Post by: charlest on November 14, 2005, 09:46:41 AM
OK. Now I have drilled 2 brand new S&As. One was drilled 3 times, the 2nd was drilled twice. 5 different drillings, 2 - 3 different surface changes per drilling. 4 -5 different lane surfaces (wood and synthetics), with 2 - 3 different oil amounts AND patterns per lane surface.
So I can honestly say this ball rolls, goes into a roll SUPER early unless a true high gloss polish, usable only on light - medium light oil patterns, is placed on this ball. Every other surface/drilling combination results in an early rolling, old fashioned curve ball reaction. Unless I hit dead flush or am playing an extreme outside angle (hitting 3/5 board), there is zero pin action and small carry power. The ball's coverstock (Activcator+) and my fingers provide the only force capable of overcoming this ball's overall reaction - super early roll.
How anyone gets backend reaction is beyond my powers of observation! I have spent more money on this ball and re-drillings than on any other ball EVER, between new ball purchases, re-drilling, time, driving to the driller, etc, my expenses must be in the $600 - $1000 range. Thus I will, more than likely, not experiment with another Morich ball again. Maybe its requrements are just beyond the level of my expertise. Certainly, others seem to be very happy with their S&As. My Intense Inferno with the same coverstock has been wonderful. Every surface change and every re-drilling has provided a new level of usage. I'm on my 3rd drilling of my original II and I still love it.
Heck, Mo Pinel, himself, in person, drilled my first Shock and Awe, after analyzing my delivery and release. Still didn't work.
If nothing else, this is final proof that not all balls work for all deliveries.
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Bowling: Wish I could help me as much as I seem to help others ...
Life ... is what you make of it. No, really!
Edited on 11/15/2005 5:03 PM
Post by: charlest on November 14, 2005, 06:41:42 PM
quote:
But I did think the coverstock on the S&A was the same as the Absolute Inferno, not the Intense, but what do I know.....
They're the same coverstock: Activator+, a pearl resin that acts more like a particle pearl. just the surface preparation is slightly different, the Absolute being slightly more of a matte finish, while the Intense is more polished, IN BOX CONDITION. Both are easily modifiable.
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Bowling: Wish I could help me as much as I seem to help others ...
Life ... is what you make of it. No, really!
Edited on 11/14/2005 7:33 PM
Post by: Kanazteck on November 14, 2005, 07:12:31 PM
TA, Onslaught i just could get them to work for me TA just rolled to early for me so with that core being weaker than the newer core i wont drill up the new stuff the only effective drill pattern i put on the onslaught was putting the mass bias in the track
my pap is 5 over 1/8 up very similar to yours
and in my opinion mo's new stuff is better for spinners and lower trackers
however the old morich stuff with weaker spin times
colossus i absolutely loved (gettin 2 more)
hercules just redrilled my friends is amazing
3d offset hi rev also rolled beautifully for me
Edited on 11/14/2005 8:06 PM
Post by: Bluff on November 14, 2005, 07:15:08 PM
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Honestly I got a lot of balls. No NOT BOWLING BALLS! Bowling with 99.99% Luck and 0.01 % skill!!
Post by: Kanazteck on November 14, 2005, 07:21:05 PM
every spinner/lower tracker that starting throwing the new morich stuff has absolutely loved it
so i recommend every spinner/low tracker to try morich it really is designed for you
ill stick to his older stuff and symetrical equipment
Post by: charlest on November 14, 2005, 07:31:00 PM
quote:
charlest ive had similar problems as you with mos newer equipment
I have no problem with newer equipment. My Track Solution PP Ex and my Legends Masterpiece and LM Kong and other balls work great. I think it is just the Vaguard core that may not be suitable to my delivery.
quote:
TA, Onslaught i just could get them to work for me TA just rolled to early for me so with that core being weaker than the newer core i wont drill up the new stuff the only effective drill pattern i put on the onslaught was putting the mass bias in the track
I couldn't get a Hercules to wrok either; yet my Labyrinth was a great ball for me.
quote:
my pap is 5 over 1/8 up very similar to yours
and in my opinion mo's new stuff is better for spinners and lower trackers
however the old morich stuff with weaker spin times
colossus i absolutely loved (gettin 2 more)
hercules just redrilled my friends is amazing
3d offset hi rev also rolled beautifully for me
Edited on 11/14/2005 8:06 PM
Funny, my Hammer Truck is also a great ball; incredible backend for an oiler.
Saw the Rack also guessed that people with small amounts of "up" in their PAP measurements may have trouble with the Vanguard core. Quite possible.
Asi es la vida!
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Bowling: Wish I could help me as much as I seem to help others ...
Life ... is what you make of it. No, really!
Post by: LuckyLefty on November 14, 2005, 08:53:31 PM
So far I've drilled a Sahara with MO and a Ravage.
Sahara was early roll and the Ravage I put mass bias almost on thumb.
Absolutely NO midlane.
I think that if one drills a Morich ball of this series and redrills...there is a chance that they important parts of the core are destroyed.
This TA is NIB... if it doesn't work after some surface tweaks(which are often necessary) I may try a WMB since I've seen this work great in my house!!! Also the TA works great in my house!
I'm drilling 4 1/2 (pin on top of and touching top corner of ring and mass bias out 2 inches from grip centerline.
I will be surprised if this does not work for me as I've seen this ball work really well for lots of guys!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS I'll get back by end of the week with updates.
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year! Don't bowl me the second two games though! (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
Post by: chun914 on November 14, 2005, 09:38:24 PM
May be i've little more tilt. Me also did not have a good experience with the shock and awe.Over/Under no matter how i throw it.
But the TA was a great ball for me.
Now working very well with lanemaster's equipment. Masterpiece,Yeah Baby, Guaranteed. And also RAMPAGE,
Post by: Jeffrevs on November 15, 2005, 05:20:05 AM
quote:
Maybe its requrements are just beyond the level of my expertise. Certainly, others seem to be very happy with their S&As.
charlest, please!! come on! If I can throw thow them ?!? ANYONE CAN!!
Sorry to hear the bad news!! I liked mine very much, but just didn't "NEED" it in my bag right now...so I sold it to someone who could
. I love the reaction of mine. Got thru the heads nice, with just enough midlane to cover my mistakes and depending on the backends...this thing could move!Sent you a message re: Hercules
quote:
These balls just do not match up very well to many many people. In my days around the pro shop many customers have come back and wanted another ball after drilling a Mo ball.
Interesting..honeslty.....because King of the mill drills HUNDREDS of Mo balls per season...HUNDREDS.....and his "happines" rate is near perfect!
Granted....Mo's stuff takes someone who knows what their doing! It's been said a million times on this forum..."you can't just punch holes in a Mo ball". BUT,...even then...you're going to get match-up issues...as with any ball maker.
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."
Post by: charlest on November 15, 2005, 05:31:57 AM
quote:
Charlest, i've the same PAP location, ball speed, rev rate, side roll as you.
May be i've little more tilt. Me also did not have a good experience with the shock and awe.Over/Under no matter how i throw it.
But the TA was a great ball for me.
Now working very well with lanemaster's equipment. Masterpiece,Yeah Baby, Guaranteed. And also RAMPAGE,
I'm using a wide variety of balls right now: Lanemasters, Track, Brunswick, Columbia, Lane#1, Visionary, etc; some are older balls, some are newer. All are fine on some conditon.
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Bowling: Wish I could help me as much as I seem to help others ...
Life ... is what you make of it. No, really!
Post by: charlest on November 15, 2005, 05:41:29 AM
quote:
Sorry to hear the bad news!! I liked mine very much, but just didn't "NEED" it in my bag right now...so I sold it to someone who could
On virtually every condition, mine was ALL midlane. Backend was a mild curve.
quote:
Sent you a message re: Hercules
Haven't received a new PM from you.
quote:
These balls just do not match up very well to many many people. In my days around the pro shop many customers have come back and wanted another ball after drilling a Mo ball.
Interesting..honeslty.....because King of the mill drills HUNDREDS of Mo balls per season...HUNDREDS.....and his "happines" rate is near perfect!
Granted....Mo's stuff takes someone who knows what their doing! It's been said a million times on this forum..."you can't just punch holes in a Mo ball". BUT,...even then...you're going to get match-up issues...as with any ball maker.
- Jeffrevs
[/quote]
Given the fact that I have bought 2 brand new ones, trying 5 different pin placements and 3 different MB placements, I am not sure that even kotm would have found a different drilling that would work for me on my conditons. The one time it did work well was with a high gloss polish.
In any case, I have sold the newer one with 2 drillings and won't even offer the 1st one for sale as it has 3 drillings (2 plugs of 3-4 holes each). It's basically a boat anchor now.
For reasons unknown I still get excellent results with my Intense Inferno with the same coverstock as the S&A and will be drilling up a Smoking Inferno to see what that does.
FYI there's a whole bunch of people using MoRich balls in my main house now with good results. I am not denigrating the balls; just documenting my travails. It just doesn't make sense for me to manipulate them any more for me, as it is just too time and money consuming with little positive results.
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Bowling: Wish I could help me as much as I seem to help others ...
Life ... is what you make of it. No, really!
Edited on 11/15/2005 1:56 PM
Post by: Jeffrevs on November 15, 2005, 05:55:21 AM
quote:
FYI there's a whole bunch of people using MoRich balls in my main house now with good results. I am not denigrating the balls; just documenting my travails. It just doesn't make sense for me to manipulate them any more for me, as it is just too time and money consuming with little positive results.
Oh no!!! Totally understood.....didn't take it that way at all,...and...it didnt' come across that way either!!
We all appreciate the comments and info! I'm sure I'm not speaking alone when I say "I read just about ANYTHING you have to say because of the knowledge that spews from thou!!
"I agree....enough is enough......again...sorry to hear all that!
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."
Post by: Jeffrevs on November 15, 2005, 11:58:07 AM
quote:
Jeff, no disrespect to you but by your profile you only have 2 700's in your entire bowling career. Your not exactly wacking them with your Mo Rich balls.
First of all...no discrespect taken....even if the comment has NOTHING to do with anything.....but anyway...
My "career" started in 2001 .....I've basically bowled off an on my entire life but never got really into it until the fall of 01.
Therefore....I'll take my 2 7's.
Who said I WAS whacking them w/ my Morich balls?!? I didn't? Last Thursday I had a nice 278, ....but I'm below average as of now. Remember STR, you should know this...regardless of your ball manufacturer affiliation, or like...it's the same thing...."it's not the arrow,...it's the indian"! And in my case...I'm a hack! Is that a good enough explanation for you?
quote:
I understand your love for the afro puff wonder , but IMHO there is so much more knowledge to be learned from Rick Benoit instead of Mo ho ho..
Benoit is the true guru of "bowling"
Love for Mo ?! Will you please show me where I have this affinity for Mo?!
I like his equipment...and I probably have one of the best ball drillers in the country!!! I'm a lucky guy!! But....love for Mo ?!?!?!? [rolleyes]
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."
Edited on 11/15/2005 12:57 PM
Post by: azus on November 15, 2005, 12:03:54 PM
Post by: scotts33 on November 15, 2005, 12:07:33 PM
quote:
And in my case...I'm a hack!
Me too Revs. Join the club!
Scott
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Scott
Post by: Jeffrevs on November 15, 2005, 12:10:29 PM
quote:quote:
And in my case...I'm a hack!
Me too Revs. Join the club!
Scott
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Scott
Yeah...I throw MoRich and like it...and I'm a bowling God !!
RIGHT ?!?!? Did you see me write this anywhere!? Or....say that Morich makes you a better bowler ?!? Hmm ?!?!? If so, please find it!
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."
Post by: scotts33 on November 15, 2005, 12:22:39 PM
quote:
A hack is somebody who bowls in one center, bowls well in that center but won't leave the nest because they can't bowl well anywhere else. If you can get them to leave the nest and they shoot 550 they will moan and complain instead of trying to figure out how to bowl better the next time they are there. They also refuse to learn anything new, but think their high scores make them the best bowler in the area.
I bowl in two houses for league. Bowl tourny's all over mostly on tougher conditions mostly sport or flatter. I have an open mind use lots of different kinds of equipment.....BUT I am still a HACK!
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Scott
Post by: Jeffrevs on November 15, 2005, 12:30:41 PM
quote:
I wouldn't say your a hack...I'd say that your a player that's learning and getting new experiences every day...thefore somebody who is willing to learn and get better is not a hack.
Hey..what do ya know....I'M NOT A HACK....I guess!
quote:
One day Mo's hair will stop hypnotizeing you and you break away from the dark side!
Whatever
quote:
I will say that you do have a love affair with the hair. As soon as somebody posts anything negative about Mo ho ho, your useally the first one to the rescue!
whatever again......last time...not Mo....his equipment matches up w/ me nicely...what can I say
BTW...also,....if you noticed...usually I'm defending/clarifying some sort of symetrical vs. asymetrical post ....
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."
Edited on 11/15/2005 1:26 PM
Post by: charlest on November 15, 2005, 01:09:03 PM
quote:
One day Mo's hair will stop hypnotizeing you and you break away from the dark side!
I will say that you do have a love affair with the hair. As soon as somebody posts anything negative about Mo ho ho, your useally the first one to the rescue!
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Bowling Sucks....
Keith,
To paint a slightly more honest picture of Jeff, I think he's in love, NOT with Mo, but with what kotm (King of the Mill) has been able to do for Jeff with the excellent way in which he drills Jeff's MoRich balls.
To be honest, if I lived not too far away from where kotm works, I'd be more than tempted to see what he could do for me. Seeing as how we're about 1200 miles away, I'll keep pluging along as I have been.
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Bowling: Wish I could help me as much as I seem to help others ...
Life ... is what you make of it. No, really!
Edited on 11/15/2005 2:01 PM
Post by: Jeffrevs on November 15, 2005, 02:36:39 PM
quote:
I would go see that guy too...
I'm just kidding around with Jeff...I know he is a good guy and a good BR member...
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Bowling Sucks....
Sweet! all is fair in love and ballreviews!
charlest...don't tell kotm!!!
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JEFF
"...each anothers audience outside the gilded cage.."
Post by: Ragnar on November 15, 2005, 02:42:54 PM
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"How can you govern a country which has 246 varieties of cheese?" - Charles De Gaulle
"Government is the Entertainment Division of the military-industrial complex." - Frank Zappa
Post by: Strapper_Squared on November 15, 2005, 02:45:22 PM
) throw MoRich equipment with success... I don't seem to remember any of them being spinners... saw a bunch of Total S&A's... and few S&A's, a wmb, and a few saharas...everything did seem to rev up fairly early (except for the bowlers with zero hand)... but no one seemed to had bad hit/carry.S^2
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-Strapper Squared
Alias Generator (http://"http://gorillamask.net/ronmexico/")
Post by: Strider on November 15, 2005, 03:42:27 PM
I wonder if the speed/rev rate numbers in your profile are accurate. Ron Clifton has thrown my ball and it absolutely pukes on him. His rev rate is dominant over his ball speed, so it burns up between the heads and midlane and dies an ugly death.
Either you don't match up with the ball at all, or maybe you got two blems? Did you buy them at the same time and from the same place? If not, it would be unlikely that they came from the same batch.
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Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: Kanazteck on November 15, 2005, 03:46:08 PM
i was saying you might have the same problem i was having with the new morich equipment (vanguard and onslaught/mayhem/ta/ravage core)
just had to clarify
MO also laid out every morich ball ive owned
Edited on 11/15/2005 4:37 PM
Post by: charlest on November 15, 2005, 03:51:28 PM
quote:
I wouldn't say low trackers/spinners are the only ones who match up with Mo equipment.. I was at a college tournament this past weekend and watched many guys (and a few girls
S^2
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-Strapper Squared
Alias Generator (http://"http://gorillamask.net/ronmexico/")
It is more than likely not related to spinners and low track, per se. With the Vanguard's very early roll, it probably benefits most those with a higher tilt and probably those with a higher rotation angle in their release.
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Bowling: Wish I could help me as much as I seem to help others ...
Life ... is what you make of it. No, really!
Post by: charlest on November 15, 2005, 03:57:26 PM
Thanks for the offer; you know I don't normally hesitate to call you. We've talked before, long and hard. To be honest, I'm kind of tired of this experiment, AT THIS POINT IN TIME. The planets are not aligned; my house is in the crapper right now.
I've got a few other experiments thatI;ve got to take off theback burner right now.I do have one S&A left; just sold the other one. I'll try some surface adjustments, when it's turn next comes up. I'll report them, if I can remember.
Then I'll check with you on the details and see what adjustments we can come up with. I suspect it will be after New Years; so, don't hold your breath. Thanks again.--------------------
Bowling: Wish I could help me as much as I seem to help others ...
Life ... is what you make of it. No, really!
Post by: LuckyLefty on November 15, 2005, 11:48:29 PM
I finally picked out a drilling for a MO ball that was a Virgin...the T and A and I know I'm going to like itafter a quick one game test!
As is my opinionn of all these non particle particle coverstocks...It has a touch less than a similarly drilled reactive at the back but still plenty! (I believe the original literature on all of these slightly less reactive reactives like the Infernos, and the Shock and awes and the Vertigos.
These balls hook more in the oil and just a touch less off the break on the dry!
Perfect for smoothing over under or perfect for carrydown if not severe!
This ball revs heavy like all mo balls but continues to turn and increase turn and hits!
I also did a few tweaks with my friends too strongly drilled(3 3/8 X strong MB on lighter volume oil) shock and awe which would sort of straighten out for him at back and then not hit.
I applied Track Magic clean and polish(1500 grit polish) and also tweaked his span which was a little jammed up causing his thumb and fingers to almost look like they were both in the ball at release.
He was killin it!
I believe maybe these balls are tough to redrill because weight taken out of top of core seems to be critical. And I kept getting balls with 2 to 2 1/2 inch deep fingerholes for some reason from the used market!
I think I am going to collect some real high scores from this TA. Drilled 4 1/2 X 1 inch from thumb MB on positive side! Pin up 2 1/2 inches!
Still a heavy emphasis on midlane with these balls but plenty of backend now on these two one time drilled balls!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS oh, I'm a high tracker with moderate tilt and strong side roll!
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year! Don't bowl me the second two games though! (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
Edited on 11/16/2005 0:40 AM
Edited on 11/16/2005 7:35 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on November 18, 2005, 08:49:27 AM
TA.
For today's shots on synthetics I can see this cover really handling fresh beautifully.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year! Don't bowl me the second two games though! (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)