Author Topic: Has anyone...? (Read 2236 times)

jjweb · « **on:** July 08, 2005, 06:04:18 PM »

I filled out the drilling request form and this is the following layout they suggested:

Pin to PAP distance = 3 3/8"
Mass Bias to PAP distance = 4 3/4"
Pin height above the midline of the grip = 2 1/4"

Anyone have one drilled this way? I'm curious about the MB in the forward roll position.

jjweb · « **Reply #1 on:** July 09, 2005, 11:26:59 AM »

How dramatic of a reaction difference is it putting the MB at 4 3/4" (forward roll) versus MB at 6" (as per the sharp break layout)?

C-G ProShop-Carl · « **Reply #2 on:** July 09, 2005, 11:59:48 AM »

jjweb,

Generally speaking, placing the MB at 6 inches is also placing it left of thumb. I know what the placement charts say, but left of thumb usually ends up being a very control type reaction.

One thing I would do is check back with MoRich, because it tells you to place the MB at 4 3/4, but where? It does not tell you the placement of the MB as far as using the MB placement chart. You can have a ball with that pin placment and MB distance, and the MB could end up on your VAL.

-EX-

jjweb · « **Reply #3 on:** July 09, 2005, 12:32:10 PM »

I got to thinking about that too. I looked at the charts from the 'Future of Ball Motion' presentation and I see it falling near the VAL. I was looking for a sharp angular move, not really an arc.

I sent MoRich an email asking them...

Something interesting about the layout chart, almost all of the sharp breakpoint layouts put the MB 6"+ from the PAP.

charlest · « **Reply #4 on:** July 11, 2005, 08:13:51 PM »

Okay, Guys (Precision and bowldoc4u),

Not being a driller, but having some learned and some common sense (enough to get me into a whole lotta trouble), I was told (don't recall who) that the Vanguard core was MAJOR DIFFERENT in that the flare was towards the thumb and not towards the fingers (not sure which is X-axis and which is Y-aixs and what is Z-axis), without regard to the existence weight holes. (Yes, I know that asymmetric cores have a PSA fixated, so to speak,at one end on the Mass bias.)

Now you both seem to agree on the Vanguard core rotating around the Y-axis without hoels and the X-axis when there is a WH.

1. What is the X-axis, Y-axis (to refresh my memory) with respect to PAP, CG and finger/thumb holes AND MB.
2. What is the truth here?

Got my notepad at the ready.
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Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.

J_Mac · « **Reply #5 on:** July 11, 2005, 08:17:11 PM »

quote:
I have not spun a drilled vanguard on a determinator, but if you put a piece of tape on the pin and throw a shot, you will see the pin get close to axis within its flare migration. It won't totally line up x but its much much closer that Y on the lane. I have seen the pins pop up on axis on other bowlers vanguards, but they usually continue to flare by them. Try it, or email FC or Mo.

The Doc

This may sound crazy, but I notice the same thing with the Power Grooves from Brunswick.
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American beer is like making love in a canoe. It's f*cking close to water. - Monty Python

If God had intended us to drink beer, He would have given us stomachs. - David Daye

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** July 12, 2005, 02:28:41 PM »

quote:
In regards to the questions about the Brunswick Power Groove......

The Power Groove is kind of like a wolf wrapped up in a sheepâ€™s clothing; remember that it is an asymmetrical cored ball with a PK17 cover. And yes, the Power Grooves do have a PSA. What's special about the Power Groove is where the PSA is (the distance from the pin). Power Grooves usually (I say usually because it does vary due to manufacturing) spin to about 5" from the pin and usually hold that point after drilling. If you understand the dynamics of this core you can use the same techniques used on the stronger asymmetrics in regards to drilling layouts, there are no surprises with this ball if you know what the ball really is.

Precision

Edited on 7/12/2005 1:58 PM

I asked just this question over o the Brunswick forum and, OF COURSE, got no reply from anyone.

That 5", is that from the pin thru the the CG. as per usual, or do you need to spin the darn thing?
--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.

Next Level PS · « **Reply #7 on:** July 13, 2005, 12:19:03 AM »

Man I glad to see this type of post again. It takes me back to the day of KOTM, T-God, Constatine and Precision going at it with each other, talking about flat spots on cores and educating us. this is like 2002 all over again.

Well those Power Grooves usally MB around 5 1/2 like those old ebonite cores designs that were in some of the Apex lines.

If you could catch for $125 range thats better deal than that Elite crap for $289.
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www.nextlevelproshop.com

Edited on 7/13/2005 10:24 AM

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** July 13, 2005, 08:09:38 AM »

quote:

quote:
That 5", is that from the pin thru the the CG. as per usual, or do you need to spin the darn thing?

you have to spin the darned thing, charlie... lol.
--------------------
kotm

Damn this new technology!
First personal computers, then Determinators.
Where's the Verminator when yoo need her?

--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.

toomanytenpins · « **Reply #9 on:** July 18, 2005, 10:43:56 AM »

my ball driller discounted the fact that i brought mo's, recommendations for drilling in with me and drilled the ball the way he wanted,he actually drilled the ring finger hole into the pin the pin is at 4:00 with an 1/8 in cut out dont knopw how to locate val or pap but i think that puts me about 5 or so inches from the val tha ball did react well but never in oil it never rolls up .should i ask him to redrill it or is this a set up i should leave for weaker shots even though i bought it for heavy oil.I have 4 in pin 3oz top cg pin an mb in line 1.125 in wt hole below and right of mb,low rev med. speed bowler more comfortable swinging ball than playing up the boards.

nandosze · « **Reply #10 on:** July 18, 2005, 11:35:35 AM »

Sounds like you need a new ball driller. My guy doesnt drill Mo's stuff but had no problem with me bringing in all the info and drilled it the way I wanted it and I totally love this ball so far. I have not had too many opportunities to throw it since its the off season, but it will get plenty of use soon. Maybe you can ask for recommendations on a new driller in your area in the drilling section and try someone new.

O

charlest · « **Reply #11 on:** July 18, 2005, 12:20:38 PM »

quote:
my ball driller discounted the fact that i brought mo's, recommendations for drilling in with me and drilled the ball the way he wanted,he actually drilled the ring finger hole into the pin the pin is at 4:00 with an 1/8 in cut out dont knopw how to locate val or pap but i think that puts me about 5 or so inches from the val tha ball did react well but never in oil it never rolls up .should i ask him to redrill it or is this a set up i should leave for weaker shots even though i bought it for heavy oil.I have 4 in pin 3oz top cg pin an mb in line 1.125 in wt hole below and right of mb,low rev med. speed bowler more comfortable swinging ball than playing up the boards.

I'd suspect that unless you have very strong revs, 5" pin to PAP will not be suitable for heavy oil. Of course, it depends on which ball it is (you didn't say). The rest can be fine. WHat is your PAP and is it consistent? You MUST know your own PAP before you can criticize what the driller is doing and you should discuss it with him/her.

Putting the pin beneath the ring finger is neither bad nor good, for most people; it may be the most appropriate position for you, the ball and what you need to get from it.
--------------------
Bowling: Just like hand grenades and horse shoes, you only have to get close.
Life: Deal with what is.

toomanytenpins · « **Reply #12 on:** July 18, 2005, 05:55:37 PM »

i went back to my ball driller and i owe him an apology he is the pro i am the wanna be bowler he had the ball drilled as was demonstrated on the layout me not knowing where the pap and val are by site i wasn't measuring correctly so the ball is drilled as it should be, he sanded it to 320 and i couldn't use it on the 38 foot house shot,had to bag it it wouldn't get thru the heads not enough oil,played my oracle it got thru the heads but dry backends sent to high.same old story you never what if u have what u need till its too late nowhere to practice the oil shots

Author Topic: Has anyone...? (Read 2236 times)

jjweb

Has anyone...?

jjweb

Re: Has anyone...?

C-G ProShop-Carl

Re: Has anyone...?

jjweb

Re: Has anyone...?

charlest

Re: Has anyone...?

J_Mac

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charlest

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Next Level PS

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charlest

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toomanytenpins

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nandosze

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charlest

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toomanytenpins

Re: Has anyone...?