Post by: Doug Sterner on March 28, 2005, 11:38:21 AM
I picked up a used Ravage on ebay. It was drilled lefty so I wanted to plug it up and redo it for myself. Well, I chose to start with the thumbhole. Upon removing the thumbslug I noticed that there was a small hole under the "mass bias pin." I didn't think anything of it since I see this all of teh time with Storm balls.
Well I poured up the thumbhole and walked away. I came back to the plugging area in the shop less than a minute later and the hole was empty!!!! Yes a 1-1/4" thumbslug hole empty in under 60 seconds! Well I turned the ball around and the plug had run out of the MIDDLE FINGER HOLE!!!! Now the ball was drilled for inserts so the fingers were not that deep. The bottom of the ring finger hole did touch the pin though.
My only thought was that the mass bias pin and main pin were connected and somehow there was a void in the core causing the plug material to find a way out.
So I email MoRich and ask if the ball could be warranted and replaced for a cracked/separated core. here is my exact message followed by their reply...
"I Just picked up a used Ravage from a lefty and since I am a righty I decided to plug it up. I started with the thumb tonight and I poured the thumb only to see the level go down in like 30 seconds. I looked and it was running out of the fingerholes. Any idea here if we are dealing with a cracked core or what? Can I get it warrantied? I really want to try this ball and figured this would be a great way but now this. Help?"
Their response
"Hi Doug,
Thanks for taking the time to visit our web site and for the question!
It sounds to me like the fingers and thumb met at the bottom. I have seen this many times in our retail shop, especially with shorter spans or in situations where the fingers where drilled extra deep to remove excess weight. Since the ball has plug in it now, there is now way to find out for sure, but I can say that I have never seen plug run out of another hole, without them being connected. I have seen the level of a freshly filled hole drop because of a core seperation (from the shell), but not from a cracked block.
I would go ahead finish plugging the ball and re-drill it for yourself. I don't feel that there will be anything wrong with it. It really wouldn't fall under a warranty issue now anyways, since it was plugged. If it was a core seperation (which have not been that common at all since we switched to Brunswick), then it would be deemed a defect and we could cover it under warranty.
Regards,
Fred Carroll, Jr
Director of Technical Services
MoRich Enterprises, Inc.
P: 1-877-530-0324
F: 1-804-550-3693"
SO what's the deal? How could I know the core was separated until the plug poured out??? Man I cannot believe they would treat a shop owner this way....
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: nd300 on March 28, 2005, 07:55:06 PM
Could I respectfully suggest sending the ball to them addressed to this guy personally and suggest to him that he plug it for himself and go throw a few games to see the reaction he gets with the core that way versus what should happen?????
I'd be that after he does this then you'll get a new ball.With a letter of apology.
--------------------
Chris
Lane#1--nothing else hits like 'em.
Post by: bowler257628 on March 28, 2005, 08:12:49 PM
quote:
That would probably be a similar response you get from any manufacturer. I think morichs customer service is great. I've gotten a lot of information from them and i don't think there is any problem with that response.
--------------------
Track
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Cody
Post by: Nollster on March 28, 2005, 08:13:46 PM
I would send it to them and see what they do; but, truth be told, I wouldn't expect much. You are at the very least the 2nd owner and MoRich has no way of knowing what happened to the ball to this point and, in my view, has no real responsibility to replace this ball. This is just my opinion.....
Post by: Doug Sterner on March 28, 2005, 08:24:45 PM
#1..."It sounds to me like the fingers and thumb met at the bottom"...do you know how short the span would need to be and how steep the pitches would need to be for that to happen? He must think I am some kind of rookie ball driller here....
#2..."It really wouldn't fall under a warranty issue now anyways, since it was plugged"..the defect was found in the process of plugging. If they have any concern at all they should have me ship them the ball, they can examine it and then either return it to me or send me a new ball.
As for getting the same response from any company that is bull dookey. I have dealt with Storm on several situations and they sided with the pro shop and taken care of business. Lane 1 has never ceased to take care of me either. Track even went so far as to replace a ball that had been plugged and the guy left out in his truck over the winter and it cracked.
The ball had not been plugged until I found the defect....had I known the defect was there, I would not have plugged it. However it's kind of tough to see a core separation on a ball not drilled for you so it cannot be thrown.
Oh well...lesson learned.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: the-7-year-itch on March 28, 2005, 08:24:54 PM
The same thing happened to me on a used onslaught I bought. Because I plugged it it voided the warranty. The onslaught has a 1/8" crack all the way around the ball. I e-mailed them telling them what happened and I got an e-mail saying pretty much tough luck.
--------------------
Bush, Dick,& Colon....these are the people running our country.
Post by: Juggernaut on March 28, 2005, 08:40:27 PM
I believe that I would call one or both of the numbers on the bottom of the return message you got and tell them the situation.
If the person you reach can't or won't help you, then simply ask for their immediate superior and start explaining it again.
Make sure you tell them you own and run a shop in N.Y. and have been doing this for a while and are not just some "dummy" out to try to gip them out of a free ball.
I had sort of the same thing happen once with a manufacturer I will leave nameless ( because a resolution was finally reached) and it took a few calls, but I finally got ahold of someone who understood what I was trying to tell them.
Good Luck.
--------------------
Brunswick will soon own the world.
You must face it.
There is no escape.
Post by: BowlerKidR on March 28, 2005, 08:41:09 PM
--------------------
High Game- 287
3 Game High Series- 808
4 Game High Series- 901
I LIKE TO BOWL
Post by: Doug Sterner on March 28, 2005, 08:53:09 PM
Oh well thanks for the idea though.
Jeremy...that's the issue...the span was about 5"....no way they met....especially with the reverse pitch in the fingerholes.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Edited on 3/28/2005 9:48 PM
Post by: tekneek on March 29, 2005, 06:27:35 AM
On the first of the Blazing I did try to plug the hole, and had the compound disappear as you had. After a second pouring it filled and dried, I'm sure the compound filled the entire void then hardened, I rechecked the weight before and after drilling and all seemed to be ok. I have nothing but good things to say about Mo's customer service dept, I'm sorry you feel you have been treated differently, maybe sending the ball to Fred might help the situation? The last Ravage I drilled for myself the ring finger went half way through the pin, I found the same void, I mearly put a small piece of thumb tape over the hole then glued the insert in place. I'm sure I have the same problem again when I sell the ball, but since then I have been using a quick set epoxy ( 5 min dry time) to patch the pin holes in the shell prior to plugging. I now advoid the pin at all cost on Mo's equipment when laying out a ball, just to avoid this minor problem again.
Post by: kwish on March 30, 2005, 10:09:48 PM
I think you need to read the manufacture's warranty policy, i believe if you read that you might understand that you did void the factory warranty. How did you feel that you were badly treated? Why can't you believe that MORICH did not bed over backwards to please YOU who bought a ball second hand over the internet and voided the warranty just because you own a shop does mean you should get special exemptions on the warranty of a ball that you bought used
Post by: jkiser01 on March 31, 2005, 05:19:27 AM
I have personally called Morich 3 or 4 times and always been treated excellent by Fred and whoever answered the phone. They where courteous and answered any and all questions I had..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that da_n 7 pin (and I am right handed!!)
jkiser01
Post by: Jeffrevs on March 31, 2005, 05:46:52 AM
on a side note I'd like to point out something I noticed last night while watching the qualifying for the World Championship at Taylor Lanes...
I said hi to Mo last night as he walked around and spoke to each person using his equipment. Yes, a small company...but the owner of the company making stops at each set of lanes talking about balls, ball reactions, etc, etc...
You don't see that very often......seems like GREAT customer service to me!!
Which reminds me...here's the owner of a small company making sure everyone's happy during qualifying...and it made me think of WRW the last time he made the show....qualified all week w/ Mo's stuff, tore the place up,...even in practice before the show started..w/ a Morich shirt on even...then right before 'showtime' he changes shirts...grabs his GP2,....and goes on to lose!
I thought of that situation while watching Mo chat up to the guys using his stuff....what a slap in the face to Mo to have WRW do that....because I bet he was w/ WRW during the week making sure he was ok as well........
MoRich Customer Service Sucks ????..............sorry Doug,..you're a respected member of this site, and I know you've been on here a long time and I have no problem/issue w/ you or your shop.....but I'm going to have to disagree w/ that comment......
--------------------
JEFF
"Oh...that's puce"
Sully; Monsters, Inc.
Edited on 3/31/2005 6:49 AM
Post by: jkiser01 on March 31, 2005, 05:56:21 AM
Hey, you have some great comments about Mo.. I agree with you on all of them.
I also meant no disrepect towards Doug or how he conducts his business with my earlier comments, but I really don't feel Morich did anything wrong in this situation. The bottom line is the ball was bought used off Ebay and when you do that you get what you get.. Sometimes you get a great deal and sometimes you don't.. Its a crap shoot..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that da_n 7 pin (and I am right handed!!)
jkiser01
Post by: Jeffrevs on March 31, 2005, 06:01:44 AM
quote:
Jeffrevs,
Hey, you have some great comments about Mo.. I agree with you on all of them.
Thanks! I've met him a couple times.......strange guy...but nice....very blunt! He's a mad scientist I think !!
When I first met him, he was at the house where I have my stuff drilled.,...right after I bought my WoMB....he saw me throw 2 balls....(2), and he leaned into the pro-shop, yelled something at KOTM.....and afterwards I went up to KOTM and asked what that was all about...and he said..."oh...Mo told me to change your ring finger pitch to get the ball out of my hand earlier and lower my track a bit for a better read on the lane!"
I said..."after 2 balls" .....KOTM said...."yup" !
So....that's where I get that "mad scientist" comment
--------------------
JEFF
"Oh...that's puce"
Sully; Monsters, Inc.
Post by: Stjosephkid on March 31, 2005, 06:21:52 AM
--------------------
I'm changing this to make you happy... ok
Post by: Stjosephkid on March 31, 2005, 06:24:39 AM
quote:
Doug
I think you need to read the manufacture's warranty policy, i believe if you read that you might understand that you did void the factory warranty. How did you feel that you were badly treated? Why can't you believe that MORICH did not bed over backwards to please YOU who bought a ball second hand over the internet and voided the warranty just because you own a shop does mean you should get special exemptions on the warranty of a ball that you bought used
Yeah honestly, Doug I know you're a shop owner so you should expect more but like if I did this I probably wouldn't get any response from them at all.
--------------------
I'm changing this to make you happy... ok
Post by: JOE FALCO on March 31, 2005, 06:34:13 AM
I see Doug's point a little different then what you guys are pointing out. I read it that Doug was disappointed that MoRich didn't want to see the ball to determine if THEY have a problem. You would think that someone might want to look at the ball with thoughts of INVESTIGATING! What do you say about this side of his story? Although Dough did email about the WARRANTY .. shouldn't Customer Service have been interested in their PRODUCT?
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Edited on 3/31/2005 7:32 AM
Post by: jkiser01 on March 31, 2005, 06:49:00 AM
Fred with Morich said this:
I don't feel that there will be anything wrong with it. It really wouldn't fall under a warranty issue now anyways, since it was plugged. If it was a core seperation (which have not been that common at all since we switched to Brunswick), then it would be deemed a defect and we could cover it under warranty..
What else should they investigate?? How is this not caring about their product? He said it would have been replaced if it was deemed a defect, but the ball had already been plugged at that point. I am not trying to defend Morich on this but I still don't see what they did wrong..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that da_n 7 pin (and I am right handed!!)
jkiser01
Edited on 3/31/2005 7:45 AM
Post by: JOE FALCO on March 31, 2005, 07:09:47 AM
quote:
If it was a core separation (which have not been that common at all since we switched to Brunswick), then it would be deemed a defect
I think if I was running the corporation I'd like to know if I sold bowling balls that MIGHT have this problem. I'm not saying ANYONE did something WRONG .. just saying that when a person with experience points out a possible problem .. lights should start BLINKING and someone should say .. lets take a look! That's my opinion!
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Nollster on March 31, 2005, 07:41:18 AM
If it's my company, and someone tells me they bought a used ball and are now having a problem, I don't think I'd investigate it. There's no way of knowing what might have caused a possible core separation. Most likely it was some form of ball abuse, i.e. keeping it in the trunk or baking it. I'm sure if you put up the bucks to buy it new and you were having the same problem, they'd be much more interested in what might be happening.
Post by: JOE FALCO on March 31, 2005, 08:46:40 AM
This is silly I'm not taking sides .. only suggesting THAT ANY COMPANY should check out complaints .. it's one of the TRIGGERS to isolating problems BEFORE they are dumped on your doorstep!
Is it smarter to do a recall or wait till the public nails you to the cross! Guess it's all up to the CEO!
All seem to be highlighting it was a USED BALL .. if the original owner sent it in .. it makes a difference? How can the company distinguish between the original owner and a USED ball owner?
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Edited on 3/31/2005 9:45 AM
Post by: jkiser01 on March 31, 2005, 09:07:20 AM
I do disagree that it doesn't matter if its a used ball.. The manufacturer should be held liable to the original owner if a problem occurs. The original owner will know everything that has happned to that ball since it was first drilled up. There is no way a 2nd or 3rd owner would know the history of the ball, such as how many times its been shipped somewhere, etc.
Also, if the ball had NOT been plugged, I am almost sure they would have requested the ball be sent back in to take a look at..
I do understand what you are saying and respect your opinions as a very knowledgable and respected member of the br.com forum.. I also know Doug Sterner is well respected here and understand his frustrations..
In closing, no one said you are taking sides. I have an opinion, you have an opinion, nollster has an opinion.. thats all they are, opinions..
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If they only made a ball that would carry that da_n 7 pin (and I am right handed!!)
jkiser01
Edited on 3/31/2005 10:03 AM
Post by: Doug Sterner on March 31, 2005, 09:21:12 AM
My first email was full of praise and comments about how impressed I have been by a couple of their products. I named the Pioneer as my goto ball at this time and also stated that I had drilled a couple of Ravages for some people and they were happy with them but have had some trouble with the Total Annihilations I have drilled. It was then when I sent on to tell him that I picked up this used Ravage as a test bed for myself to try some of their "off the beaten track" layouts on. If I liked the layout I'd get one NIB and have at it. If I didn't like the layout I'd plug it and try again.
In this case "used ball" is an extreme overstatement...the ball still had the grease from the layout lines visible when I got it. The owner suffered a back injury and had to stop bowling. From the looks of this ball I will 2nd the owner's statement of the ball having 5 GAMES on it. The ball was immaculate.
A good friend of mine used to work at one of their shops in VA. He wanted to buy an Onslaught when they first came out and was quote a price of $179 with his employee discount! Now we are talking about a Mo produced product being sold to a Mo employee out of a Mo owned shop. C'mon here...
I called around the same time and told him that his core designs intrigued me and I was interested in getting some of his equipment to sell in my shop. I asked if there was a chance I could get a ball at a reduced price to test out for myself and make up my mind. The response I received was "sure, no problem, send us a payment of $145 and we'll send you whatever ball you want from our current catalog." The only problem is that I could get them from my suppliers at $125 at the time.
If I were the owner of a compnay I would definitely want to know if any product I had produced had a defect in it. Especially true since I am not in 100% control of production and I cannot oversee QC on a daily basis.
I am not upset that they refused to do anything, I am upset at the way they handled the situation especially since I am one of their registered Core Tech pro shops as well.
I mean c'mon there Freddie....fingers and thumb touching at the bottom? Don't you think I could see that?
And here's a wickedly intelligent statement if ever I saw one...
"I can say that I have never seen plug run out of another hole, without them being connected"... well duh!!!!
All I know is that Storm, Brunswick, Lane 1, or Track would have handled this much differently. Apparently they are looking more at what theycould possibly lose in terms of sales through my shop than what they have already lost by me buying a 2nd hand ball instead of a new one.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: JOE FALCO on March 31, 2005, 09:30:32 AM
If I was the original owner and dropped the ball from my roof .. would the manufacturer stand by the WARRANTY? Why can't he do the same thing with a USED ball (assuming it has not been plugged)?
Doug points out he was PLUGGING the ball .. it WASN'T complete when he wrote and asked for assistance/direction. I don't think the ball was PLUGGED when he asked his question. Other then the original drilling the ball was NEW!
IN MY OPINION the manufacturer should have looked at the ball. EMPHASIS IN MY OPINION!
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: Bluff on March 31, 2005, 09:39:20 AM
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Honestly I got a lot of balls. No NOT BOWLING BALLS!
Post by: jkiser01 on March 31, 2005, 09:41:35 AM
Doug, I am sorry for your bad experience with Morich.. I have never had any issues with their equipment or customer service..
Joe, I understand what you are saying. I agree with some of it and disagree with other parts, but thats the fun of the forum..
Nobody has to (or most of the time will) agree on everything!!
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If they only made a ball that would carry that da_n 7 pin (and I am right handed!!)
jkiser01
Edited on 3/31/2005 10:37 AM
Edited on 3/31/2005 10:52 AM
Post by: Brickguy221 on March 31, 2005, 09:46:17 AM
quote:
Doug I have had several similar instances with Brunswick equipment, all having the same problem you are addressing. I drilled in the neighborhood of 20+ Blazing infernos and everyone I drilled remotely close to the pin I came up with a void ( air pocket)
I don't know about Brunswick balls, but this is apparently a common problem with Buzzsaws as I had 5 of them and 4 of them had a void like this. (finger hole was within 1-2-3/4 inch from the Pin.
--------------------
Owner of a 129 game bowled with a Brunswick Impulse Zone.
Post by: Old Coach on March 31, 2005, 09:50:01 AM
What most of everyone's argument has centered around is the replacement of the ball. I think if I ran the business and had a pro shop that was selling my product I would certainly replace it to keep good graces. Lets face it a lot shops get free balls all the time based on what they sell.
THE BEST ADVERTISEMENT IS WORD OF MOUTH OF A HAPPY CUSTOMER! Isn't that what ballreview is all about.
Post by: REVOLUTIONS PS on March 31, 2005, 10:29:36 AM
Doug...do you always have to deal with the manufacturers?
Post by: legend4life95 on March 31, 2005, 10:36:53 AM
quote:
I don't know about Brunswick balls, but this is apparently a common problem with Buzzsaws as I had 5 of them and 4 of them had a void like this. (finger hole was within 1-2-3/4 inch from the Pin.
I have a lane1 SCB with a void in the ring finger hole. It is a single drill but the pin is about 1/4 or 1/2 inch to the right of the ring finger. Would lane 1 replace this? Just curious.
--------------------
****Kids in the back seat cause accidents; accidents in the back seat cause kids.****
Post by: Doug Sterner on March 31, 2005, 11:51:51 AM
Why does Brunswick have this problem and what are they doing to remedy this? I feel the problem is the short pin they use. The pin only goes through the outercoverstock on most of the balls. It is not like a Storm ball where the pin goes all of the way into the core. I feel this is a problem. I have found toothpicks stuck under the pins of some Buzzsaws I have drilled and have found the same on some Infernos, Monsters etc. Maybe this is the real reason why they saaay "do not drill within 1" of the pin." I'd also venture a guess as to the fact that this is the reason for cracking around the pin. I have never had the pin crack out of a Storm or Ebonite ball but have seen it often on Brunswick stuff. Peculiar....
Anyway guys I didn't want to stir up a ton of controversy here but I just find it odd that a company who sells bowling balls to pro shops would treat a pro shop in such a manner. I mean if it was not for pro shops selling their stuff Mo would not be in business.
Legend4Life95...yes Lane 1 will stand behind that ball if there is a problem with it cracking out and such. I do not think they will do anything if there is not a performance degrading flaw. The void you are seeing is the space left empty by Brunswick between the core and the pin.
Revolutions....the only time I go through my suppliers are when the manufacturers tell me to. I just had a Trauma Response warranty'd by Storm and I had to send it back to them direct. Track wants you to return the ball to the supplier where you purchased it...that's tough especially if you deal with 3-4 suppliers. They want to do this so that they can deal with a pallet of balls rather than a single ball when they get shipped back but the turn around time is significantly slower.
I should have taken pictures of what I had after the plug dried. I never even took the finger inserts out of the ball before I plugged the thumb so I had a middle finger hole with insert installed that was full of ball plug. Not to mention the fact that i had a countertop covered in ball plug.
I am going to redrill hte bal lfor myself and go on with things. I just won't be pushing their products to anyone. I had them on display in the shop but I will not have anymore.
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: ashzero on March 31, 2005, 01:48:25 PM
Post by: bowler257628 on April 01, 2005, 10:44:45 AM
--------------------
Track
Evolutionary. Revolutionary.
Cody
Post by: Juggernaut on April 01, 2005, 11:02:20 AM
Doesn't Mo-Rich warranty their stuff against MANUFACTURER defects? Plain and simple, that is what this apears to be.
Regardless of who owns the ball, it appears to have had a flaw caused by the manufacturing process and thus should still be under warranty. I don't remember seeing anywhere that it is only warranteed to the ORIGINAL OWNER, just that it is warranteed for a specific time frame.
Not taking sides on this issue either way, but a warranty is a warranty, regardless of the ownership of the ball.
And really, how are you supposed to find a cracked/seperated core without pouring something into the holes? Who has time to X-ray a bowling ball prior to plugging it? And that still might not find the flaw.
If the guy is that knowledgable, he should know that the ball defect was found DURING the process of being plugged, and existed before the plug work was done.
Right or wrong, I think the ball should've and could've been warranted.
P.S. I had a brunswick ball (inferno) crack on me. I bought it used, but when I contacted brunswick, they told me they would warrant it, but it turned out that the ball was too old and OUT OF WARRANTY. I am sure that if they would have worked with Doug, even if the ball wasn't replaced, Doug would still have good feelings about things, much as I do about brunswick. They treated Doug like a simpleton, and I think that would have gotten to me, just as it did Doug.
--------------------
Brunswick will soon own the world.
You must face it.
There is no escape.
Post by: Doug Sterner on April 01, 2005, 11:30:59 AM
with a 5" span and reverse pitch in both the fingers and thumb there is 100% no way they could have met in the ball. In fact if you would run some geometrical analysis you could see the only place where there could be a meeting of the holes would be OUTSIDE the ball.
Now another question....I ask any of you with access to an old ball and plug to do this for me....
put the thumbhole up towards the ceiling and pour it full of ball plug then report back to me.
I want to see how many of you have the plug run out of the fingerholes.
I'll be willing to issue a personal apology to every single person on this site if more than 15% (allowing for a 10% error deviation) of the balls tested have plug run out the fingerholes.
Any more than that and I say MoRich had an obvious problem with the ball and they refused to take care of a 5 game old ball with a separated core...
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: Doug Sterner on April 01, 2005, 11:33:05 AM
--------------------
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: Strapper_Squared on April 01, 2005, 11:47:30 AM
personally, I would reply back to their email (including a link to this post) and cordially remind them that "word of mouth" is the best or worst form of advertisement.... and based upon this, I for one, do not plan of buying or recommending MoRich equipment to anyone.
good luck doug!
S^2
--------------------
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-Strapper Squared
NFL Draft coming up soon... who would you take?
I vote for this guy:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/draft05/columns/story?columnist=mortensen_chris&id=2025109
Post by: Steven on April 01, 2005, 12:04:30 PM
quote:
All I know is that Storm, Brunswick, Lane 1, or Track would have handled this much differently
When you peal away all the noise here, the above statement by Doug defines what this issue is really about. The issue comes down to customer service and the way that Doug was treated more than the specifics of the warranty.
I've had a few problems with Ebonite and Lane#1 equipment where in pure terms, the companies could have blown me off if they wanted to. They didn't, and as a result, I continue to be a loyal repeat customer to both outfits.
It's a matter of attitude, and MoRich blew the situation.
--------------------
"You want the truth? -- You can't handle the truth! "
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 01, 2005, 05:04:58 PM
You say that the WARRANTY is void once you attempt to plug the ball (I say attempt in this case because I think Doug indicated the PLUG material run right out of the ball, therefore the ball was NOT PLUGGED at the time of the initial email). My question is .. is it necessary every time you attempt to plug a ball that you check for core separation? From what I understand Doug did not know the problem until the PLUGGING MATERIAL ran out to the floor. Should Doug be doing some preliminary inspection of every ball he PLUGS? If yes, what should be done?
Hope my question makes sense!
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Post by: arcright7 on April 01, 2005, 06:49:57 PM
..........ARC7
Post by: Doug Sterner on April 01, 2005, 09:32:47 PM
poured the thumbhole full... came back and noticed that the material had run out so I found where it was coming from and ran a piece of duct tape across the fingerholes to keep in whatever else was there and prevent it from running out all over the ball...
at that time I did wipe the ball off and filled the thumbhole up with more plug material
since then I have plugged the rest of the holes and am getting on with things. there is still some area on the ball with plug material on it so I'll need to resurface the ball and get that off.
oh well......too bad too I really like the looks of the Total Annihilation and teh Ravage on our lanes and I was looking forward to drawing more business by throwing this ball but now I dunno.....
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on April 02, 2005, 12:37:54 AM
I have bought many used balls online, I never once checked it for a core seperation before plugging.
Just my 2 cents.
Post by: ozsweet on April 02, 2005, 06:53:48 AM
1) Contact the seller and let him know the ball was damaged and return it for a refund (not sure of the terms of the sale but most states have implied warranties);
2) It seems Morich would profit more from taking a different approach since I wouldn't think this would happen all too often.
Conclusion: I don't think Morich is wrong, but I think they have acted unwisely. (PS - try to work up the ladder if you still feel they should warrant the ball. Companies have a way of reconsidering when you are persistent)
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I am my only ignored user
Post by: 1fife on April 02, 2005, 08:52:59 AM
a pro shop at times can sell any ball he wants to a customer.
As a result in this i wouldnt carry any of their balls or drill any more
there loss
Post by: Doug Sterner on April 02, 2005, 11:29:40 AM
Without cutting the ball in 1/2 or drilling out what I have deemed to be a near 100% perfect color match on the purple in the fingers, I cannot say for sure but that'/s what it looked like.
My guess still is that since the mass bias was drilled into and so was the pin, the holes underneath each connected in a void near the core and caused this.
Since the void is now full of plug, there should not be a problem. But if there is I will most certainly be contacting them yet again.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: stanski on April 02, 2005, 07:58:31 PM
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stanski
Post by: Doug Sterner on April 02, 2005, 08:08:33 PM
Why buy a used ball? read my posts and you'll find an explanation.
you are not worth my time so simply stay out of my business.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Edited on 4/2/2005 9:12 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 02, 2005, 08:10:08 PM
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O
Edited on 4/2/2005 9:16 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on April 02, 2005, 08:15:24 PM
And I'll say it again...I am not upset about the fact that the ball had the problem. I am upset at how the company handled the situation. They gave an explanation so simplistic it was ridiculous to me.
I have fully plugged tha ball and am simply awaiting some time to throw it on a Haus machine to get rid of the mess caused by the leak.
As I said just upset with their attempt at an excuse for how it happened.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: Stan on April 02, 2005, 08:41:26 PM
I am new to this forum and also own a Pro Shop. I understands Doug's concern about customer relations, but since the ball was used the manufacturer is off the hook. BUT it would have been great customer relations, if they replaced the ball. Guess MORICH might be afraid of setting a precedent.
Guess when you buy used "Buyer Beware" !!!!
Post by: Doug Sterner on April 02, 2005, 08:58:59 PM
As I have said I am upset at the way they handled the situation. Unlike what themezz has been saying I was not looking for a free ball. I was hoping they would at least want to look at the ball and see if there was a potential problem. I have no problem throwing plugged equipment so I'll still most likely drill it throw it until lane 1 comes out with another solid resin in the hooky hooky category ;-)
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
Post by: stanski on April 02, 2005, 09:13:18 PM
quote:
stanski...there is nothing in any of the paperwork that came in the box about drilling within 1" of the pin voiding the warranty.
And I'll say it again...I am not upset about the fact that the ball had the problem. I am upset at how the company handled the situation. They gave an explanation so simplistic it was ridiculous to me.
I have fully plugged tha ball and am simply awaiting some time to throw it on a Haus machine to get rid of the mess caused by the leak.
As I said just upset with their attempt at an excuse for how it happened.
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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Although a small elite group, the bond among fellows can never be broken...FOS members rejoice!
As I understand it, almost every manufacturer has this somewhere in their warranty information. I have seen morich boxes, and do recall seeing some type of warranty like this on them, however my memory can be bad.
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stanski
Post by: arcright7 on April 02, 2005, 10:10:58 PM
I am sure Morich would have wanted you to pay the shipping both ways to send them the ball for examination anyway. This is also why it was foolish for them to not at least look at it. Doesn't cost them a cent, (provided no defect is found) yet it would have made you feel as if you were treated more humanely.
As you said, being that the holes are now completely plugged I don't know what more they could do without disecting it. You could gamble and do this yourself and send the problem section to them for confirmation (if found that is). Or if the ball seems to perform well just go with it as is. Who knows you might be able to recover your expenses through side pot winnings. If the core completely separates or cracks through the surface you will end up with the same option anyway right? I wish you well, hopefully it will all work out for the best.
sincerly.....ARC7
Post by: sdbowler on April 02, 2005, 10:35:30 PM
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BRUNSWICK