things I see the adults having as a decided advantage.  Experience and consistency.  When the (scratch) rookies have bad games, they're in the 160's or 170's.  When the (scratch) adults have bad games, they're in the 190's or 200's.  Horrible rookie games are 150's, horrible adult games are 170's.  

In closing, I think both sides need to come to the middle of the road.  Youths are more talented than ever, and adults aren't just speed bumps, most of them are walls.
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JoeBowler

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2004, 10:32:34 PM »
And some bowl a year ang quit.

Why? Because most are spray and pray.

Just like the majority or typical house bowlers.


channel surfer

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2004, 10:48:38 PM »
We have A LOT of talented adult bowlers around here. I can only think of about 3 or 4 youth bowlers who may be able to compete with them. However, most youth are better than adults, but a lot of youth bowlers are full of themselfs.

A legend in their own mind is how most of them are. But we do have some adult bowlers around here that are "legends in their own minds". And 90% of them are pro shop owners, that couldnt layout a ball to save their lives.
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HamPster

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2004, 10:54:55 PM »
quote:
And some bowl a year ang quit.

Why? Because most are spray and pray.

Just like the majority or typical house bowlers.





Haha, nice shot.  Something's wrong with my arm, excuuuuuse me.  So I'm gonna bowl lefthanded.  Watch out, I could be dangerous . .  You know what they say about walking a mile.
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2004, 10:58:17 PM »
The only reason I want to go to adult leagues is not because I think I can beat all the adults, its cuz I know I can beat all the kids. Its no challenge.
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!

Edited on 7/4/2004 10:54 PM

channel surfer

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2004, 11:06:31 PM »
quote:
quote:
The only reason I want to go to adult leagues is not because I think I can beat all the adults, its cuz I know I can beat all the kids. Its no challenge.



...you carry a 160-170 average.
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ouch. BK, gabe pretty much just kicked you in the nuts on that one.
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UCIbowl

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2004, 11:06:36 PM »
i think that is bull. i am 19 (just turned 19 btw) and this was my first season out of youths and i have been cashin in every event i have bowled in. you guys cant handle the youth of today... we are better, talent and equiptment, and we are ready to compete. currently i am carryin around 240+ tourney average on the last two five gamers i shot, maybe not sayin much but its all i have time to show up for. i bowled one league this year cuz i am a full time student and have a full time job. i also golf, play basketball, and tennis competively, so i have to spread my time. In fact i shot bills last night. five gamers shot 1240 and 1200 back to back. i practice once a week other than when i bowl a tourney but no matter i still come to compete and win and do just that.
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TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2004, 11:07:07 PM »
Im averaging in the 180's right now, but thats not the point. The kids in my leagues are like 120 average bowlers.
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!

TheBowlingKid25

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2004, 11:13:05 PM »
quote:
quote:
quote:
The only reason I want to go to adult leagues is not because I think I can beat all the adults, its cuz I know I can beat all the kids. Its no challenge.



...you carry a 160-170 average.
--------------------
www.BEN-HARPER.net


ouch. BK, gabe pretty much just kicked you in the nuts on that one.
--------------------
www.csbowling.vze.com

www.bowlersdream.com - save an additional $3 off any $100 order by simply typing in CSB into the coupon code area at checkout.
*falls to ground and squirms*
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16 years and still going strong! 16 years old that is! The names Warrior Princess, Xena..Warrior Princess
And why would I "saw" pins in half, THATS A WASTE OF PINS!

TWOHAND834

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2004, 11:28:54 PM »
Hamster,

I would not quite go that far.  Yes, granted youths are talented.  HOWEVER, how can you justify that they are more talented now than ever?  How do you know that most youths aren't just "products of the resin generation"?  In my days as a youth (mid 1980-early 1990s), it was in the days of urethane.  My youth program was considered at the time to be the best in the nation.  We had 7 kids, just in my division, averaging over 200.  Resin not only made scoring easier on the adults, but on youths as well.  Half of todays youth averaging over 200 probably would only average 180 15-20 years ago.  Same goes for most adults.  There are probably twice the number of adults over 200 as there was 15 or so years ago.  Bowling now is much more technically sound as well as more complicated than it used to be.  I AM NOT taking anything away from the accomplishments from todays youth.  What I am doing is saying that just because there are more honor scores shot today than in the past, doesn't automatically make them more talented.  Ex:  I know a former youth bowler from a couple years ago (went adult last year) that shot a 300 game who has ZERO talent.  He is a right handed bowler who, in his 3rd step, has his entire body facing the wall at the high end of the house, jerks his arm through violently juat to see how many revs he can put on a ball.  Memory serves me correctly.....he was averaging only around 180 when he shot the 300.  

Egos have gotten bigger in both the youth and the adult bowler because of this very thing.  HOWEVER....I will be the FIRST to admit that even though I have x number of 300s and/or 800s, I will have my butt handed to me on a platter if I was to go out and bowl on a PBA type of pattern, due to lack of experience.  

What you need to realize, is that some of these "speed bumps" for adults will take the time to teach these highly talented youths how to bowl if approached in the right manner.  I will be the first to help people in any way I can.  It is when these youths prance around the center like they are PBA material just because they shot that 300 game or whatever.  The reason they are considered "house shot hacks", is because of how they carry themselves on the lanes and off.  Believe me.....we speed bumps know and can tell which are "talented" and which are just lucky or fortunate.  So....to say that you cannot argue with the numbers; in reality, people can argue just because they can and will.
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UCFKnight300

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2004, 11:38:17 PM »
Bowlingkid, don't bowl saturday morning leagues, they don't count.  If thats all you have than try to get your parents to take you somewhere with some competition.  Going adult isn't the answer if you are that young.  Bowl some real tournaments and tell me there isn't any competition in youth.  

I will be going up in the fall though, not to contradict myself.  I've been bowling tournaments since i was like 8.  Need to try to make some real money.

Mike

HamPster

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #11 on: July 05, 2004, 10:07:25 AM »
quote:
Hamster,

I would not quite go that far.  Yes, granted youths are talented.  HOWEVER, how can you justify that they are more talented now than ever?  How do you know that most youths aren't just "products of the resin generation"?  In my days as a youth (mid 1980-early 1990s), it was in the days of urethane.  My youth program was considered at the time to be the best in the nation.  We had 7 kids, just in my division, averaging over 200.  Resin not only made scoring easier on the adults, but on youths as well.  Half of todays youth averaging over 200 probably would only average 180 15-20 years ago.  Same goes for most adults.  There are probably twice the number of adults over 200 as there was 15 or so years ago.  Bowling now is much more technically sound as well as more complicated than it used to be.  I AM NOT taking anything away from the accomplishments from todays youth.  What I am doing is saying that just because there are more honor scores shot today than in the past, doesn't automatically make them more talented.  Ex:  I know a former youth bowler from a couple years ago (went adult last year) that shot a 300 game who has ZERO talent.  He is a right handed bowler who, in his 3rd step, has his entire body facing the wall at the high end of the house, jerks his arm through violently juat to see how many revs he can put on a ball.  Memory serves me correctly.....he was averaging only around 180 when he shot the 300.  

Egos have gotten bigger in both the youth and the adult bowler because of this very thing.  HOWEVER....I will be the FIRST to admit that even though I have x number of 300s and/or 800s, I will have my butt handed to me on a platter if I was to go out and bowl on a PBA type of pattern, due to lack of experience.  

What you need to realize, is that some of these "speed bumps" for adults will take the time to teach these highly talented youths how to bowl if approached in the right manner.  I will be the first to help people in any way I can.  It is when these youths prance around the center like they are PBA material just because they shot that 300 game or whatever.  The reason they are considered "house shot hacks", is because of how they carry themselves on the lanes and off.  Believe me.....we speed bumps know and can tell which are "talented" and which are just lucky or fortunate.  So....to say that you cannot argue with the numbers; in reality, people can argue just because they can and will.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!



Points well taken.  I was more or less trying to point out that I hear a ton of adults whining that the kids have such an easier shot, and one guy in particular really cracked me up.  He said something like "Some of these kids are going to find out that you don't have those 4 or 5 boards anymore in adult leagues, you've got 2 or 3 if you're lucky."  After rolling my eyes, I barely kept myself from saying, "You're right, I don't have 4 or 5 boards anymore, I have 6 or 7."  You made the point that was lost in my rambling.  In today's game, numbers are just numbers.  There was a no-name that shot 800 (and MANY of them that shot 300) this last year in town, and they all carry 180-190 averages.  Perceptions of both groups are off.  The adults aren't pushovers, and the kids don't have it as easy as the adults might think.
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No, really, I like you.  Now, by all means, feel free to go fornicate yourself with a sharp object.

TheDude

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Re: Youth to Adult
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2004, 04:30:26 PM »
so averaging 215-220 for a no hand stroker that is 18 and still loves Jr leagues( the competitive ones) is worthless? lol i have been asked by about 10 different league directors to join there leagues to be team captains in mixed and even one very prestigious retro style men's commerical league.
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